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Wilkins1

Will I need to re-winterize?

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Wilkins1

I winterized cooling system in my 2007 vlx several days ago but would like to open the system to replace thermostat and check trans cooler as the boat was running about ten degrees warmer than usual at the end of season. I winterized by running boat until warm and then introducing antifreeze through perko fitting until coming out exaust. Any advice appreciated.

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shawndoggy

re-winterize?  You need to actually winterize.  Drain the block and be done with it.

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Idaorr
1 hour ago, Wilkins1 said:

I winterized by running boat until warm and then introducing antifreeze through perko fitting until coming out exaust

Is this not “a way” to winterize? I’ve been doing this on every boat I’ve owned for the past 20 yrs., and have had no problems.

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MLA

Glad you have never experienced an issue, but here is the concern with not draining the system of water first. The marine/rv antifreeze is intended to be used at 100%. When you introduce the A/F into a full system, a good portion of the solution will divert to the exhaust. The cool A/F can cause the t-stat to start to close, further diverting the incoming solution. What does make into the block, is mixing with the existing water, diluting its strength.  

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granddaddy55
8 hours ago, Idaorr said:

Is this not “a way” to winterize? I’ve been doing this on every boat I’ve owned for the past 20 yrs., and have had no problems.

Should be except possibly  for a heater core under dash without a retrofit to push more water to it at idle if you cut it off , if it comes out quickly maybe it doesn’t get to every piece of drivetrain , obviously the block and exhaust potions are good

i have a stern Perko flush , we really don’t need to winterize cause we tend not to lose power on the few cold nights we have and I gave generators I can set up if it goes out 

https://www.overtons.com/product/details?pdesc=Yourself-Boat-Winterizer-Kit-with-Antifreeze&i=309263

does this work well to attach to the perko? Seems convenient and seems to me if you ran a few higher rpms with the lever not in gear and it would get to the heater core

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granddaddy55
17 minutes ago, MLA said:

Glad you have never experienced an issue, but here is the concern with not draining the system of water first. The marine/rv antifreeze is intended to be used at 100%. When you introduce the A/F into a full system, a good portion of the solution will divert to the exhaust. The cool A/F can cause the t-stat to start to close, further diverting the incoming solution. What does make into the block, is mixing with the existing water, diluting its strength.  

With the device from overtones above once the engine comes to temp with s long enough idle you can then introduce the AF.  That way block would receive AF , 

you sure mixed AF water wouldn’t protect against freeze?

with warm  up lever higher rpms it should get ti heater core as well  

you could keep the tank inside over night to room temp and I wonder would that turn the stat off after engine is well warm? 

And im sure it’s what can be dumped on ground by rain drain with no issues for law and environment , with 6 gallons, it must get everywhere if you run the warm up lever after its already warm

i have the transom perko flush from factory real convenient

Edited by granddaddy55

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MLA
13 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

you sure mixed AF water wouldn’t protect against freeze?

As stated, the winterizing A/F is intended to be used at 100%. When diluted, its freeze point is raised. Can you predict what the water to A/F ratio is going to be once complete, and therefore gauge the protection point? This is consideration. 

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minnmarker
1 hour ago, granddaddy55 said:

Should be except possibly  for a heater core under dash without a retrofit to push more water to it at idle if you cut it off , if it comes out quickly maybe it doesn’t get to every piece of drivetrain , obviously the block and exhaust potions are good

i have a stern Perko flush , we really don’t need to winterize cause we tend not to lose power on the few cold nights we have and I gave generators I can set up if it goes out 

https://www.overtons.com/product/details?pdesc=Yourself-Boat-Winterizer-Kit-with-Antifreeze&i=309263

does this work well to attach to the perko? Seems convenient and seems to me if you ran a few higher rpms with the lever not in gear and it would get to the heater core

That's the same device I've been using for 10+ years on outboards, I/O's (with muffs), and my 2005 LSV (with T in the raw water intake line) - but I do drain the heads and block of the I/O's and inboards after the antifreeze flush just to make sure.  FWIW, it seems like pure pink stuff (antifreeze) comes out of the block drains when I finish up so it's probably not necessary to drain the block.  I just fill up the box (4 gallons) and warm up the engine on hose water then move the switch to antifreeze and let it all run into the engine.  Make sure you close the raw water intake valve on the boat after you back flush a bit of antifreeze through the V drive so all your antifreeze doesn't end up on the ground!  Shut engine off when the box is empty.  Run shower, if you have one, till pink stuff comes out.  I don't have a heater.

