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JeffC

Advice for Surf 360 attempt

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JeffC

Have been working on this for most of the season -  not as much time on the water as I wanted, but in any case have been trying at least a half dozen attempts per session.   I bought the Model X board this spring to give me a better chance at it (vs my Hyperlite Broadcast which was a great starter board, but seemed resistant to spinning). 

This short video clip is from yesterday, and representative of most of my recent attempts.  I did change my approach yesterday - tried going wider, with a carving turn towards the wake before initiating the spin.   I also was trying to start the spin before getting to the wake so that I didnt submarine the board. 

Im still a long way from the goal... :-(    Dont laugh too loud (ok, ok, laugh all you want, I guess I cant hear you).   Perhaps old, fat, unathletic guys should not be trying 360's.    But I do come up laughing ever time I try.   Its why I love surfing - surf crashes dont hurt.   

Im interested in whatever advice you can offer.  Im thinking I need to get my CG lower on the board before starting the spin, hopefully that would help me NOT have my weight so far back as I come out of the spin. I also think that the wide entry helped, and maybe I need to even be further out when I start it?   Fire away!

https://i.imgur.com/sd5IrVo.mp4

 

 

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racer808

You stood up way too soon.  I don't start standing till the 180 rotation is complete then I stand to stop the rotation of the board.  Another thing that helped me was to squat, not bend over when initiating the rotation, helps keep your center over the board.  Other than that, keep trying trying trying & trying.  I can go out & nail 3 in a row then not hit another for several trips or get one here one there.  My biggest problem now is I keep transferring over the wave & have no idea how to stop that.  So I started working on 360 transfers but have yet to stick one of those.

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Smitty4UK

@JeffC You are getting close. Nothing to laugh at. I am by no means an expert, I have only landed a few 360's. I also surf a Model X. I am assuming you only have the 1 middle fin in. If not got to that. But I would also agree with @racer808, stay squatted as long as you can. It took me over 100 tries. Just stay persistent with it.

Here is a video and article (https://www.thoughtco.com/do-360-surface-spin-while-wakesurfing-3440931) that helped me a lot:

 

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JeffC

Im running with the two outer fins... center fin is out.   That SEEMED to be a good compromise between the ability to get it to spin, and then hook up again, but Im willing to try anything.   I have run it with only the center fin, and it does want to spin... a lot!   When just riding, it definitely forces the issue of carving vs just twisting the board. 

@Smitty4UK Thanks for posting the video... that was really helpful, and I had not found that one before.   It does a couple things for me... confirms my idea that I need to CARVE into the wave to initiate the trick (that was a new thought I had Saturday), and it makes me think about how fast I am trying to do the spin... too fast.  Now I am thinking that there is too much upper body motion in mine in an attempt to get around fast - which leaves me out of sorts by the time I get to the 180, and then I cant hold my balance.   I also think that trying the spin with the rope might help me get the feel of the recovery.

@racer808 Your thought about squatting vs leaning makes a ton of sense to me too... since I am leaned over it, once the turn starts, my weight is out over the front of the board (which would be towards the back of the wave at the 180 position), and then the board starts to slide out from under me. 

Cant wait to get out there and try again... I WANT this... :-)

 

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nohlan4
17 minutes ago, JeffC said:

Im running with the two outer fins... center fin is out.   That SEEMED to be a good compromise between the ability to get it to spin, and then hook up again, but Im willing to try anything.   I have run it with only the center fin, and it does want to spin... a lot!   When just riding, it definitely forces the issue of carving vs just twisting the board. 

@Smitty4UK Thanks for posting the video... that was really helpful, and I had not found that one before.   It does a couple things for me... confirms my idea that I need to CARVE into the wave to initiate the trick (that was a new thought I had Saturday), and it makes me think about how fast I am trying to do the spin... too fast.  Now I am thinking that there is too much upper body motion in mine in an attempt to get around fast - which leaves me out of sorts by the time I get to the 180, and then I cant hold my balance.   I also think that trying the spin with the rope might help me get the feel of the recovery.

@racer808 Your thought about squatting vs leaning makes a ton of sense to me too... since I am leaned over it, once the turn starts, my weight is out over the front of the board (which would be towards the back of the wave at the 180 position), and then the board starts to slide out from under me. 

