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thealy

Water Cooled Shaft Seal Winterization question

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thealy

Today I did a test run of the entire winterization water draining process. All is very easy. I disconnected all the houses and I blew compressed air through the top hose connected to the Heater core and that worked like a charm. The only thing I did not disconnect where the two drain plugs on either side of the block (the boat was in the water and I did want to risk destroying the knock sensor and have to paddle to the landing). I did however come up with a few questions. Q1 I posted on another thread but thought I would repost here.

Q1: There is a lot of discussion about using antifreeze or not. The Indmar manual doesn't even mention it. However I do think it is probably a good idea as a safe guard. My question is would it be a good idea to drain all the water out then run antifreeze through the engine and then drain all entire antifreeze? On an other post someone mentioned they put a cup of antifreeze in the freezer and it partially froze (to a mushy consistency). Now that is fine as long as the pink antifreeze has NO water in it as water is the only liquid to actually expand when frozen.

Q2: I have the water cooled Shaft Seal as apposed to the typical shaft packing and am wondering if this needs to be drained and what the process is to drain this. I can't find any information about this.

Q3: The tranny cooler has two hoses running to it. Are these filled with tranny fluid or water?

Q4: When spraying fogging oil into the intakes, should the entire large metal covering on top of the engine be removed exposing the 8 air intake ports or can you just remove the air filter in the back of the engine and spray into there?

Thanks in advance for any help on these questions.

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Brad B
Q1: There is a lot of discussion about using antifreeze or not. The Indmar manual doesn't even mention it. However I do think it is probably a good idea as a safe guard. My question is would it be a good idea to drain all the water out then run antifreeze through the engine and then drain all entire antifreeze? On an other post someone mentioned they put a cup of antifreeze in the freezer and it partially froze (to a mushy consistency). Now that is fine as long as the pink antifreeze has NO water in it as water is the only liquid to actually expand when frozen.

Use tequila - it won't freeze and is environmentally friendly Innocent.gif

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VinRLX

The antifreeze question seems to be one of opinion. Technically, it isn't necessary if you get every bit of water out of your system. Our ski partner's MC 190 was winterized by a mechanic a few years back and had a cracked block in the spring. No AF used in process.

If you want to read a few FAQ re AF, click here.

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JAGMAN
The antifreeze question seems to be one of opinion. Technically, it isn't necessary if you get every bit of water out of your system. Our ski partner's MC 190 was winterized by a mechanic a few years back and had a cracked block in the spring. No AF used in process.

If you want to read a few FAQ re AF, click here.

I personally think that if you add antifreze you are slowing the corrosion process. When the block is filled with water corrosion is slowed (just like shipwrecks). When you drain the block, the coolant passages are now air filled and rusting will really takeoff. Of course none of this is based on science, just what makes sense to me. I have closed cooling anyway, so......

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vette-ski

I've never seen the water shaft seal, so I can't say for sure. But if it holds water, I would drain it.

The long hoses that connect to the tranny are filled with tranny fluid. Water goes through the cooler via the large diameter hoses on the front of the motor. You will want to pop off all of those large hoses. They all hold water. But the long tranny hoses you don't have to mess with.

I'm not sure what engine you have because your description of the intake ports doesn't match my Monsoon. I take the filter (spark arrester) off, but I only have one large throttle body opening under it. If you really have 8 individual ports (one per cylinder?), you will probably need to spray fog somewhere before that where you only have a single hole. The purpose of fog oil is to lubricate the cylinder walls. If you are worried about the intake, just forget that and pull the spark plugs and spray directly into the cylinders. Then turn the engine over a few times without starting.

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Trentster

Just follow the clear hose from the shaft seal back to where it connects near the tranny cooler. Disconnect it and blow through it. I just use my lungs.

Trentster

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99response

FWIW, you can't really damage those old knock sensors, just put a 7/8" deep socket or short wrench on them and your all set. And if you did you'll usually only get an alarm at WOT.

1) AF or not is your choice, I've never used it. However, I would run AF through your heater core, and shower if you have it. If you choose to run AF through the block make sure you drain it down all the way (always make sure you take a screwdriver or zip tie and stick it in the drain plug holes in the block because these tend to get plugged up). After you drain the block then add the antifreeze, because after all watery antifreeze will definilty freeze. I've seen of people getting away with using 5 gallons of antifreeze without draining the block, but I don't like it and its all of 2 minutes to drain down that block anyway.

