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racer808

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racer808

Can someone help me understand HP vs Torque on these motors?  As I am looking at what could be my next boat the Raptor 6.2L sounds fine but then I see the HP is like 360hp?  I have a LY6 6.0L but it's 400hp?  I'm not understanding how the raptor torque would make up for the loss of 40hp?  If my thought process is correct I am assuming the 6.2L raptor is really a 5.7monsoon power wise? 

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Sixball

Just a simple way of looking at what you want is ( For A wake boat ) you want torque to be at a low rpm and good HP numbers in the same RPM range. You Don't need max H.P.  Look at the H.P. and Torque curves. The closer the two reach max at A lower RPM the better the fuel consumption likely.  And the better for not needing to hold hi RPM's   In our racing days HP was good for speed well Toque gave A good E.T. And elapse time was the winner most often. And to get every one going This is why the F-150 guys love the trucks. The torque comes in very low RPM and H.P. is strong in the same range. They both stay kind of flat for the rest of the RPM range.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bozboat

This is a good discussion

and my favorite truck thread

 

Edited by Bozboat

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shawndoggy
2 hours ago, racer808 said:

Can someone help me understand HP vs Torque on these motors?  As I am looking at what could be my next boat the Raptor 6.2L sounds fine but then I see the HP is like 360hp?  I have a LY6 6.0L but it's 400hp?  I'm not understanding how the raptor torque would make up for the loss of 40hp?  If my thought process is correct I am assuming the 6.2L raptor is really a 5.7monsoon power wise? 

Just look at the CARB numbers...

in 2018 the PCM base 6.0 had 363 HP (271kw); the "450" version had 374HP (279kw).

in 2018 the Indmar 6.2s were rated at 261kw (350HP); 297kw (398HP); and 305kw (409HP).  I'm pretty sure that Malibu only uses the latter two... the "wimpy raptor" does show up in some sangers tho.

FWIW, for some reason they also still list the indmar 5.7 in 2018.  It did 230kw (308HP) on the CARB dyno.  So all of the engines are way better than the 5.7.

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TenTwentyOne
2 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

 

in 2018 the Indmar 6.2s were rated at 261kw (350HP); 297kw (398HP); and 305kw (409HP).  I'm pretty sure that Malibu only uses the latter two... the "wimpy raptor" does show up in some sangers tho.

 

 

Its actully the 409hp version that Malibu doesn’t use. That is the Raptor 460.... I think only Tige uses that variation.

The Raptor 400 is the 350hp version, and the 440/450 is the 398hp version.

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Falko

HP is a function of torque. HP=TorqueXRPM/5252.

HP is a measure of work performed, torque is a measure of instantaneous power.

The comment above about where you want to run your engine is a good one. Yes, a 420hp V8 will do some work, but only 420hp of work if you want to run it at 6000 rpms or where ever that rating falls on the curve. But if you get an engine that has a slightly lower peak hp at say 4500 rpm, that might be better for you, and that engine will likely show a higher torque value down low. But if you don't mind high revs, a higher hp engine will do more work. Compare the hp ratings at where you want to run your engine, that is where the curves come in.

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racer808

Thanks guys.  So how does all of this translate to what the boat can do?  I've heard several say their 6.2L Raptor is worthless here at elevation.  Reason for all of this is a good deal has come up but if the motor is weak at elevation there's not much point since I like slam my ride

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racer808

So in laymen terms, the 6.2L at altitude is going to run high RPM's & make a lot of noise that I don't want to hear?

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SCMike

Demo demo demo.  

If it’s a great deal, and everything else is good, then you should try and get in the water with the boat before it gets too cold. 

You are going to find some people that think the boat is too loud, under powered, etc. and some that think the opposite.  Demo yourself and make a real world decision.  

Maybe I missed it, but you also didn’t mention what kind of boat you are looking at.  Are we talking a VTX or a 23LSV?  Or something in between?  That makes a big difference.  

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racer808
30 minutes ago, SCMike said:

Demo demo demo.  

