M235 sale price discussion

[TenTwentyOne]

9 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

If I were a dealer of any of those who revealed their price, I would feel somewhat betrayed if the discount I gave to them was more than I give to most.  The next thing I know some bozo comes to my dealership expecting XX% discount and I might lose a sale, when I refuse to give it.  Next time the guy that revealed his discount all over the internet comes to the dealership, his discount just got less because of fear that is now the discount I have to give everyone.  

But I'm not a dealer, so I could be all off base here.  

And then there is the other side of that coin....... Periodically price gouging the consumer, that has no option to shop around.....

both sides of the argument have merit IMO. Maybe I only posted actual data because of the confusion on margin differences between competing brands. Not so much to reinforce the negotiation ability on a specific brand.

One thing that I have learned lately, is that those brand research documents that @IXFE has seen in the past actually do exist. Competing dealers get sales data, margin data, model volume data, and even a list of people that a competing dealer has sold a boat to recently, and what they paid.......... I’ll be honest, I thought he was exaggerating data sometimes 

those reports do exist. Now, who has more info than who?? Dealer or consumer?

Edited June 29, 2018 by TenTwentyOne

[05hammerhead]

I laugh every time the HR lady at work mentions the "you cant talk about your salary"  Is that because youre paying me more than you pay everyone else(not likely) or because youre hosing me and dont want me to figure out Im underpaid?  I imagine the same is true for boats.  Paying 1XX,XXX for a boat to me means youve gotta love the heck outta it when youre writing the check and at that point, youre likely not going to settle for your second choice boat.  Very much a catch 22.  If you went into it saying Id be happy with an Ri237, 23LSV or a G23 and just negotiated till you got the best value you might get that low low price, but going in saying I love the new 23LSV, Ive gotta have it, theyve got no reason to move. 

[TenTwentyOne]

^ This....

I do a lot of demos and shopping around....... and then I go after the boat that topped the list. I’d have a hard time settling for my second or third choice 

[M235Ozark]

10 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

If I were a dealer of any of those who revealed their price, I would feel somewhat betrayed if the discount I gave to them was more than I give to most.  The next thing I know some bozo comes to my dealership expecting XX% discount and I might lose a sale, when I refuse to give it.  Next time the guy that revealed his discount all over the internet comes to the dealership, his discount just got less because of fear that is now the discount I have to give everyone.  

But I'm not a dealer, so I could be all off base here.  

That would be the case if we all called out the dealer we bought from, but myself or anyone else has not called out the dealer we bought from.  For all you know, i bought my boat in canada....

Edited June 29, 2018 by M235Ozark

[Weaklink]

On 6/27/2018 at 3:13 PM, TallRedRider said:

For anyone who has not done the math, Ozark got 26% off of MSRP (226 X .74 = 168). 

But I think it has recently been revealed that MSRP numbers can be made up on the spot from the dealer, so may not be the same nationwide, which is really important on a national board like this.  

Thanks Ozark!  It is good to see real numbers out there.  The Nautique now has a thruster, which is a 9K option, which has not been available for Malibu, yet. 

I can vouch for that. Even though Malibu advertises the 21vlx as $79,995 “well equipped” my dealer showed me a “build sheet” that showed $116,xxx. Some of the “options” that were on this build sheet looked to be standard on the website. I argued this point which really seemed to piss off the sales guy-“You have the build sheet from Malibu in your hand!” The thing is, if he was screwing me, I don’t think he was aware of it. He didn’t seem very knowledgeable about Malibu’s in general. In the end I was ok with the deal we made mostly because they gave me retail for my trade, 

 

[teamerickson]

We’re all entitled to 36% off! Everybody gets a trophy! My kids shouldn’t have to pay for college!

[TallRedRider]

44 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

That would be the case if we all called out the dealer we bought from, but myself or anyone else has not called out the dealer we bought from.  For all you know, i bought my boat in canada....

Excellent point.  If you are not developing a long term relationship, it doesn't matter.   And I am still glad to see the numbers.  

On another point...I get grumpy when I see someone who got a better deal than me.  Although I am doing better than most of what I see on the forum dedicated to the boat I own (Nautique), it irritates me when I see someone who got better.   So I sort of have a love/hate relationship with these threads.  Mostly, once I have bought the boat, I don't look back because it just makes me less happy instead of more.  I bought the boat to make me and my family happy, and when it stops doing that, I am out.  