2) Pull the hose off the cooler and blow through as mentioned

3) Tranny cooler lines have ATF in them, hot fluid flows from the tranny and is cooled by the water in the cooler. Don't take these off, you'll just make a mess

4) Fogging, dont remove the intake plenum (the black thing), you'll have to spray up from the air filter after you remove it. Another option is to run some two stroke oil through the motor, you can add 2-3 ounces to your fuel filter. I find this easier than fogging.

Another thing I'd like to mention is to make sure you drain your gas wayyy down if you have ethanol in your fuel, this stuff just dosen't store so don't try. Good luck

Chris

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gonorth

Good point on using up the ethanol. I never use it in any boat or other small engines even tho I have to go out of my way and spend a little more for zero ethanol gas. (higher risk of explosions with ethanol in an enclosed engine compartment like inboards have.)

Also, add fuel stabalizer beofre you shut down for the season so it gets into the fuel filter, pump, etc before you shut down.

I don't trust that RV antifreeze because it does not take much dilution to allow it to freeze. I use the real stuf and if you are worried about the toxicity use the sierra non toxic stuff. I have heard that the real stuff is not good for the heater core but just don't see how it is any different than the radiator in your car. Your engine slants back and the block drains are above the rear of the engine block, so I think some AF is good to dilute that little bit of water that does not drain. Lowering the bow helps get more but still not all.

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thealy

I could be wrong, but it seems that in the past stations would make it very clear if there was Ethanol in the gas but I am not so sure they still need/do report that on their pumps or maybe I am just filling up with pumps that don't use it. Does anyone know of a good way to insure you are not filling up with gas with Ethanol? Are there any certain brands/companies that do not use Ethanol for sure?

And thanks for all the great responses so far.

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gonorth

it probably varies by state. Here in MN all pumps are required to be 10% ethanol so they quit marking them and mark the ones that are not ethanol with a warning that it is illegal to use it in modern cars. It is only available in 91 octane. In Wisconsin the ethanol is still labeled for the most part. You would have to ask an attendant and half the time they do not have a clue.

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gonorth

By the way, non-oxygenated means the same thing as non-ethanol.

There were a couple Conoco's here that had it. There has to be some near you, just finding a station is the hard part, should run about 13 cents more than regular. Make some calls. Ask some boat, ATV, or lawn equipment dealers if they know of stations that carry it.

Thealy, by the way, nice looking rig. Is that dark blue or black? Tandom axle trailers look sharp, mine is tandom too.

Edited by GONORTH

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99response

If you have it use the fuel shut off valve and starve the engine of gas as your putting it away. This way next spring you can mix the (hopefully very little) bad gas with new fresh gas before it gets into the motor's fuel system again.

Chris

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trevorb
If you have it use the fuel shut off valve and starve the engine of gas as your putting it away. This way next spring you can mix the (hopefully very little) bad gas with new fresh gas before it gets into the motor's fuel system again.

Chris

Does anyone actually shut off their fuel supply when winterizing? I wasn't sure if I should shut off the fuel for the winter. Also, is there even a fuel shutoff valve on a 2003 335 monsoon. I haven't been able to find one on my boat.

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gonorth
Does anyone actually shut off their fuel supply when winterizing? I wasn't sure if I should shut off the fuel for the winter. Also, is there even a fuel shutoff valve on a 2003 335 monsoon. I haven't been able to find one on my boat.

Check your owners manual for location. In my 2000 RLX it is in the trunk, center rear part. I suspect the location has more to do with the boat model than the engine.

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BlastRlxi

Does anyone actually shut off their fuel supply when winterizing? I wasn't sure if I should shut off the fuel for the winter. Also, is there even a fuel shutoff valve on a 2003 335 monsoon. I haven't been able to find one on my boat.

Check your owners manual for location. In my 2000 RLX it is in the trunk, center rear part. I suspect the location has more to do with the boat model than the engine.

The fuel shut off on my 05 Rlxi is supposed to be in the trunk area also but I have never found it. Anyone with the Rlxi know if the fuel shutoff valve is easily accessible and, if so, where id is?

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thealy

My thought would be that if you are going to run it out of gas, you should spray fogging oil directly into your cylinders to make sure the rings are well lubricated through the winter. I do this to my snowmobile every summer and it has always worked well. But with that said, I have to belive that having stablized fuel in the system is still better than having air in the system unless by turning off the supply of fuel and running it out actually creates a vacuum in the lines and fuel rail. I would assume that a vacuum in the lines and rail would be a good thing.