If it’s a great deal, and everything else is good, then you should try and get in the water with the boat before it gets too cold. 

You are going to find some people that think the boat is too loud, under powered, etc. and some that think the opposite.  Demo yourself and make a real world decision.  

Maybe I missed it, but you also didn’t mention what kind of boat you are looking at.  Are we talking a VTX or a 23LSV?  Or something in between?  That makes a big difference.  

MB B52, but it's located at sea level so demoing the boat there won't be of use

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racer808
1 minute ago, shawndoggy said:

Wrong place to say it, but I'm just not a Malibu guy.  I'm really leaning towards staying with MB or maybe getting a Fi23.  Crappy part is I really need to sell mine before doing anything but I have yet to find a wave better than what I have which negates upgrading other than I'm at 500 hours & the boats 5 years old.  And I have a spending problem...

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shawndoggy
2 minutes ago, racer808 said:

Wrong place to say it, but I'm just not a Malibu guy.  I'm really leaning towards staying with MB or maybe getting a Fi23.  Crappy part is I really need to sell mine before doing anything but I have yet to find a wave better than what I have which negates upgrading other than I'm at 500 hours & the boats 5 years old.  And I have a spending problem...

I hear ya.  That was just 3 minutes of CL searching.  If you are happy with your wave, I wouldn't do a lateral upgrade.  At your altitude, go supercharged (in brand of choice) or keep what you have.  

(speaking as a guy with a "450" (airquotes) in a T22 at 4000' -- next boat is either gonna be a hooptie (i.e. downgrade) or supercharged)

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Cole2001

If you’re high elevation don’t go with the 400 raptor. Also if the boat can handle a 16” prop that makes a big difference and the 1.7 tranny. 

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racer808
40 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

If you’re high elevation don’t go with the 400 raptor. Also if the boat can handle a 16” prop that makes a big difference and the 1.7 tranny. 

Good point, I haven't even checked if the 2018-2019 MB's can do a 16" prop.  If it has the 1.76 & can handle a 16" prop would it be worth it?  I think I'm looking at new ordered with a larger motor if that's what I want, seems 98% of the MB guys didn't want to pay for the upgraded engine.

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BlackBluMalibu

I’ve moved from 23LSV to a RI237.  I have H6 6.2l 450. Picked up in June and have 203 hours on it. I had to go with more diameter and pitch as the stock 2893 prop was cavatating too easily. I went with .5” more diameter and 1.75” more pitch and surfing at 11.3mph with 5000 lbs ballast and 5 people, engine rpm is 3000 rpm and wakeboarding at 22 with 3000lbs ballast and same peeps, engine is 3400 rpm and it gets on plane and at speed in 8 seconds. If you go the FI, you will not be disappointed, especially with the H6DI. I personally think that would provide excellent “pull out of the pocket” for any sport and at your elevation starting with the 2893. I’m at 400ft and like I said, the prop was too aggressive. Test out the FI, you will Love it’s simplicty, looks and solid platform and performance. It puts out a great wave. I went with RI because I like the traditional bow. We love it. Good luck with your decision!!

Edited by BlackBluMalibu

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Cole2001

H6 in the fi will be insane. You got probably get away with the 450 non DI.

Personally I would never buy a large surf boat without a powerful engine, did it once, spent forever tweaking props and fighting weight. Yes now it works, but wasn't worth the hassle. Tige Rzx 575 or 2;1 is a must. 

Edited by Cole2001

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SCMike
11 hours ago, racer808 said:

MB B52, but it's located at sea level so demoing the boat there won't be of use

Have you tried calling AWS in Denver and getting their advice?  They don’t have any B52s in their inventory, but they have a few Tomcat 22s.  They all have the 400.  

The Boat Shack in SLC has a bunch of B52s in stock.  The majority of the boats have 440s in them and a few have 400s.  None of them have the SC raptor. They are 1000 feet lower in elevation then Denver, so this might be telling.  

 

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