And it gets real cold in Northwestern Wisconsin!

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Idaorr

(https://www.overtons.com/product/details?pdesc=Yourself-Boat-Winterizer-Kit-with-Antifreeze&i=309263)

This is the item I use. Hook up a hose on one end, the other I don’t have a perko flush so I took a piece of radiator hose and adapted it to accept  a garden hose. I remove the lake intake hose from the drivetrain and attach modified radiator hose, turn water on, let motor get to 160 degrees open valve on the 5 gallons of -50 RV antifreeze, turn on shower till pink comes out. I run till all 5 gallons are gone, shut her down and call it good. I reverse flush in the spring to remove antifreeze before putting in lake.

I have tried the remove all the necessary hoses and plugs before, but a guy my size doesn’t fit in those places to easily. I have also helped a buddy with his SAN 230 put his hose back (loose hose clamp)on after a dealer dewinterized his boat. Those things can pump a lot of water into the bilge in a short amount of time and got a little scary.

How diluted would -50 antifreeze have to get before you would worry about it? It gets cold in Idaho but not constantly in the negatives.

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Wilkins1

Not to be picky but no one has actually answered the original question.

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justgary

I think @shawndoggy did in the first reply.  His suggestion is to just drain the block by pulling the plugs and the crossover hose.  If you do that, you can change the thermostat while it is empty. 

I say you can pull the thermostat whenever you want.  If you have enough antifreeze in the block, losing a little won't hurt since it won't freeze anyway. 

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granddaddy55
14 hours ago, minnmarker said:

 

(with T in the raw water intake line)

 

 

That's the same device I've b Make sure you close the raw water intake valve on the boat after you back flush a bit of antifreeze through the V drive so all your antifreeze doesn't end up on the ground

I have the transom perko flush as my entry point, what does “close the raw water intake valve “ have to do with preventing water exiting through the cutlass bearing, OR how does the v drive let all the AF onto the ground -not understanding 

any difference between your T entry point and my transom flush ?   other than that plastic valve in the raw water line after raw water pump ( I think) that I believe makes the transom flush work as the entry point 

And what does backflush mean, since it flows normally through the T or my transom flush ?

and the idea from @MLA that the AF would be cold enough to shut off thermostat to a very warm engine snd therefore not reach the block must not happen then and if that’s the case and the 4 or more gallons go in then the water must be forced out and be less total system volume than the AF tank size and therefore be virtually as you said pure coolant 

still wondering if you ran a higher rpm than idle warm up lever during the AF introduction ,  wouldn’t the heater get it’s AF replacement fluid for its water?

Edited by granddaddy55

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minnmarker
9 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

I have the transom perko flush as my entry point, what does “close the raw water intake valve “ have to do with preventing water exiting through the cutlass bearing, OR how does the v drive let all the AF onto the ground -not understanding 

any difference between your T entry point and my transom flush ?   other than that plastic valve in the raw water line after raw water pump ( I think) that I believe makes the transom flush work as the entry point 

And what does backflush mean, since it flows normally through the T or my transom flush ?

and the idea from @MLA that the AF would be cold enough to shut off thermostat to a very warm engine snd therefore not reach the block must not happen then and if that’s the case and the 4 or more gallons go in then the water must be forced out and be less total system volume than the AF tank size and therefore be virtually as you said pure coolant 

still wondering if you ran a higher rpm than idle warm up lever during the AF introduction ,  wouldn’t the heater get it’s AF replacement fluid for its water?