Cant wait to get out there and try again... I WANT this... :-)

 

Do not carve into the spin! especially with a more skim orientated board like the X. Stand in the back of the pocket, lean forward to gain speed towards the back of the boat when your in the sweet spot behind the boat drag your trailing hand and look over your left shoulder to initiate the spin and keep looking until to spot the boat again on your way back around. Also bend your knees more through the whole spin your standing much too tall. This should put you in the right body position to get 3's easily and consistently.

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JeffC
36 minutes ago, nohlan4 said:

Do not carve into the spin! especially with a more skim orientated board like the X. Stand in the back of the pocket, lean forward to gain speed towards the back of the boat when your in the sweet spot behind the boat drag your trailing hand and look over your left shoulder to initiate the spin and keep looking until to spot the boat again on your way back around. Also bend your knees more through the whole spin your standing much too tall. This should put you in the right body position to get 3's easily and consistently.

Interesting take about the carve... wonder if we are talking about the same part of the move.   My experience Saturday was to start wide from the wake, and carve towards it and then initiate the spin (no longer a carve) as I approach the steep part of the wake.   You probably cant see given the edit, I was definitely dropping back, and trying to gain as much speed as I could before I started the carve, then initiate the spin by digging my hand into the wake.  I will be trying the look over my shoulder part, it was NOT on my mind.   Getting my knees bent more seems like a big deal as well... and I stand up at a point that my weight is back, and cant stay on the board. 

 

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Cole2001

Don’t carve out it just throws everything out of order. 

Try coming in and just doing a 180, this will slow you down and give yourself more control. In your head just think 180, it’s really hard to do a 180 so you’ll probably do a 3 which is a good thing. 

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JeffC
11 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Don’t carve out it just throws everything out of order. 

Try coming in and just doing a 180, this will slow you down and give yourself more control. In your head just think 180, it’s really hard to do a 180 so you’ll probably do a 3 which is a good thing. 

and then the fist pumps for landing it would throw me off the back of the wave!   :thumbup:

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Raimie

Hi Jeff, read through this thread, lots of great tips in here!

 

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wheelman

How do you guys like the model x? I am thinking of adding this board next year. 

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wakedncsu

As most have stated...Doing the bottom turn to start the spin is going to keep you from spinning sooner.  It pushes you much farther back on the wave and it throws your center of gravity over the side of the board.  I struggled with not doing that for a while.  Once I stopped the bottom turn I had the 3 consistent pretty quickly.  You do want to build speed, but stay in the wave.  Never drop down off the wave and come back into it.  It will feel weird when you first try.  I started doing backslides on the wave a couple times before trying the 3 to get the bottom turn habit broken.  Then I would try a 3.  The back slide if a very similar approach; you just don't follow the spin.

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JeffC
3 hours ago, wheelman said:

How do you guys like the model x? I am thinking of adding this board next year. 

Personally I love it.   It is my second board after the Hyperlite Broadcast.  MUCH more responsive, and WAY faster.    What I dont know is how it compares to other boards n that class..

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Smitty4UK
17 hours ago, wheelman said:

How do you guys like the model x? I am thinking of adding this board next year. 

I am really happy with my Model X. I demoed about 6 different boards and it was by far my favorite. It is a very different board with 3 fins compared to one which was nice because it helped my wife ease into a more skim style. I have tried it with no fins and I am definitely not ready for that but I did order. shorter fin (Wave 1.2) which gave me a little more slide, but I can still steer it.

The Model X being Carbon Fiber makes all the difference. The lighter weight helps me gain speed faster in the wake and I can surf further back in the wave and still recover.

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granddaddy55
On 9/24/2018 at 8:52 AM, JeffC said:

Have been working on this for most of the season -  not as much time on the water as I wanted, but in any case have been trying at least a half dozen attempts per session.   I bought the Model X board this spring to give me a better chance at it (vs my Hyperlite Broadcast which was a great starter board, but seemed resistant to spinning). 

This short video clip is from yesterday, and representative of most of my recent attempts.  I did change my approach yesterday - tried going wider, with a carving turn towards the wake before initiating the spin.   I also was trying to start the spin before getting to the wake so that I didnt submarine the board. 

Im still a long way from the goal... :-(    Dont laugh too loud (ok, ok, laugh all you want, I guess I cant hear you).   Perhaps old, fat, unathletic guys should not be trying 360's.    But I do come up laughing ever time I try.   Its why I love surfing - surf crashes dont hurt.   

