LSV vs Nautique GS22 vs Retiring someday

[FSSPCat]

A friend bought an XT22 last year. The surf wave behind it is exceptional. Very comparable to another friends G23. 

[teamerickson]

3 minutes ago, FSSPCat said:

A friend bought an XT22 last year. The surf wave behind it is exceptional. Very comparable to another friends G23. 

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, 3sport said:

As far as I know, PWII doesn't impact surfing any more than the original wedge and the '14 through '17 run the same hull, so they should be apples to apples when it comes to comparing surf wakes - no?  But you're right, with the changes to the latest LSV hull it isn't a proper comparison...

I’d strongly disagree with that. There is a significant difference in the surf wave between a PW1 2014 LSV and a PWII 2015 LSV weighted the same. The lift feature of PWII is out for debate. Most say it has zero impact for surfing some say it helps. 

[3sport]

1 hour ago, ajive said:

What kind of ballast setup is he running?

he's running stock - i.e. no extra bags.  

[FSSPCat]

10 hours ago, teamerickson said:

 

Actually not joking. To be fair the one time I surfed the XT22 it was just stock ballast and about 5 adults in the boat. The G was stock ballast and more people. The G is better, but I was pretty impressed with the XT. 

[Fman]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:27 AM, ajive said:

LOL, JK, it's between the LSV and the GS22!

So I've been pretty inactive on this site for a while, but fear not, I linger to keep tabs on all the new comings and goings of Malibu and to drool over everyone's boat orders every spring!  In the meantime, I added a kid to the family and my VTX just doesn't cut it anymore.  Great boat, but too small to fit a pack of 2-4 year olds and their parents.  So, I think this is the year I take my swing and get into a dream-boat.

I'm in the middle of the LSV and the GS22.  I'm not convinced if the GS can build the surf wake I want (we are 90% surf, 5% wake, 5% ski) but am going to demo it this week to find out.  Would be very interested if any of you have experience with this boat and how it does once dialed in (over in planet nautique the jury really seems to be out, but I'm not convinced many over there put in the time and experimentation that we do over here to get it just right).

As for the LSV, there is a fully loaded, acceptably colored one in stock that I could see in my garage for the next 5-10.  It would save me a not-insignificant amount of money and I know exactly what to expect in terms of the wave, the systems, and the overall quality.  Sounds like a no-brainer, but the wife and I both prefer the look and feel of the Nautique,  and the dealer is a huge upgrade... the Malibus sell themselves where I'm at the the dealer knows it.  After-sale service and communication does not come close to meeting my expectations.  

In regards to the current generation of Malibus, how is everything holding up?  In my boat's era (2013) I recall there being, and have experienced, some nits and picks on quality... touch screens going out, graphics peeling, stereo issues, etc.  Also, how has the raptor been performing and is there any negatives about getting one of the last ones before the block change again?

Any suggestions, experience, or commiseration is appreciated! 

I've been in a GS22, dont waist your time, no freeboard and the surf wave is mediocre at best.  I'm a fan of Nautique but that boat is not the one to buy for surfing.  I demoed one right after I was in the new A24 and 23 LSV.  Hands down the LSV was superior over the GS22.

The Raptor has been a great engine, I have owned boats with the 350 and 409 and Raptor 410 takes it for torque and also easy maintenance and winterizing.  I have 135 hours on my Raptor so longevity is still a question but my guess would be it will go long term with proper maintenance and care.  Time will tell...

Malibu's and all brands hold up as well as there owners take care of them.  Very subjective question, so many different variables.  Storage, maintenance, how they use them, climates, etc... etc... your covered for 5 years which is some good peace of mind.

Just buy the LSV and be done with it.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Fman

[Sailvi767]

14 hours ago, ajive said:

I've been watching available videos and the 18 LSV is clearly able to make a big, steep, long wave.  That's not what I always want, but it's fun to really push out to the flats sometimes just for show!  I haven't seen a GS with anything close visually, but it could feel better.  Guess I'll find out tonight.

 

Another question for current owners.  Is the 410 enough engine?  I just realized that it's 350 hp (I thought 410 represented the power... tricky marketing).  My monsoon 350 isn't able to hold surf speed sometimes when fully loaded.

The standard PCM in nautique is 409hp. 

Your Monsoon 350 is really 297 HP measured the same way as the 410.

[ahopkins22LSV]

@IXFE @G Spot @Pnwrider All have the Raptor 6.2l 410 and can comment better on performance. It’s going to mainly factor on you elevation, crew size and activity though. 

[Stevo]

15 hours ago, 3sport said:

he's running stock - i.e. no extra bags.  

14’lsv needs and wants a bunch of PNP weight and a 2315/2419 prop to push it. I’d put up the 14’ lsv wave properly weighted up against a GS anytime.

I haven’t surfed a GS And I agree with @Fman  above . I was not impressed  with the boat, granted I stepped out of a G25 (big ole beast) and into the GS22 and then Gs24 and was like Meh.... 

as far as the motor you will be fine with the 410 and 2:1 trans.

