Medallion Redesign

[mikeo]

Take a look at http://waketouch.com/home.html

I'm going to end up on a soapbox with this, but here goes...

The computer systems used in cars, boats, and other methods of transportation are woefully behind the technology curve as soon as they're released because of the design cycle to build a complete closed system. The recent adoption of existing embedded computers is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough. I'm advocating for a system that collects all the data and can control the relays, and other human interface control structures with a dedicated control system that uses an well defined and published protocol; The use of J1959 is a good start. There should then be a second human interface component that allows for customization not only of the device, but of the interface elements. Here is a practical example:  The truck I tow my boat with is a 2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ (diesel), it has analog gauges for speed, tach, battery, temp, etc. but it also has two digital screen for information/control and entertainment; I added a 3rd screen with and Edge CTS2 Insight (not tuner, just display). The CTS2 is getting close to what I'm talking about, but I want it in an iOS App and Android apk that uses an OBD2 dongle (wireless to the tablet). The idea here is that my CTS2 has all the customization that I want: digital gauges, analog gauges, warning lights, camera input, etc. With the truck it's possible to just jump in a drive, the boat needs to be the same way (and yes, I know that today's analog gauges are fed by digital signal) but to have a custom experience then the use of an external device is required.

If there was a simple dash with speed, tach, engine temp, volts, fuel*, and I'm sure I'm missing something critical that might be enough for some drivers/owners, but then have an option to connect to a tablet dedicated to extended functionality; The manufacturers could have a integrated mount point for the tablet where it is an option for the owner to put their own device. This could even end up as a promo for dealers: "get a tablet with your boat purchase" as well as it removes the cloud of uncertainty for repair parts. I'm terrified of what the 12" touchscreen is going to cost to replace when the G3 tower mirror mount bolt/handle cracks it or my kids do something I haven't thought of yet to break the screen.

I'm rambling because my kids want to play and I'm trying to finish typing this. @TB2 PM me if you want to connect for a more coherent conversation.

In summary: there should be two independent but integrated system: one to control all the aspects of the boat without a user interface and a second system that handles user interaction to talk to the control system. The user interaction system should be interchangeable and customizable based on user preference, offering options and combinations that the manufacturer hasn't thought of. Having a software based control application that "talks" to the control system provides the ultimate answer. The user can leave the boat without an external control system (tablet) based on default dash gauges, or can enhance the system with an external control surface that allows for customization of the look and feel as well as replacement of the interface device.

* fuel is a can of worms, check out this project I worked on: https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-archive/miscellaneous-projects/accurate-fuel-flow-gauge-r110

[Eagleboy99]

The nice thing about the Waketouch approach is that you can get IP68 tablets.  That and some conformal coating and MAYBE electronics and water can mix.  But I would still keep basic stuff in analog with some programmable presets.

[tjklein]

2 hours ago, mikeo said:

Take a look at http://waketouch.com/home.html

I'm going to end up on a soapbox with this, but here goes...

The computer systems used in cars, boats, and other methods of transportation are woefully behind the technology curve as soon as they're released because of the design cycle to build a complete closed system. The recent adoption of existing embedded computers is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough. I'm advocating for a system that collects all the data and can control the relays, and other human interface control structures with a dedicated control system that uses an well defined and published protocol; The use of J1959 is a good start. There should then be a second human interface component that allows for customization not only of the device, but of the interface elements. Here is a practical example:  The truck I tow my boat with is a 2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ (diesel), it has analog gauges for speed, tach, battery, temp, etc. but it also has two digital screen for information/control and entertainment; I added a 3rd screen with and Edge CTS2 Insight (not tuner, just display). The CTS2 is getting close to what I'm talking about, but I want it in an iOS App and Android apk that uses an OBD2 dongle (wireless to the tablet). The idea here is that my CTS2 has all the customization that I want: digital gauges, analog gauges, warning lights, camera input, etc. With the truck it's possible to just jump in a drive, the boat needs to be the same way (and yes, I know that today's analog gauges are fed by digital signal) but to have a custom experience then the use of an external device is required.

If there was a simple dash with speed, tach, engine temp, volts, fuel*, and I'm sure I'm missing something critical that might be enough for some drivers/owners, but then have an option to connect to a tablet dedicated to extended functionality; The manufacturers could have a integrated mount point for the tablet where it is an option for the owner to put their own device. This could even end up as a promo for dealers: "get a tablet with your boat purchase" as well as it removes the cloud of uncertainty for repair parts. I'm terrified of what the 12" touchscreen is going to cost to replace when the G3 tower mirror mount bolt/handle cracks it or my kids do something I haven't thought of yet to break the screen.