I will check tonight to see if I can find the shutoff valve on my 2005 Rlxi.

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thealy
Thealy, by the way, nice looking rig. Is that dark blue or black? Tandom axle trailers look sharp, mine is tandom too.

Thanks. It is black. This was the boat that pulled the jumpers in the 2005 Malibu open in WI. After not talking to the dealer in 4 months (not a complaint), the sales guy just happened to call me the day I sold my previous boat and the same day the guy that was rep'ing this boat returned it for the season. I told my rep that I would be in tomorrow to look at this boat. The only problem was that it was on a single axle trailer, so I thought about it and we came to an agreement that they would put it on a new 2006 tandem. It was November in MN so not a bad time to purchase a boat and this was the only used 2005 HH that I was aware of in the area. My wife and I have been very happy with it.

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Gordo

If you use regular antifreeze and then start your boat in the water the next spring, you will kill a lot of those pesky fish Biggrin.gif At least you can finally get rid of that smell Crazy.gif

On a more serious note: I would be sure and use a fuel stablizer this winter. Ethanol loves water, so if you get any condensation in your tank during the cold weather, the ethanol will combine wth the water and leave you with a "slug" in your fuel system - since the water is heavier than gas and will sit on the bottom of your tank - right where the fuel pick up is located. It is hard to find any gas without ethanol these days. BTW, never use the 85% ethanol fuel (marketed in the Midwest) in your boat. Not made for it.

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VinRLX
Does anyone actually shut off their fuel supply when winterizing? I wasn't sure if I should shut off the fuel for the winter. Also, is there even a fuel shutoff valve on a 2003 335 monsoon. I haven't been able to find one on my boat.

I would not starve the engine for gas upon shut-down. I agree with above that it's better to have stabilized fuel in the system instead of air.

My 03 has no shut off in the trunk. I don't think they put them in 03 and beyond, BICBW.

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gonorth

I second that comment on E85 and don't get me going on E85. (85% ethanol) Unless you have a late model vehicle that is specifically designed to run on it you will destroy it. NO BOAT SHOULD EVER RUN E85!

E85 will deliver fewer MPG, the percentage fewer MPG's you will get is pretty close to the same percentage you will save on the price per gallon. So you sort of break even. So, unless you are a total tree hugger there no motivation to use it. My next pet peve, when gas price skyrocketed (10% ethanol here) this summer so did E85, followed right with gas price hikes penny for penny per gallon. Funny thing, E85 only has 15% gas in it. The other 85% is corn. But, corn didn't take the same price ride that gas did. So, wouldn't you think E85 should only go up 15% of what gas goes up? Hmmmm, could it be that the ethanol plants made millions in extra profits this summer. Or is it really ture that it takes more gas to make ethanol than you get out of the process? If so, why bother makeing it?

So, there is no doubt what you should do for winterization of your bou or any other vehicle you store for a long period of time. If you have any ethanol at all in your tank (and if you are in Minnesota and you didn't buy your gas at a marina there is a 99.9 percent chance you have 10% ethanol in it) then siphen it out or use as much up as you can. Then fill your tank with pure gas. Doesn't matter how hard it is to find it, just find it. A full tank is best but better to go with a half tank of pure gas then to have any ethanol in it. Put stabalizer in, even if it is pure gas. People will argue the value of stabalizer but I figure it can't hurt and is good insurance.

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99response

Does anyone actually shut off their fuel supply when winterizing? I wasn't sure if I should shut off the fuel for the winter. Also, is there even a fuel shutoff valve on a 2003 335 monsoon. I haven't been able to find one on my boat.

I would not starve the engine for gas upon shut-down. I agree with above that it's better to have stabilized fuel in the system instead of air.

My 03 has no shut off in the trunk. I don't think they put them in 03 and beyond, BICBW.

Jack, the real problem is there is no fuel stabalizer that works for ethanol, I starved my engine when I put it away, but maybe thats because I was changing fuel filters full of black rubber gunk from the fuel hoses all summer long on brand new boats....

Chris

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88Skier

So what is the chance of buying 92 or 93 octane in Maine, at a gas station, in September, and it having ethanol in it?

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gonorth

I don't think there are a lot of states that mandate 10% ethanol and some that do mandidate it they might just do it in some cities. The only way to know in your situation is to get input from someone in your state/area that knows. I those states that don't mandate it I would guess that the fuel distributors vary with what they provide.

Never put ethanol treated gas in any small engines like lawn mowers, chain saws, etc if you can avoid it.

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