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bm11

Worth it to trade from 2017 23 LSV to 2018 23 LSV?

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bm11

Now that the new 18 has been out for a bit, I'm curious to know everyone's opinion as to whether or not you think the surf wave justifies a trade in after only 1 year of ownership? My boat is used 95% for surfing, and 90% of that is left side, for what it's worth. I have 750 PnP's in the lockers and I have a 1000 pound bow bag that I rarely use because my wife sits up there and generally any other women that come. 

My dealer has offered me a trade difference of $25,000 to trade my 136 hour 2017 that stickered for $148k to a 2018 with a sticker of $168k. So trading for the difference in sticker, plus $5k.

The additional options that I'd be getting with the new boat vs mine are basically the 450 Monsoon vs my 410, the new reversible Wake View rear bench, two sets of REV10's vs my two sets of REV8's, Phender Pro system, PTM clamping racks, and underwater transom lights. Plus of course the new hull and ballast system. 

Curious to know if you would make the trade if you were in my shoes. My biggest concern would be that I'm not sure I'd get enough benefit out of the new hull (unless it's a noticeable difference,) and not sure the additional options aren't depreciation nightmares.

Thoughts?

-BM

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Ronnie

Demo the '18 and see for your self. There's not a lot of difference in my '17 & '18 wakes. The batteries location in the '18 helps a bit with bow rise. '18's L shaped tanks are nice because your PnP fills with the tanks. I went to 550 PnP's in the lockers on the '18. Surfs just as good with less bow rise. The '18's options are where you will pick up value. You'll have to decide if they are worth the upgrade price. The Clamping racks are a game changer though. Just be careful with over clamping soft bottom surfboards. IMO, I don't order the reversible wake bench. With that thing reversed and the two side seats raised, you have created a block in the boat that is hard to move from the front to the back. People just don't move that seat back in the stowed position and they climb over everything to change positions. YMMV lots of buyers like that seat. Get in the boat while you demo and try out all these options.

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bbattiste247

Wow...that scenario is very similar to mine except I am selling mine and then I will build a 2019 23 LSV. I currently own a 2017 23 LSV with 195 hours, a boat we really love. My main concern is comfort. We really like the rounded seats, softer foam and the carpet that covers the fiberglass below the seats. We have dialed in the wave and are a little hesitant, but we know will get a lot of use out of it.  

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bbattiste247
35 minutes ago, bm11 said:

Now that the new 18 has been out for a bit, I'm curious to know everyone's opinion as to whether or not you think the surf wave justifies a trade in after only 1 year of ownership? My boat is used 95% for surfing, and 90% of that is left side, for what it's worth. I have 750 PnP's in the lockers and I have a 1000 pound bow bag that I rarely use because my wife sits up there and generally any other women that come. 

My dealer has offered me a trade difference of $25,000 to trade my 136 hour 2017 that stickered for $148k to a 2018 with a sticker of $168k. So trading for the difference in sticker, plus $5k.

The additional options that I'd be getting with the new boat vs mine are basically the 450 Monsoon vs my 410, the new reversible Wake View rear bench, two sets of REV10's vs my two sets of REV8's, Phender Pro system, PTM clamping racks, and underwater transom lights. Plus of course the new hull and ballast system. 

Curious to know if you would make the trade if you were in my shoes. My biggest concern would be that I'm not sure I'd get enough benefit out of the new hull (unless it's a noticeable difference,) and not sure the additional options aren't depreciation nightmares.

Thoughts?

-BM

As far as trade difference, that sounds phenomenal. I need to sell mine on my own and I think I'll be paying more than that for a less optioned boat. 

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Chappy

Wait for a 19 so you don't have those stupid steps on your sun pad and rear seat!

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Eagleboy99

One word:  no.  Unless you are a baller and don't care that you just ate the first year depreciation so that the next  person gets a killer boat for a great deal.

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wakesonthesnake

Seems like a great deal to me.  You are getting 136 hrs taken off as well.  For most people that is a couple of years worth.  

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Eagleboy99

25K for 136 hrs.  Ouch.

 

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hethj7
8 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

25K for 136 hrs.  Ouch.

 

Did you not read the whole post?  Motor upgrade, Rev 10s, PTM racks, etc.   The difference in sticker plus $5K is what the OP said.   $25K ain’t chump change, but they aren’t identical boats that he is comparing.

 

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Eagleboy99

Yeah, I did.  Speakers?  Some racks and a motor that won't make any diff from what he has now?  The net-net is he is paying the first year depreciation on TWO boats.  He's a baller I guess. ;)

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wakesonthesnake

All of those are desirable upgrades. I would pay for all but the speakers and that is only due to the wife not liking cranked music.

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hethj7
8 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Yeah, I did.  Speakers?  Some racks and a motor that won't make any diff from what he has now?  The net-net is he is paying the first year depreciation on TWO boats.  He's a baller I guess. ;)

We can debate the value of the racks, motor, speakers, etc and if they are worth the price.  Just saying let’s not simplify it and say the OP lost $25K in 136 hours.   Seems to me depreciation was $5K plus whatever the year over year price increase was on an apples to apples boat.  And that is dealer trade, so he would lose less if he wanted to deal with the hassle of a private party sale. 