My T is on the line from the V drive to the raw water pump.  Upstream of the T is the V drive and then the thru hull (with valve).  So if I just run antifreeze into the T it can go backwards through the V drive and out the thru hull - which you want to do for a sec to get the water out of the V drive, then shut it off.  The antifreeze I use (propylene glycol) is non toxic so I don't care if a bit gets on the ground.  Nothing to do with the cutlass bearing.

Yes, my T is just that, a simple T with no back flow preventer like your transom flush probably has.

I keep my antifreeze in the house so it's not too cold when I run it into the engine.  Not sure if that's really necessary.

Just run at idle the whole time.  Don't have a heater.  If you had a heater without a circulation pump it might be a good idea to run at a higher RPM but I have no experience there.  I would probably disconnect the heater lines and blow it out with 10 psi air as has been mentioned in another thread.

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shawndoggy

I think @granddaddy55 is referencing that for those of us with dripless shaft seals, there's a small amount of water that does actually shoot out of the shaft near where it goes through the hull.  So when you run on the hose, you get water coming out there and coming out of the exhaust.  Not a lot, but not a little either.  I'd say it's like 95% exhaust / 5% shaft seal.

Doesn't apply to those with older boats with the flax seals.

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granddaddy55
8 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

I think @granddaddy55 is referencing that for those of us with dripless shaft seals, there's a small amount of water that does actually shoot out of the shaft near where it goes through the hull.  So when you run on the hose, you get water coming out there and coming out of the exhaust.  Not a lot, but not a little either.  I'd say it's like 95% exhaust / 5% shaft seal.

Doesn't apply to those with older boats with the flax seals.

If coming out of both exhaust and shaft bearing and not 0-minus 10 degrees F or worse ,  wouldn't all components of drive train, exhaust and heater core if run in warm up lever rpms after boat is well warm.    Be protected with 4 to 6 gallons of AF through the transom flush after boat is hot ?  The overtons kit comes complete with 6 gallons I may never need

i wsnt a last second protection for forecasted super cold whether where I may lose power (which we don’t). I may not even do it until I lose power or because I go skiing/snowboarding in Jsnuary or February not be home to deal with my heater or this

Edited by granddaddy55

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oldjeep
19 hours ago, justgary said:

I think @shawndoggy did in the first reply.  His suggestion is to just drain the block by pulling the plugs and the crossover hose.  If you do that, you can change the thermostat while it is empty. 

I say you can pull the thermostat whenever you want.  If you have enough antifreeze in the block, losing a little won't hurt since it won't freeze anyway. 

And regardless of how it was winterized, the chances of there actually being any antifreeze or water in the thermostat housing is pretty remote.  It is the high point of the system

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granddaddy55

So after reading everyone’s response without taking into account total risk avoidance which @minnmarker is doing by draining his block  I guess cause he’s in REAL cold country, any 4 to 6 gallon entry if AF using s warm up lever to push more to heater( how can you tell ? It blows hot!!!), you are probably good and it only costs $104 delivered plus cost of future AF with almost no wrenches used

this approach if boat is easily accessed from storage or home storage would allow you northern guys avoid total hibernation for the boat for entire winter (only probably useful for non ice country)

anf if all you do is then drain the two block plugs on top of this , simple fix of two plugs back in and back on water in no more time than usual other than a flush of water to not put AF in the lake

Seems like a no brainer as opposed to all of the routines I have seen followed religiously by forum members that now seems to me COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY when you drain block after AF introduction

snd all you read about is the errors failing to drain this or that ir to reconnect this or that you read EVERY YEAR including the complaints about dealer involvement or cost , that this would be a more fool proof method with simplicity and far less time and effort with really no risk except forgetting to put back 2 block plugs!

EXTENDING the season fir those that get in the que at dealership early by  stopping season early too not be missed for service.

even mechanical idiots like me can drain two block plugs though I catch my water cause I don’t want that carbon and dirt mess into my clean bilge so that’s the only complicated part is the starboard plug cause no room and I use very small pan or plastic cup to open catch and close multiple times and I don’t even have to rinse bilge 

Edited by granddaddy55

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