No Start Troubleshooting

[tvano]

@Bozboat i'll take a look at the no start doc and see if i can clear up any confusion within it.  that may take a minute as i get a little pressed for time once i start skiing.

on the other side of the coin, i don't see any tmc definition or convention having an effect on how folks frame their questions.

[shawndoggy]

Haha I'm with you @Bozboat.  To *me* "no crank" is the condition that happens when you try to restart the boat while it's in gear.  Starter is disabled and turning the key does nothing.  If the starter will crank but it won't start, that's a "no fire" condition.  As in having the safety lanyard pulled.  I'm sure there are probably better technical descriptions.

[Bozboat]

8 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Haha I'm with you @Bozboat.  To *me* "no crank" is the condition that happens when you try to restart the boat while it's in gear.  Starter is disabled and turning the key does nothing.  If the starter will crank but it won't start, that's a "no fire" condition.  As in having the safety lanyard pulled.  I'm sure there are probably better technical descriptions.

Exactly,  I have read many “boat won’t crank” threads where 3 pages in you eventually figure out it cranks just fine but won’t fire. 

[MalibuNation]

No crank and won't turn over means the same thing to me.  I know what you're saying Boz but I would add that you could get some sound like the dreaded click of the starter or the sound out the fuel pump spinning up yet no cranking/turning over.

What about no crank/no turn over = the crank staft isn't moving/rotating/spinning?

[MalibuNation]

Agreed on the "no fire".

[tvano]

no sets today; rain.

i've massaged the no start troubleshooting doc with the intention of better addressing the use of "crank" and "run". 

please note that i have not touched borrowed quotes or footnoted items as i don't think i have that authority.  to address these exceptions i've placed definitions near the top of the document which is intended to be global in scope.

it's been a minute since i've had to touch anything technical so if i've missed any occurrences, or you don't like the taste of,  give a shout and i'll have another go at it, when it's raining.

[justgary]

The MEFI 2 service manual uses the terms "crank," "start," and "run."  E.G. "Hard Start" is "Engine cranks OK, but does not start for a long time.  Engine does eventually run, or may start but immediately dies."

The MEFI 4 service manual has a diagnostic section titled, "Engine Cranks But Will Not Run."

The MEFI 6 service manual has a diagnostic section titled, "Engine Cranks but Does Not Run."  The diagnostic begins by verifying that the scan tool can talk to the engine, then at step 5, "Attempt to start the engine. Verify that the engine cranks."  If it does not, they send you off to repair the starter circuit.  If it does, the next step is, "Attempt to start the engine. Verify the engine starts and idles."

Since that is what they use in the manuals, I propose that "crank" means that the starter is turning the crankshaft, "start" means that the engine begins to ignite the fuel/air mixture by applying spark, and "run" means that the engine is turning by producing its own power.  Note that "run" doesn't mean perfect operation, just that it keeps rotating under its own power.

So "will not start" is your "no fire" condition, but might be better since the engine may well have fire (spark) but no fire (no fuel to ignite)....  Since it "will not start," the next step is to determine whether it is missing spark or fuel.

[tvano]

@Ronnie

please consider hosting the no-start document on tmc servers?  agreed that tmc hosting would lead to continued exchanges as that document sees revision.

i don't have much luck in maintaining access to the google docs copy.  the document is marked as "anyone w the link" but i keep getting requests for access.

maybe it's an old guy thing causing the issue but, if the doc were hosted at tmc it might relieve some frustration for those members who are already frustrated because their rig is dia.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, tvano said:

@Ronnie

please consider hosting the no-start document on tmc servers?  agreed that tmc hosting would lead to continued exchanges as that document sees revision.

i don't have much luck in maintaining access to the google docs copy.  the document is marked as "anyone w the link" but i keep getting requests for access.

maybe it's an old guy thing causing the issue but, if the doc were hosted at tmc it might relieve some frustration for those members who are already frustrated because their rig is dia.

Sent you a PM.

[dalt1]

2018 LSV. Stopped engine to pick up rider. After 5 minutes hit start button and nothing. No crank. Checked throttle in neutral, lanyard was cycled, everything else was normal. Powered down shut off batteries and rebooted. No change. After about 20 minutes it cranked and fired as usual. Didn’t think to try backup key while dead. Now hard to diagnose as it’s working again. Can the wires behind the switch be jumped next time to rule out switch issues? If so, which 2 of the four or five on back would need jumped? Is the main power and starter switch buttons the same other than light in main button? Could swap them to verify? This will be done while on the water so kind of panic mode. Need to keep friends with boat nearby for tow of shame if needed till I figure this one out. 

[wdr]

I just had to replace one of the Interstate  SRM 24s batteries this week. It cranked up fine on launch and performed as usual. Alternator at the typical 15.2v. My first indication was the wedge stow button was flickering. Then of course we were floating by the biggest rocks in the Cumberland and it won’t start and we go into clown car mode to push off. Switched to “1+2” and she fires up. I run it on #2 and not a problem or indication the rest of the day. Get it home and plug it in and it charges like normal. Holds a charge for 24 hours with a minor .3 volt drop, but still over 100% charge. Put it on my portable charger for 24 hours and the same story. Put it back in the boat and on a load and when I flip it #1 and fire up the screen I watch the voltage steadily drop. I haven’t tested the new battery yet, but hopefully I dodged a more expensive bullet. Good luck.

. 