[Monkeybutt]

3 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

That proves my point though. Every dealer is different. I was just using a “large” and a “small” dealer as an example. 

here's some food for thought … yes I compare with the automotive industry because there are more similarities here than maybe some people are willing to acknowledge … First - Malibu as a manufacturer makes money when the boat is sold - doesn't matter if it goes to a customer or a dealer - for them it's $$$.  Of course there's financing for floor/showroom models etc. but once that runs out - the dealer still has to pay (this is the same in the car industry - just done via their financing division).  Now each dealer also has a quota to reach - this is essentially 'guaranteeing' Malibu that they can sell their production capacity.  Now comes the whole incentive stuff.  Once you reach your quota you may (and likely will) get better pricing or kickbacks.  Or if their production for a particular period/model isn't sold out … well call dealer and ask them if they don't want a 24MXZ or whatever with special pricing … Malibu will not let their molds sit around with nothing in it …

That being said - here's the small dealer maybe getting his quota filled (and remember - different quotas for Malibu and Axis and no crossover - gotta reach both or maybe even for certain categories like LSV vs. MXZ/M) - so if a guy shows up and wants a Bu … well that may just be the one the dealer needs to fulfill it while the large dealer is months away from reaching but isn't desperate because his planning seems to work out too while the small dealer wants to reach his quota asap because his sales may fluctuate more etc.

All this plays into a dealers decision.  I have been there and know that car dealers sell cars for less than they actually pay for.  However they make even by reaching incentive goals, get lower finance charges for inventory for reaching goals etc. so all this plays into what you as an individual customer will pay and may be different if you show up early in the season or late - not to forget that Malibu is having incentives every November/December to fill their January thru March build slots …

All that said - my previous 23LSV was a quota boat for the dealer but then he got mad when I wanted to sell it … and the local dealer went bonkers about it too …

And to add to this - here's another small detail from my last purchase:  I talked before about floor model/show room financing.  Well the dealer did provide me with the actual order they put into the system.  Well there was a line which showed that dealer is forfeiting show room financing but will get a cash discount instead … well - for a 100K boat getting 1% or even 2% off … not bad … I may use that next year when negotiating again …

On the other hand - I had a price in mind (and the percentage) I wanted to be happy with the deal.  We were over 7K off initially and I told him that nope - this is where I'm at - he should call me back.  Didn't take 24 hours and we had a deal and I got 2K more off from Supra buying at the boat show (that was some arm twisting there because the Skiers Choice rep has only so many vouchers to give out - they're not for a particular market but for any show he goes to … so I got 2 of those )

and last - never compare pricing between you and others - remorse buyers are the worst … they either don't buy or regret buying it the minute they get it … as others said - enjoy what you got … it's frigging sweet if you can spend time on the water …

[oldjeep]

3 hours ago, TenTwentyOne said:

And then there is the other side of that coin....... Periodically price gouging the consumer, that has no option to shop around.....

both sides of the argument have merit IMO. Maybe I only posted actual data because of the confusion on margin differences between competing brands. Not so much to reinforce the negotiation ability on a specific brand.

One thing that I have learned lately, is that those brand research documents that @IXFE has seen in the past actually do exist. Competing dealers get sales data, margin data, model volume data, and even a list of people that a competing dealer has sold a boat to recently, and what they paid.......... I’ll be honest, I thought he was exaggerating data sometimes 

those reports do exist. Now, who has more info than who?? Dealer or consumer?

This kind of stuff is why I like one price vehicle dealers.  Best price is published with all the discounts line itemed and anyone can walk in off the street and get it.  Sure you still have to negotiate a trade if you have one, but for a straight sale it is an honest transaction.

[Nitrousbird]

6 hours ago, 05hammerhead said:

I laugh every time the HR lady at work mentions the "you cant talk about your salary"

I assume you work in the private sector.  Instead of laughing, you can let her know she is violating the law by telling you that, in accordance to the National Labor Relations Act.  Let her know you would be happy to report her illegal actions to the NRLB and you'll never hear that BS from her again.

It is fully in your legal right to discuss your wages.  

[Rednucleus]

5 hours ago, teamerickson said:

We’re all entitled to 36% off! Everybody gets a trophy! My kids shouldn’t have to pay for college!

AND all the homeless people need a nice apartment or tiny house to live in rent free till they  get their act together - it is after all, government responsibility to care for these folks. Oops, sorry, getting a little off topic I think.

[Chappy]

1 hour ago, Rednucleus said:

AND all the homeless people need a nice apartment or tiny house to live in rent free till they  get their act together - it is after all, government responsibility to care for these folks. Oops, sorry, getting a little off topic I think.

