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Joeprunc

No Power to Perfect Pass

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Joeprunc

I have a 06 Response LXI with 3 event Stargazer Perfect Pass.  This weekend I upgraded my software to V9.12 (as this was suppose to help with the entrance speed/overshooting going into our course).  I got one day with it and the new software did seem to make a significant difference.

However, yesterday I took the boat out for a ride and after a 5-10 minute idle in a no wake zone, the PP screen just went blank, no power, nothing.  After trouble shooting a bit, it appears that I'm not getting power to the master module.  The 2006 DBW PP has a plug and play application which uses existing wiring harness connectors from Malibu to connect easily.  So there isn't a fuse that I can see between the 12v  source and the module.  Instead there are four wires coming directly from the boat wiring harness that combine to a smaller pigtail, Green (paddle wheel), Grey (RPM), Black (-), and Purple (12V) (which provides signal/voltage in the 14 pin connector to the PP Module).  Using a volt meter, the purple wire is measuring 0 volts.  I'm assuming this is the culprit for my issue.

I'm working with PP right now and they are providing a lot of help.  But I'm asking the Malibu Crew if anyone has experienced something like this.  And more importantly if there is a hidden fuse between purple wire and boat.  I've checked the breakers, and non of which are tripped. 

Tonight I'm going to try to run a dummy wire from my battery (with a fuse) to the purple wire, to see if I can get power to the system.

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Joeprunc

Update from last night, 

Ran a dummy wire to module, and a dummy ground. The Display now has a back light, but no beeping, buttons don't work. Checked the plug and play wiring from the Malibu wiring harness, and that now has correct voltage. Plugged the plug and play into the module...same results as the dummy wire, back light and no beeping, or button functions.

Talked with PP, it sounds like the module took a dive. By the way Perfect Pass customer support is second to none!

To throw a question in...I do not ski tournaments, nor ever will, but want to weigh the option for Zbox now that I'm paying shipping from Canada. For someone just skiing for fun is Zbox worth the extra $$, or is V9.12 w/ Stargazer sufficinet? We only have one club member that has Zbox, and I do really enjoy skiing behind his boat (ski at A1). I am just dabbling at getting into -28' @ 34mph

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Slayer

Happy to hear you had such a good experience with PP.  

I think that even if you don't plan on skiing in tournaments, you would benefit from Zbox if you're upping your game, or if you're skiing any other boats with ZO.  @ahopkinsTXi or @Woodski or @onamission may have some beneficial comments as well. 

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ahopkinsVTX

I personally don’t have any experience with zbox but as @inlandlaker mentioned if you are pushing yourself to continually get better it might be worth it! You are already dabbling in -28 which is a whole different ball game and you don’t want the boat to be an inconsistent factor. There is enough going on at the handle end of the rope! 

Great skiing too. Getting to a consistent -22 is a “game changer” have fun at -28. If you free Ski at all, go at -28. It will help you get used to the whip. Just don’t pull too long. 

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onamission

I have not upgraded to the Z-Box.  I have skied with it but never could get the settings to be like I ski with ZO and to be honest the people that I ski with at home have no real idea on how to drive and use.PP.  If you're not skiing tournaments I wouldn't upgrade.

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Woodski

I have shied away from upgrading to Z box due to the issues particularly on a short pull up with overspeed issues.  It seems that it takes more finesse from the driver to keep the boat doing what you want.  Since you have the system and the upgrade chip, certainly try to get it working but I would not spend much money on it given your feedback.  From what I can tell, one of the best ways to emulate ZO is to use PP classic with a switch and set the pull to + or ++ (which emulates B and C, so maybe classic straight up is like A).   You might give that a try to see what you think, you can as I understand run in that mode even with stargazer.  You might try Ski-it-Again or Great Lakes Skipper to see if any used modules are available (probably not but worth a look).

BTW - PP classic is very straightforward and the ones on our lake that are not really PP savvy do a fine job with it.  For sure don't go back to hand throttle.

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Joeprunc

Thanks for all the replies.  Skiing with just RPMs doesn't work where we ski, we have wind and tidal current to contend with, and its very difficult to get accurate times, if you have a good driver by the third or fourth pass you know what to adjust going west vs east.  The GPS worked great, and eliminated that constant adjustment of RPMs, but one end we have a short setup and new drivers made buoy 1 and 2 very hot for a skier.  Again good driver makes  a big difference.  My big thing this year is to get my GF comfortable enough to drive me through the course, and make the boat as driver friendly as possible.  The V9.12 software was a good upgrade (until my MM took a crap).  As it used GPS and had the course mapped, so it knew where 1 ball is and slowed down better.  It also had better algorithm to not overshoot, and easier to come out of PP speed lock.  The new software upgrade with or without Zbox should help with short entrances.  

I ended up going with Z box and a new module, they gave me a decent deal after working through things.  Honestly I upgraded because the other boat in the club that has Z Box I really enjoy skiing behind, the pulls seem to be more consistant.   I don't care if it feels like ZO, but again want it to be easier on the driver.

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ahopkinsVTX

Sounds like a solid decision! Ski Good my friend. And perfect pass does have some of the best customer service out there!