I'm rambling because my kids want to play and I'm trying to finish typing this. @TB2 PM me if you want to connect for a more coherent conversation.

In summary: there should be two independent but integrated system: one to control all the aspects of the boat without a user interface and a second system that handles user interaction to talk to the control system. The user interaction system should be interchangeable and customizable based on user preference, offering options and combinations that the manufacturer hasn't thought of. Having a software based control application that "talks" to the control system provides the ultimate answer. The user can leave the boat without an external control system (tablet) based on default dash gauges, or can enhance the system with an external control surface that allows for customization of the look and feel as well as replacement of the interface device.

* fuel is a can of worms, check out this project I worked on: https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-archive/miscellaneous-projects/accurate-fuel-flow-gauge-r110

 

I've thought this exact same thing for a long time.  It would be an actual 'game changer'.   I would love analog controls and an iPad touchscreen interface.   Think how nice it would be for music too!

[Eagleboy99]

Speaking of UI/UX.... https://driving.ca/bmw/auto-news/news/the-inext-is-the-self-driving-suv-bmw-will-sell-you-in-2021  Take a read of what is coming down the pike in terms of interface.  Cool, exciting and scary!

[TB2]

7 hours ago, mikeo said:

Take a look at http://waketouch.com/home.html

I'm going to end up on a soapbox with this, but here goes...

The computer systems used in cars, boats, and other methods of transportation are woefully behind the technology curve as soon as they're released because of the design cycle to build a complete closed system. The recent adoption of existing embedded computers is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough. I'm advocating for a system that collects all the data and can control the relays, and other human interface control structures with a dedicated control system that uses an well defined and published protocol; The use of J1959 is a good start. There should then be a second human interface component that allows for customization not only of the device, but of the interface elements. Here is a practical example:  The truck I tow my boat with is a 2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ (diesel), it has analog gauges for speed, tach, battery, temp, etc. but it also has two digital screen for information/control and entertainment; I added a 3rd screen with and Edge CTS2 Insight (not tuner, just display). The CTS2 is getting close to what I'm talking about, but I want it in an iOS App and Android apk that uses an OBD2 dongle (wireless to the tablet). The idea here is that my CTS2 has all the customization that I want: digital gauges, analog gauges, warning lights, camera input, etc. With the truck it's possible to just jump in a drive, the boat needs to be the same way (and yes, I know that today's analog gauges are fed by digital signal) but to have a custom experience then the use of an external device is required.

If there was a simple dash with speed, tach, engine temp, volts, fuel*, and I'm sure I'm missing something critical that might be enough for some drivers/owners, but then have an option to connect to a tablet dedicated to extended functionality; The manufacturers could have a integrated mount point for the tablet where it is an option for the owner to put their own device. This could even end up as a promo for dealers: "get a tablet with your boat purchase" as well as it removes the cloud of uncertainty for repair parts. I'm terrified of what the 12" touchscreen is going to cost to replace when the G3 tower mirror mount bolt/handle cracks it or my kids do something I haven't thought of yet to break the screen.

I'm rambling because my kids want to play and I'm trying to finish typing this. @TB2 PM me if you want to connect for a more coherent conversation.

In summary: there should be two independent but integrated system: one to control all the aspects of the boat without a user interface and a second system that handles user interaction to talk to the control system. The user interaction system should be interchangeable and customizable based on user preference, offering options and combinations that the manufacturer hasn't thought of. Having a software based control application that "talks" to the control system provides the ultimate answer. The user can leave the boat without an external control system (tablet) based on default dash gauges, or can enhance the system with an external control surface that allows for customization of the look and feel as well as replacement of the interface device.

* fuel is a can of worms, check out this project I worked on: https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-archive/miscellaneous-projects/accurate-fuel-flow-gauge-r110

This is a lot of great information! Thanks for the help and I would love to chat more about this. 

[lasik]

On 9/15/2018 at 4:36 PM, tjklein said:

 

I've thought this exact same thing for a long time.  It would be an actual 'game changer'.   I would love analog controls and an iPad touchscreen interface.   Think how nice it would be for music too!

Switched from Malibu to Axis for a lot of the reasons above.

hardly used the presets so they are not missed

manual switches & analog gauges have made teaching kids much easier than the screens...less choices KISS principles still work

We’ve had same questions regarding analog controls with smartphone/tablet interface

[tjklein]

3 hours ago, lasik said:

Switched from Malibu to Axis for a lot of the reasons above.

hardly used the presets so they are not missed

manual switches & analog gauges have made teaching kids much easier than the screens...less choices KISS principles still work

We’ve had same questions regarding analog controls with smartphone/tablet interface

 

Exactly why I'm looking at a T23 or A24 for my next boat.  