[dalt1]

1 hour ago, wdr said:

I just had to replace one of the Interstate  SRM 24s batteries this week. It cranked up fine on launch and performed as usual. Alternator at the typical 15.2v. My first indication was the wedge stow button was flickering. Then of course we were floating by the biggest rocks in the Cumberland and it won’t start and we go into clown car mode to push off. Switched to “1+2” and she fires up. I run it on #2 and not a problem or indication the rest of the day. Get it home and plug it in and it charges like normal. Holds a charge for 24 hours with a minor .3 volt drop, but still over 100% charge. Put it on my portable charger for 24 hours and the same story. Put it back in the boat and on a load and when I flip it #1 and fire up the screen I watch the voltage steadily drop. I haven’t tested the new battery yet, but hopefully I dodged a more expensive bullet. Good luck.

. 

I already put 2 new batteries in mine this spring. Had been running on 1 and switched to 2 with same results of no crank from the button push. Pretty sure #2 was full charge as it was straight off a week on charger in garage. Is this and the Main power the same buttons other tan the light in main power one?

Edited June 19, 2022 by dalt1

[wdr]

Guess I will put this on my “next list”. Hope you get it sorted out. Happy Father’s Day.

[dalt1]

3 hours ago, wdr said:

Guess I will put this on my “next list”. Hope you get it sorted out. Happy Father’s Day.

Looks like it was the Start relay on top of the engine. $14 fingers crossed headed to the lake. Got 12 good cycles on the hose in driveway. Think its good.

 

[dalt1]

Guess it will have to go to shop. Got to ramp and could not get it to fire.

[wdr]

Sorry to hear it. I hope they can get you taken care of quickly. 

[dalt1]

7 hours ago, dalt1 said:

Guess it will have to go to shop. Got to ramp and could not get it to fire.

Well I did get to spend fathers day on the boat just didn't plan on all day in the driveway.  I checked every wire connection I could find and reach. Most were tight but one on the starter solenoid was snug but definitely took some more torque. Since that I have not had a failed start again. I will Do multiple starts over the next couple days and see if  my luck holds. Supposed to be taking the boat to Norris Lake Wednesday for long weekend. Our group likes to say, if you are going to own a Malibu you better have friends with them too so at least one of them will work for the weekend.  

[dalt1]

Just to update, ran perfect for the 4 day weekend never missed a start. Best guess was a slightly loose wire on the starter.

 

[pmm009]

I’ve been having inconsistent starts. Seems to be loose wires on the ignition switch. I will be replacing the switch this week in case it’s more than just the lose wire. I would definitely start with the ignition switch whenever troubleshooting the no start! 

[dalt1]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:24 PM, dalt1 said:

Just to update, ran perfect for the 4 day weekend never missed a start. Best guess was a slightly loose wire on the starter.

 

New update, Still driving me nutz!  All wires and connections have been checked. Twice. Starter relay has been swapped.

Beginning to think it is either computer or wiring between Button and Starter. I now have a Jump switch temporarily wired to my starter. Had to use it last week to get a crank. 

The Key will not start it either when she just refuses to crank. Does the key eliminate the button itself telling me that that part of circuit should be good? If I take it to dealer, it will probably not fail.

[justgary]

11 hours ago, dalt1 said:

New update, Still driving me nutz!  All wires and connections have been checked. Twice. Starter relay has been swapped.

Beginning to think it is either computer or wiring between Button and Starter. I now have a Jump switch temporarily wired to my starter. Had to use it last week to get a crank. 

The Key will not start it either when she just refuses to crank. Does the key eliminate the button itself telling me that that part of circuit should be good? If I take it to dealer, it will probably not fail.

Does your jump switch on the starter work reliably every time also?  It could be carbon buildup in the starter causing it to require much higher current, which tends to expose poor connections.  It is fairly easy to clean the starter guts as a DIY.

[dalt1]

6 hours ago, justgary said:

Does your jump switch on the starter work reliably every time also?  It could be carbon buildup in the starter causing it to require much higher current, which tends to expose poor connections.  It is fairly easy to clean the starter guts as a DIY.

Have not been able to Verify this yet as only had 1 fail and jump switch use so far.

Intermittent as heck. May start fine all next weekend! Time will tell again. Probably limp her through till off season. Then in for warranty.

Does the fact that the backup key not work either when failed, rule out the button switch as issue? 

Got this convenient now so will be easy to jump.

[dalt1]

Could it be computer, wouldn't think so?

 

[justgary]

7 hours ago, dalt1 said:

Could it be computer, wouldn't think so?

 

It may be, but would more likely be a bad connection somewhere.  As far as I can tell, the start button is merely a suggestion to the engine that it should start itself.  That suggestion has to get to the computer, then the start signal has to get to the starter.

[Farmdog]

We have 2020 25 LSV that we bought used last year with about 30 hours on it. We had a few issues with it starting last year and had it back to the dealer a couple times to fix it. So far this year it had been pretty good. This week for family vacation the first day took a little while at the ramp to get it to start. Didn’t find and loose wires but eventually got it to start. That was on Monday. Then today had it running this morning and came into the marina and wouldn’t start. Wiggled and checked everything I could and didn’t find anything. So got to tow it the ramp for the 3rd time in the year we have owned it. Dealer has it now to check out. The dealership has been great in trying to figure it out. Last year they did find the battery position switch was cracked and we figured that was the problem but here we are again.