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Ndawg12

Ignition Issues

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Ndawg12

My boat has never really started smoothly or easily on cold starts.  It used to turn over 6-8 times before firing up, and on warm restarts it always popped right off.  I was concerned about the long cranking cold starts at first but after talking with other Hammerhead owners it sounded pretty normal.

All this season the cold starts crank longer every time out and the restarts are longer and very "clumsy" when it does fire.  I pulled the cap and rotor, they didn't look great but I've seen worse.  I've wanted to change my wires for a while now so I pulled them, and I pulled the coil.  I did not have time to inspect the plugs.

It seems to run fine, i can still run up to 5300 rpm and still pulls my surf weight at the rpm.  The only thing different is that it searches a little more at idle.  It used to idle at 650 + or - 20, now I'd say it's more erratic like +- 60.  Fuel pressure stays around 60 psi.

I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I got no continuity on the coil wire or any spark plug wires, and the coil ohmed out at 0 on all combinations of the 3 pins which research tells me is not good.  Not sure how the boat even started let alone run.

I've got plugs, wires, cap, and rotor on order, thoughts on if I should pull the trigger on a coil?  Any other insight?

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Edited by Ndawg12

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BLSousa

My recommendation is that the cap and rotor will fix the problem. The symptoms you describe are very typical of cap corrosion (which is also visible in the pic). Good luck with the tune up and getting out on the water. 

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MadMan
1 hour ago, Ndawg12 said:

I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I got no continuity on the coil wire or any spark plug wires, and the coil ohmed out at 0 on all combinations of the 3 pins which research tells me is not good.  Not sure how the boat even started let alone run.

 

You have your meter set on the wrong scale, should be on ohms, not continuity.

Also, I've not seen the business end of these newer distributor caps.  The terminals are round.  The terminals o traditional caps have machined flats to give a larger area for the rotor to send the spark through.

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wakesonthesnake

I just replaced cap, rotor, plugs and wires on my 06' Hammerhead this year and it seemed to clean up the idle and helped the warm start, never had an issue with the cold start. The previous owner said it had all been replaced but when I pulled the plugs they had block paint on them.  Not sure how old yours is but my rotor looked about the same and the blue plug wires have been out of stock for some time.  It will probably make the difference you are looking for, mine did.  Don't forget the anti-seize and dielectric grease.  I don't remember who posted about cutting a plug socket down and using a wrench on the end but it was great advice and saved some foul language.

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Ndawg12

Ok madman was correct and I was using the wrong setting for measuring ohms. My wires measured from 8 to 15. However, my coil is still reading 0 resistance which I’ve read is a failed coil...?

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JasonK

I just had to replace my distributor cap and rotor for the 2nd time this summer. It's only been 3 1/2 months, about 40 hours. I used Accell parts. Going to get Indmar or other brand next time.

This Saturday the boat started, idled for 10 minutes and then died and would not re-start. Same thing it did before. This time I check the dist. cap and it seems a little loose, so I replaced it and the rotor. BAM started right up. My buddys Chevy Suburban with the same looking cap had these problems about 8 years ago. That's why I suspected a bad cap.

The cap I bought comes with oversize screws and the instructions say it's common for the mounting threads on the distributor to strip, and only use the oversize screws if necessary. The first cap came with screws with blue loctite. The 2nd cap didn't have any instructions and original screws (not oversized) and no locktite. Both were Accell brand. I'm still using the original with loctite I add each time. I think one of my mounts are stripped.

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Ndawg12
1 hour ago, JasonK said:

I just had to replace my distributor cap and rotor for the 2nd time this summer. It's only been 3 1/2 months, about 40 hours. I used Accell parts. Going to get Indmar or other brand next time.

This Saturday the boat started, idled for 10 minutes and then died and would not re-start. Same thing it did before. This time I check the dist. cap and it seems a little loose, so I replaced it and the rotor. BAM started right up. My buddys Chevy Suburban with the same looking cap had these problems about 8 years ago. That's why I suspected a bad cap.

The cap I bought comes with oversize screws and the instructions say it's common for the mounting threads on the distributor to strip, and only use the oversize screws if necessary. The first cap came with screws with blue loctite. The 2nd cap didn't have any instructions and original screws (not oversized) and no locktite. Both were Accell brand. I'm still using the original with loctite I add each time. I think one of my mounts are stripped.

I've checked my cap and rotor and it's tight.  The boat starts every time, and still runs like a raped ape, especially now that it's tuned up.  It just seems like as time goes by it cranks more and more before firing off.  Right when I bought it 5 years ago it would crank a few extra times on the first start up but on re-starts it would crank and fire right away.  Now it takes like 6 seconds (to the point I'm almost uncomfortable spinning the starter that long)  to fire on the first start up and several cranks on restarts.  