[formulaben]

On 9/14/2018 at 2:14 PM, 67King said:

I believe the newest boats have "L" shaped tanks that run up the sides, at least in the stern, so that the bags will fill at the same time.  But for those of us who have plumbed in bags to the front, it won't work.  But at least the new boats have addressed this to a degree.  That said, I stilll just prefer the simplicity of things.  Another poster in a thread a few weeks ago lamented losing the Ride series boats because of this, and I think he nailed it.  I prefer the fit and finish of a 'Bu, but the simplicy of an Axis.

That may have been me.  I really thought that after owning my 2002 boat for a few years I would upgrade to a brand new or newer V-Ride but now I have to go to Plan B.  It's too bad, as another brand is a definite possibility since I am not a fan of the Axis aesthetics, especially that oh so homely tower.

 

On 9/14/2018 at 2:17 PM, ajive said:

The lower screen is processing time is garbage.  The touch-to-action delay is unreal by any standard.  Not being able to use the volume controls as functional sliders is very frustrating... Having to tap the sub volume button 50 times just to watch it take 30 seconds to process all the taps and overshooting your target makes me so angry!

If you can't already tell!

I actually disagree with the negative review above on the Nautique system.  The single screen is a little busy but all of the main functions are close at hand.  And the placement is awesome as it opens up your windshield for the little things, like seeing where you are going while underway.  And above all else, it appears to have a processor from the most recent decade!

I'm also a stickler for those tiny details...

[The Hulk]

Why not an Android powered system with easy ability to update via WiFi connection to phone. 

If it was APK based it would be an easy update, ppl could create different layouts/skins to suit their visual desires. 

Also should be able to view engine data as needed, should be esay with numerous dongles on market and an app based system.

The reality is someone that can easily do this is probably way above the typical pay grade at Malibu...

Or u could go heyday on us and just install an iPad screen that is more powerful and responds when u touch it! Easy to replace and works. Oh and I could dim it down to actually be able to see driving at night unblinded.. currently u need to cover screen with a towel at night.. 

U may want to follow pavati with a 15" Garmin touch screen .. good luck

Edited September 19, 2018 by The Hulk

[TenTwentyOne]

14 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Why not an Android powered system with easy ability to update via WiFi connection to phone. 

MC has gone to this now, for 2018 and newer boats. It’s called “Spark”, and is a WiFi based connection through your iPhone/Android so that updates can be done automatically without going to the dealer, and you can also forward direct troubleshooting information to a dealer or MC, should a problem arise.

there is some other user interface functions and customization abilities as well, but I’m not exactly sure what they are yet. I think they are releasing the software update and full information next month. The only info I have so far is what was shared at dealer days.

 

something like this would be a good feature to have on the new medallion system.

Edited September 19, 2018 by TenTwentyOne

[The Hulk]

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

MC has gone to this now, for 2018 and newer boats. It’s called “Spark”, and is a WiFi based connection through your iPhone/Android so that updates can be done automatically without going to the dealer, and you can also forward direct troubleshooting information to a dealer or MC, should a problem arise.

there is some other user interface functions and customization abilities as well, but I’m not exactly sure what they are yet. I think they are releasing the software update and full information next month. The only info I have so far is what was shared at dealer days.

 

something like this would be a good feature to have on the new medallion system.

Malibu getting complacent on the dash eh?

[Eagleboy99]

11 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

Malibu getting complacent on the dash eh?

Yup!  No clear path forward.  I mean if they are actually using Windoze as the OS??

[Dodger40]

Having analog is what keeps me in my 2007 vlx. I won’t buy a newer Malibu BECAUSE of the touch screen. I like the wave the Axis puts out, but I’m not sold on the boat. I am interested in the separate tablet idea. It would be easy to replace and not $1,200. Malibu probably won’t do it because it means we could have a choice from who to buy from.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Dodger40

[dlb]

The fact that the auto industry has given in to having Android and Apple connectivity to the display for everything except the speedo and associated engine information is telling.

The boating industry is slow to get onboard, pun intended.  

It is an app driven world.  

Like others have stated in some form or another they need to wake up to that fact.

My wife is correct, we will keep our 2002 until they wake up....  5 years from now the electronics will fail and there will be no parts or people who know how to fix it.  

Without the app we will not be spending $100K +.  It is crazy that that is the case but it is reality.  The auto parts store in town, YouTube and this site make it an easy decision.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by dlb
Typo