IMHO Malibu should have offered a 17in prop on the 23 this year and hopefully add it next year.

[ajive]

Can confirm, the wave leaves a lot to be desired.  We were able to build it up pretty well, but there was just no way to lengthen it.  The curl was SO close, and while it looked impressive, it would just slam you if you got out of the primary pocket.  Between that and the lack of storage space, the GS is out.

I'm a little disappointed because there is a lot to like about what Nautique is doing.  The PCM engine is super quiet and powerful, the helm is clean and easy to use, etc, etc.  I wish my dealer had a SAN230 to try because I think that comps better to the LSV, but he doesn't so I can't really fathom ordering something I've never seen or tried.

So unless I get cold feet before the dealership opens...

[jaciche]

20 minutes ago, ajive said:

That's a nice looking boat! The small amount of metal flake is a nice touch, and I like white towers.

[3sport]

4 hours ago, Stevo said:

14’lsv needs and wants a bunch of PNP weight and a 2315/2419 prop to push it. I’d put up the 14’ lsv wave properly weighted up against a GS anytime.

I haven’t surfed a GS And I agree with @Fman  above . I was not impressed  with the boat, granted I stepped out of a G25 (big ole beast) and into the GS22 and then Gs24 and was like Meh.... 

as far as the motor you will be fine with the 410 and 2:1 trans.

IMHO Malibu should have offered a 17in prop on the 23 this year and hopefully add it next year.

I was referring to the GS20 in saying he ran only stock.  As for the '14LSV, I'm not claiming to be a surf wave svengali, but in addition to stock I run 750s in the rear, 500lbs of lead, and a 650lb bow bag.  I try to run the surf-side locker bag a little fuller than the non-surf side to create a bit of a list.  Speed is 10.8 to 11.2.  If I try to run wedge 2 to 3 clicks up, I have trouble maintaining or hitting speed with the 409 and 2315 prop.  Elevation is about 1100 ft.  The wave is big and meaty (and long or steep depending on amount of wedge), but doesn't have the push of the GS.  That was my sole point in my original post - that the push of the GS was insane, especially for such a small boat.  But this is all moot as ahop was correct to point out that a '14 isn't comparable to the new LSVs.  I'm gonna try running a little less weight this year.  Cheers.

Edited July 18, 2018 by 3sport
mistakenly referred to 410 instead of 409

[Pnwrider]

No issues with the raptor 410 in my 23 lsv. I’m close to sea level, but just got back from a week of boating between 2500-3000 feet of elevation. I run the bigger wakemakers plug and play (580s) and was able to plane out fully loaded (took awhile though) and had no issues loaded heavy for surfing. 

[ajive]

1 hour ago, Pnwrider said:

No issues with the raptor 410 in my 23 lsv. I’m close to sea level, but just got back from a week of boating between 2500-3000 feet of elevation. I run the bigger wakemakers plug and play (580s) and was able to plane out fully loaded (took awhile though) and had no issues loaded heavy for surfing. 

What's your surf ballast setup?

[TallRedRider]

On 7/16/2018 at 7:33 PM, ajive said:

Well, I put down a deposit to hold a great looking LSV on the lot.  Still can bail if the GS happens to blow me away in performance but looking like I'll be a crew member for few more years!  If all goes well I'll be breaking her in Friday.

I love my Nautique, but it seems that the GS series has not been the winner overall they were hoping for.  It seems it doesn't do anything good enough to leave you satisfied.  I think it does boil down to you cannot have a boat that does everything well.  Buy a boat that does your primary activity best, and then live with tweaking the other things the best you can.   I have a buddy with a direct drive ski boat and it actually surfs pretty darn well when we sack it out.  It is not a G23 or LSV, but a very nice shaped, surfable wave.  

Nautique has a 5 year warranty, so you are stuck with that dealer for a long time, and warranty issues are very likely to come up in the beginning and at the end.  When I leave Nauti (hint, hint) it will be because of the hard time I am having getting service done.  (I don't recall Malibu warranty).  But the point being that dealing with a dealer that isn't meeting your needs is super frustrating and you WILL need them eventually.   

[ajive]

4 minutes ago, TallRedRider said:

I love my Nautique, but it seems that the GS series has not been the winner overall they were hoping for.  It seems it doesn't do anything good enough to leave you satisfied.  I think it does boil down to you cannot have a boat that does everything well.  Buy a boat that does your primary activity best, and then live with tweaking the other things the best you can.   I have a buddy with a direct drive ski boat and it actually surfs pretty darn well when we sack it out.  It is not a G23 or LSV, but a very nice shaped, surfable wave.  

Nautique has a 5 year warranty, so you are stuck with that dealer for a long time, and warranty issues are very likely to come up in the beginning and at the end.  When I leave Nauti (hint, hint) it will be because of the hard time I am having getting service done.  (I don't recall Malibu warranty).  But the point being that dealing with a dealer that isn't meeting your needs is super frustrating and you WILL need them eventually.   