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Woodski

+1, makes total sense given your conditions.  Most importantly, you now have a chance of keeping the GF, w/o PP probably not:)  They don't call PP divorce saver for nothing and can be an instant relationship improver, happy driver, happy skier.

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Joeprunc
On 7/11/2018 at 2:31 PM, Woodski said:

+1, makes total sense given your conditions.  Most importantly, you now have a chance of keeping the GF, w/o PP probably not:)  They don't call PP divorce saver for nothing and can be an instant relationship improver, happy driver, happy skier.

Yep it is truly a marriage saver, I was not going to put my boat back in the water without some form of a functioning PP.  I got the module and z box in and hope to have it in tonight, and try it out this weekend.

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Joeprunc

Got it installed very easily.  Had a hell of a time getting it dialed.  Without a skier its perfect...with a skier its another story.  Hot gate, 1 and 2 balls at all speeds.  

Did a lot of research on BOS and emailing with PPass, will try this weekend again to see if I can dial it in more.  Going to do the controller test, then invert RPMs.  If that doesn't work then I'll follow the rest below.  (I figured I'd share the email incase anyone else had issues in the future)

 

Quote

If the baselines are not accurate, inverting the RPM and recalibrating should solve this. Your boat should really have no problems settling down and getting great times. The inverting setting reads the other side of the RPM pulse. A lot of Malibu boats run much better with inverted RPM.

If a boat is working properly, the baselines should be fine. Lowering the baselines by 50 RPM might help the system lock on faster but I would think this boat should be fine with the standard calibrations.

Adjusting the background settings can help if you are already very close to actual times. You press the ON/OFF and UP key at the same time to access the background settings.

The control test should hold around 1750 RPM at 1.0v. The RPM should be very stable. If the RPM surges when you turn on electrical devices, like a stereo, we need to move the ground wire to the engine block. Some Malibu boats are grounded to the engine block so this might not be a problem. It is worth checking into.

If the CRS is too high, the system will over shoot and have a hard time slowing down. If the CRS is too low the system will surge down and disengage several times. The CRS is only used for the first few seconds of engagement. You can try lowing the CRS and see if it locks on faster, you will know when you get the CRS too low.

 

Edited by Joeprunc

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justgary

In my opinion, PP doesn't have the bandwidth required to capture speed quickly if you just juice the throttle and leave it.  I find that it works best if you get the skier up and then pull the throttle back to just above the desired RPM.  The more throttle you give it, the slower it is at capturing the set speed. 

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tvano

i've read (on tmc) that the flare/over-speed prior to maintaining good speed control is due to a weak return spring on the throttle plate

my rig has it bad but can't sort out a good method to increase spring tension (without a complete tear-down of the throttle body)

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Woodski

@Joeprunc:  BOS does have some excellent threads on tuning Stargazer.  Make sure you read Ed Obermeier's (EZEd) tuning thread, he gives a good description on tuning it, although it is for the previous software release so may not be as valid if you are on the current release.  There are also some threads on (I think by Eleski and others) that help tune out or tone down the running hot at entry & 1 via baseline and skier settings.  The new software helps a lot as I understand.  The return spring tension is very important to get a good feedback loop for PP, as noted, PP likes a lot of spring tension and that calms down the throttle oscillations.  Good luck tuning.

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Joeprunc

Thanks guys, the inverting the RPMs helped at 34.2 speeds, but not at slower speeds.  And this is with a very gradual speed increase, or with just hammering the throttle.  I have a DBW system, so there is no spring or solenoid to adjust.  

The big issue with out course is the West end entrance is very driver dependent on good speed at the gates.  There is a 90 degree left to be made and maybe 150-200 feet before you hit the 55s.  The best approach is to take the turn about 2-3 mph slower than the speed through the course (so PP does not engage), and gently increase the speed at the tail end of the turn as you enter, and engage in that short section before the 55s.  With a good driver this is very achievable.  With the new changes, at 34.2 mph it was working great for my skills as a skier.  My driver was saying at the 55s speed was around 34.5 mph, but settled down to 34.2 at the gates (this is fine, and I have no issues with this).  Times are good and speed through the course is very consistent.  However at slower speeds (26.7, 28.6 with the Feather setting for my wife) speeds at the 55s are 2-3 mph higher than desired speed, and not actually settling into speed until ball 2 or 3.   I've tried adjusting the baselines as well, and that hasn't helped much.  With the control test, I'm going to try to run dedicated wires, and also lower the CRS by 50-100 rpms.  I guess I was just really fortunate that the previous owner of this boat had the V7 SG just dialed.....I wish I would have know and saved the baselines he had.

Maybe I'm paying more attention to numbers, speeds, and times now vs the old V7 of Stargazer.  But the whole reason for this upgrade is, I'm really trying to get my wife into skiing the course more, and building her confidence in skiing, and also help so its easier for her to pull me.

 

On a side note, I did get around 5 ball at -28 this weekend :)...

Edited by Joeprunc

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Joeprunc

Went out last night for a quick ski.  I seem to have it even better dialed.  Speeds, times (at buoys), and entrance speed all were near perfect.

Adjusted ball 1 timing for Normal, feather, and Light by -2

Adjusted CRS to from 1900 rpm to 1850 rpm.  

 

Was very happy last night.

 

Edited by Joeprunc

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