Im interested in whatever advice you can offer.  Im thinking I need to get my CG lower on the board before starting the spin, hopefully that would help me NOT have my weight so far back as I come out of the spin. I also think that the wide entry helped, and maybe I need to even be further out when I start it?   Fire away!

https://i.imgur.com/sd5IrVo.mp4

 

 

Do ten as the average success rate is 1 in 10, so with less than ten odds go up you don’t pull one 

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JeffC
On 9/25/2018 at 7:07 PM, granddaddy55 said:

Do ten as the average success rate is 1 in 10, so with less than ten odds go up you don’t pull one 

I must really suck at this... on those odds, I should have a dozen successes under my belt by now :lol:

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granddaddy55

But when you do a few your avg will quickly reach 1 in 10

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nohlan4
On 9/24/2018 at 12:07 PM, JeffC said:

Interesting take about the carve... wonder if we are talking about the same part of the move.   My experience Saturday was to start wide from the wake, and carve towards it and then initiate the spin (no longer a carve) as I approach the steep part of the wake.   You probably cant see given the edit, I was definitely dropping back, and trying to gain as much speed as I could before I started the carve, then initiate the spin by digging my hand into the wake.  I will be trying the look over my shoulder part, it was NOT on my mind.   Getting my knees bent more seems like a big deal as well... and I stand up at a point that my weight is back, and cant stay on the board. 

 

as stated do not bottom turn/carve into the pin at all. Just come straight at the boat.

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Infinitysurf
On 9/24/2018 at 9:52 AM, JeffC said:

Have been working on this for most of the season -  not as much time on the water as I wanted, but in any case have been trying at least a half dozen attempts per session.   I bought the Model X board this spring to give me a better chance at it (vs my Hyperlite Broadcast which was a great starter board, but seemed resistant to spinning). 

This short video clip is from yesterday, and representative of most of my recent attempts.  I did change my approach yesterday - tried going wider, with a carving turn towards the wake before initiating the spin.   I also was trying to start the spin before getting to the wake so that I didnt submarine the board. 

Im still a long way from the goal... :-(    Dont laugh too loud (ok, ok, laugh all you want, I guess I cant hear you).   Perhaps old, fat, unathletic guys should not be trying 360's.    But I do come up laughing ever time I try.   Its why I love surfing - surf crashes dont hurt.   

Im interested in whatever advice you can offer.  Im thinking I need to get my CG lower on the board before starting the spin, hopefully that would help me NOT have my weight so far back as I come out of the spin. I also think that the wide entry helped, and maybe I need to even be further out when I start it?   Fire away!

https://i.imgur.com/sd5IrVo.mp4

 

 

Great advice above! I started trying 360's last season, all thru this season. I kept tossing myself out and over the wave, or ended up to far back to pump forward. No less than 200 fails while watching my buddies nail them over and over! Only been in last few weeks that I started getting them and I feel like the biggest thing for me was actually doing the turn near the top of the wave (I am on surfs style board, so my fins tend to give more resistance) and more forward (like explained in the video).

I think thru all the things I need to do before doing it each time since if I forget one, I don't get it and have found that for me....its as much mental as it is physical. By NO means am I great at this yet, just found a few key points that have made all the difference for me and if I don't get it now at least I am very close. I drive forward from back of wave toward the front to get the momentum....(I drive up and stay toward middle/top of wave so I don't "carve" myself over the wave when I start the spin)....stay relaxed and don't "force" the spin since that throws off your center of gravity, just dip that hand into water and like said, the effort put in is more like trying to get the 180 rather than the 360.....stay low with knees bent and weight centered thru entire 360, if I stand up too soon it does not work for me....keep your neck turned thru ENTIRE 360, looking for corner of the boat since your body follows your head....

Obviously on a skim style, especially without fins...it can easily be harder to stop the spin and over-rotate. My perspective is using surf style Soulcraft Voodoo with John John Florence fins. Totally pumped to finally be getting this as I tried and failed for so long I was getting frustrated and ready to give up. WATCH video of yourself since its much easier for you to SEE what you are doing wrong so you can mentally correct yourself. MOST important....don't give up on trying!! You will get it.

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abovewater

This is all great advice. I would add that once you can get around, make sure to spot the landing. Your body follows your eyes, so get your head around and then focus on the back corner of the boat. That's been helpful for my crew.

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