Malibu increased the warranty to 5 years as well, so I'll have another 5 years with my local "meh" dealer.  That was one of the biggest reasons I was shopping Natique.  But, I'm rolling the dice that I won't need them bad or a lot so that I can have a boat the performs the way I want it to!

FWIW, if I had a covered slip somewhere and and extra $50k I'd be all over the G23, but I have neither of those things.  I guess we all settle in some way... That's why there are billionaires building 300' yachts.  You could always have just a little better boat....

Still, I've been dreaming of an LSV since I had my first I/O runabout.  I'm pumped that things have gone well and I'm about to put one in my garage!

[IXFE]

9 hours ago, Stevo said:

14’lsv needs and wants a bunch of PNP weight and a 2315/2419 prop to push it. I’d put up the 14’ lsv wave properly weighted up against a GS anytime.

I haven’t surfed a GS And I agree with @Fman  above . I was not impressed  with the boat, granted I stepped out of a G25 (big ole beast) and into the GS22 and then Gs24 and was like Meh.... 

as far as the motor you will be fine with the 410 and 2:1 trans.

IMHO Malibu should have offered a 17in prop on the 23 this year and hopefully add it next year.

I was with @Stevo that night. He’s telling the truth. He really did say “meh” really loud. It was kind of embarrassing, to be honest. 

@Fman was also with us.  His advice on this topic is spot on. Don’t overthink this. Nautique is a one boat company (okay maybe two). I see a lot of people buying GS or 230 cuz they want the G but are scared to step up, so they “settle” for the lesser boat with the idea that it “should” perform like the big dog. Nope. Seeing a guy regret a six figure toy and take a bath in it a year later is a sad site, but I’ve witnessed it a bunch lately. Don’t be that guy. Either step up to the G23 or get the 23 LSV and save yourself $30k. 

That’s the nice thing about the current line up of Wakesetters. Pick a size and you’re done. No single boat gives up a lot to the biggest ones. They all good; all similar to eachother. 

Oh, and @3sport, the PWII is 20% bigger than the original PW. It makes a difference. 

[3sport]

 

13 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I was with @Stevo that night. He’s telling the truth. He really did say “meh” really loud. It was kind of embarrassing, to be honest. 

@Fman was also with us.  His advice on this topic is spot on. Don’t overthink this. Nautique is a one boat company (okay maybe two). I see a lot of people buying GS or 230 cuz they want the G but are scared to step up, so they “settle” for the lesser boat with the idea that it “should” perform like the big dog. Nope. Seeing a guy regret a six figure toy and take a bath in it a year later is a sad site, but I’ve witnessed it a bunch lately. Don’t be that guy. Either step up to the G23 or get the 23 LSV and save yourself $30k. 

That’s the nice thing about the current line up of Wakesetters. Pick a size and you’re done. No single boat gives up a lot to the biggest ones. They all good; all similar to eachother. 

Oh, and @3sport, the PWII is 20% bigger than the original PW. It makes a difference. 

What is the effect of the bigger PWII wedge vs the old wedge from a surfing perspective?  Does it allow you to create a steeper/lippier wake without using as much wedge?  I always thought of the PWII as a wakeboarding tool to help the boat get on plane when its all sacked out.  By the sounds of it my '14 with 409 couldn't handle the PWII as it can't or can barely handle the original.    

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, 3sport said:

 

What is the effect of the bigger PWII wedge vs the old wedge from a surfing perspective?  Does it allow you to create a steeper/lippier wake without using as much wedge?  I always thought of the PWII as a wakeboarding tool to help the boat get on plane when its all sacked out.  By the sounds of it my '14 with 409 couldn't handle the PWII as it can't or can barely handle the original.    

You’re focusing on only one of the PWII benefits, the lift feature (which is great for wakeboarding heavy). The other benefit was the surface area increase. More surface area = more drag = more stern in the water = more water displaced = bigger wave with more push. The other benefit is each change in position has a more noticeable effect on the wave shape  

I noticed the difference going from my ‘14 to my ‘15. Also my ‘15 had the 409 and it was fine, but I was running a bow triangle (which I view as necessary on that hull)

[Pnwrider]

5 hours ago, ajive said:

What's your surf ballast setup?

Fill all, wedge 2 clicks up, usually 4-6 adults and a few kids. Usually try and get one or two people to sit in the bow. 

[ajive]

2 hours ago, Pnwrider said:

Fill all, wedge 2 clicks up, usually 4-6 adults and a few kids. Usually try and get one or two people to sit in the bow. 

Nice.  I should be rock solid then.  I ordered the larger pnp bags and have a 1000lb triangle.  If I can get away with a quick 500 in the bow or the standard 3 girls up there I'll be happy as a clam!  For the cost increased since my 2013 bags in the cabin should be unnecessary! 

Getting excited!