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formulaben
2 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

It just seems like as time goes by it cranks more and more before firing off.  Right when I bought it 5 years ago it would crank a few extra times on the first start up but on re-starts it would crank and fire right away.  Now it takes like 6 seconds (to the point I'm almost uncomfortable spinning the starter that long)  to fire on the first start up and several cranks on restarts.  

Try keying up once or twice before actually starting it and see if that changes anything.

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Ndawg12
37 minutes ago, formulaben said:

Try keying up once or twice before actually starting it and see if that changes anything.

I do that as well, trying to prime the system with a couple key cycles, I noticed it helps a little bit but not much.

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Falko

Did you replace the plugs? Run some fuel cleaner through the engine as well, like two tanks worth of mix. If the injectors start to get fouled they will not atomize the fuel that well. 

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Bozboat
3 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

I've checked my cap and rotor and it's tight.  The boat starts every time, and still runs like a raped ape, especially now that it's tuned up.  It just seems like as time goes by it cranks more and more before firing off.  Right when I bought it 5 years ago it would crank a few extra times on the first start up but on re-starts it would crank and fire right away.  Now it takes like 6 seconds (to the point I'm almost uncomfortable spinning the starter that long)  to fire on the first start up and several cranks on restarts.  

Do you have a throttle position sensor or idle air controller or some type of cam sensor on that beast?

Edited by Bozboat

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Ndawg12
6 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Do you have a throttle position sensor or idle air controller or some type of cam sensor on that beast?

I believe the TPS is built into the throttle body...?  And I think the IAC is this thingy..

 

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Bozboat
16 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

I believe the TPS is built into the throttle body...?  And I think the IAC is this thingy..

 

hTuY4Et.jpg

 

 

IDK, I am unclear on that engine, on the basic monsoon they are on the side of the throttle body.  I replaced both IAC and TPS a few years ago and that solved my long crank to start issue. 

 

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Throttle Position Sensor

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Idle Air Controller

Edited by Bozboat

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Ndawg12
17 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

IDK, I am unclear on that engine, on the basic monsoon they are on the side of the throttle body.  I replaced both IAC and TPS a few years ago and that solved my long crank to start issue. 

 

You may be on to something.  Also, I've always had an issue where if I'm revving the engine in the driveway (to impress the neighbors of course) and I bring it back to neutral too quickly, the engine will stumble and sometimes stall out completely.  I always thought that was odd and wonder if the 2 symptoms are related to a common failing part...?

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Bozboat
26 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

You may be on to something.  Also, I've always had an issue where if I'm revving the engine in the driveway (to impress the neighbors of course) and I bring it back to neutral too quickly, the engine will stumble and sometimes stall out completely.  I always thought that was odd and wonder if the 2 symptoms are related to a common failing part...?

Mine got to a point with cold starts that I felt like a boat ramp hog trying to get it to run.  Warm starts were not a problem.  Replaced both because they were replaceable, right near each other, and I didn't have time to figure out which one was bad or both.  After replacing both, the boat starts on about a 2-3 second spin cold and about 1-2 second spin warm.  

Edited by Bozboat

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formulaben

Me too.  Was stupid simple:

 

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csleaver
7 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

I believe the TPS is built into the throttle body...?  And I think the IAC is this thingy..

 

hTuY4Et.jpg

 

 

In 2007 the TPS is integrated into the electric throttle and can only be replaced as a complete throttle body unit.  There is no IAC valve, the throttle valve is opened and closed to regulate the idle speed using the electric throttle body actuator.  The thing you circled in the photo is the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.

Is the intake flame arrester / filter clean?  I would check that first.  If the spark plugs, HVS cap, rotor, and wires haven't been changed in the last couple of seasons, I think that would be the next best, and easiest, thing to do.

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skurfer
8 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

I believe the TPS is built into the throttle body...?  And I think the IAC is this thingy..

 

hTuY4Et.jpg

 

 

That is the MAP sensor

 

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Ndawg12
10 hours ago, csleaver said:

In 2007 the TPS is integrated into the electric throttle and can only be replaced as a complete throttle body unit.  There is no IAC valve, the throttle valve is opened and closed to regulate the idle speed using the electric throttle body actuator.  The thing you circled in the photo is the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.

Is the intake flame arrester / filter clean?  I would check that first.  If the spark plugs, HVS cap, rotor, and wires haven't been changed in the last couple of seasons, I think that would be the next best, and easiest, thing to do.

This was all done and new plugs less than 10 hrs ago.  Anyone have an extra throttle body laying around that I could borrow ;):whistle:?

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Bozboat

Maybe try a can of sensor safe throttle body cleaner.  I used a can of Mercury Marine Throttle Body Cleaner a year or two ago.

 

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justgary
On 8/22/2018 at 9:27 AM, Bozboat said:

Maybe try a can of sensor safe throttle body cleaner.  I used a can of Mercury Marine Throttle Body Cleaner a year or two ago.

 

What he said.  Definitely clean the throttle body before you throw parts at it. 

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