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Eagleboy99

Like I said *I* wouldn't do it to move up one model year for marginal gains at high cost.  YMMV

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D_Turner

Hard to compare, but you would also have to factor in realized discount on the '17 you purchased and expected discount on the '18(if you were to walk in to buy that leftover '18) from MSRP.

Lets say the 2017 was purchased during a more peak time or custom order which resulted in a 20% discount to MSRP(148K @ 20%) = $118,400

As we are almost into September, 2018s I imagine are starting to be discounted?  Would a 30% discount be possible on a leftover 2018 at this point?  If so, that 168K could be had for $117,600.  So the leftover 2018 could actually be a cheaper boat(due to the time of year) depending on that pesky MSRP discount.

I don't think it is as simple as looking at MSRP only.  Lots of factors.

 

Also, just looking at it strictly from a MSRP standpoint using the same discount of say 25%.  148K x 75% = $111,000      $168k x 75% = $126,000.    So the actual difference in those two boats the average buyer pays off the street is $15,000 and not $20,000 correct?   I think that is where the dealer is making his margin by not having you factor in the typical discount off MSRP and allows him to make the deal seem a little sweeter than it probably is.

Edited by D_Turner

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Eagleboy99

Where he is getting the boat its basically winter (sales-wise).  Drop into the dealer in December with a cheque book and there are deals to be had.  But again, moving up one model  year?  I dunno...

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hethj7
1 hour ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Like I said *I* wouldn't do it to move up one model year for marginal gains at high cost.  YMMV

We are in agreement there.  I wouldn’t jump into an ‘18 if that were the deal either.  

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bm11

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Being that the overwhelming majority of the replies to the topic related to the value of the options and not the difference of the wave, it sounds like my decision should hinge on the value of those options more than any appreciable difference in the boat?

The reason I ask is because I am not a baller. The difference in the wave would need to be substantial for the money to make sense to me. I can see value in all of the options on the boat but at the end of the day I can’t get into the habit of trading every year for $25k. If I did it this time I’d definitely have to keep this boat longer than before, and I could commit to that if the difference were substantial enough. That said, if the wave didn’t justify it, at the end of the day my current speakers are plenty loud, my current engine has plenty of power, and I don’t see the seat getting a ton of use either.

-Bob

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chrisnorem

I have a 2016 23 LSV  (same hull as 2017) and demoed a 2018.  I honestly didn't notice a difference in the surf wave.  I did notice I hate the step pads and would avoid a 2018 because of them.  

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eubanks
On 8/26/2018 at 8:48 AM, chrisnorem said:

I have a 2016 23 LSV  (same hull as 2017) and demoed a 2018.  I honestly didn't notice a difference in the surf wave.  I did notice I hate the step pads and would avoid a 2018 because of them.  

Agreed.  Step pads are a deal killer for us on a 2018.

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Ronnie
19 minutes ago, eubanks said:

Agreed.  Step pads are a deal killer for us on a 2018.

Honestly, I felt the same way about them but at first, after a season with the step pads, they are a non issue. I find that people use them as they were designed and expect it will extend the life of the vinyl.

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SouthsideBoarder
39 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Honestly, I felt the same way about them but at first, after a season with the step pads, they are a non issue. I find that people use them as they were designed and expect it will extend the life of the vinyl.

I agree. I find that people still sit on the seat step and most people do their best to hit them instead of go around them. Would I miss them if they’re gone? No. But I wouldn’t let that stop me from buying a boat I liked if it had them. I personally like the sun deck steps. 

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NWBU
46 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Honestly, I felt the same way about them but at first, after a season with the step pads, they are a non issue. I find that people use them as they were designed and expect it will extend the life of the vinyl.

After 60 hours, I’m in the same camp on the step pads since they haven’t been an issue for us. 

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Tranner

How much more freeboard is there in the 2018 vs. 2017?  I know the description says that the 2018 LSV is deeper, but that doesn't explain how much (if any) additional freeboard was added with the new hull design.

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Five Cent Worth
On 8/26/2018 at 7:28 AM, bm11 said:

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Being that the overwhelming majority of the replies to the topic related to the value of the options and not the difference of the wave, it sounds like my decision should hinge on the value of those options more than any appreciable difference in the boat?

The reason I ask is because I am not a baller. The difference in the wave would need to be substantial for the money to make sense to me. I can see value in all of the options on the boat but at the end of the day I can’t get into the habit of trading every year for $25k. If I did it this time I’d definitely have to keep this boat longer than before, and I could commit to that if the difference were substantial enough. That said, if the wave didn’t justify it, at the end of the day my current speakers are plenty loud, my current engine has plenty of power, and I don’t see the seat getting a ton of use either.

-Bob

Great thread.  Thanks for starting.  We would be looking at moving up from a VLX to 18 LSV.  For room and a few features that we desire. 

Curious, did the dealer approach you?  Or did you approach them?  

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bbattiste247
4 hours ago, eubanks said:

Agreed.  Step pads are a deal killer for us on a 2018.

And me too!

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