Smh, at this comment and the other one quoted being an informed consumer is far cry either of these comments!

[IXFE]

On 6/29/2018 at 10:15 AM, TallRedRider said:

On another point...I get grumpy when I see someone who got a better deal than me.  Although I am doing better than most of what I see on the forum dedicated to the boat I own (Nautique), it irritates me when I see someone who got better.   So I sort of have a love/hate relationship with these threads.  Mostly, once I have bought the boat, I don't look back because it just makes me less happy instead of more.  I bought the boat to make me and my family happy, and when it stops doing that, I am out.  

I had a roommate in college who had the same major as me so we were in a lot of the same classes. We were (and still are) friends since grade school. He’s super competitive so after every exam he would come back to the apartment and ask me “what did you get?”  Even at 21 years old I recognized this was a lose / lose situation.  If I beat him, there’s a long pause and now he feels bad/pissed and I feel awkward. If he beat me the opposite happens. 

This is why I don’t like boat pricing threads. I’m one of those people who don’t like when other people feel bad (I know that probably shocks y’all).

Just get the best deal you can on the boat you LOVE, then forget about what you paid forever.

[IXFE]

On 6/29/2018 at 7:22 AM, TenTwentyOne said:

One thing that I have learned lately, is that those brand research documents that @IXFE has seen in the past actually do exist. Competing dealers get sales data, margin data, model volume data, and even a list of people that a competing dealer has sold a boat to recently, and what they paid.......... I’ll be honest, I thought he was exaggerating data sometimes 

 

[UWSkier]

I have an idea for a parallel thread.  Let's all post what sort of financing arrangements we have. 

I tend to fall into the camp that there's a bit of a gentleman's agreement between you and your dealer if you get a screaming good price.

Edited June 30, 2018 by UWSkier

[BadgerBoater55]

For those of you who have that "sour taste" in your mouth after understanding you didn't get the best price, feel free to PM me.  I will happily take your boat off of your hands and thoroughly enjoy it regardless of how much you paid for it!

All joking aside, just enjoy your damn boat... consider yourself lucky to have a fun toy that costs big $$$.  And remember, those guys selling you the boats have to make a living too... nobody complains to you about making money at your job.

Edited June 30, 2018 by BadgerBoater55

[Nitrousbird]

5 hours ago, UWSkier said:

I have an idea for a parallel thread.  Let's all post what sort of financing arrangements we have. 

Those always turn out really well!

[05hammerhead]

Id be curious to know how many people pay full retail for the gear they buy.  Id never pay $1200 for a surfboard, but I know plenty of guys that do. 

[isellacuras]

15 hours ago, 05hammerhead said:

Id be curious to know how many people pay full retail for the gear they buy.  Id never pay $1200 for a surfboard, but I know plenty of guys that do. 

I paid the $825 retail price for my soulcraft. It's the only board i have paid MSRP for and it is the one i am most happy with. I really like my Victoria, slingshot nomad and a coupe other boards that i bought new on "sale" and the dozens of other boards i have bought and sold on Craigslist have treated me well but i LOVE my soulcraft. I think it has to do with my size and it being made just for me. 

[M235Ozark]

On 6/30/2018 at 1:04 PM, IXFE said:

I had a roommate in college who had the same major as me so we were in a lot of the same classes. We were (and still are) friends since grade school. He’s super competitive so after every exam he would come back to the apartment and ask me “what did you get?”  Even at 21 years old I recognized this was a lose / lose situation.  If I beat him, there’s a long pause and now he feels bad/pissed and I feel awkward. If he beat me the opposite happens. 

This is why I don’t like boat pricing threads. I’m one of those people who don’t like when other people feel bad (I know that probably shocks y’all).

Just get the best deal you can on the boat you LOVE, then forget about what you paid forever.

The whole point of this thread was not to be a place for people to go to brag about their deal or to make anyone feel bad about the deal they got.  The point was to provide information to those who might have before ruled out the M because of the perceived notion that it is a $230,000 boat...which its not.  I want to see more of these bad boys out of the water!

 

I personally could care less what someone else paid....until i am ready to buy a new one. Then i want to know whats reasonable when negotiating.  Ive said before, never regret the deal you got...just come to the negotiation with a knowledge about what is possible to get.  

I also want my dealership to make money, which I am sure they do just about every time.  The better my dealership does, the more locations and services they can provide to me the consumer.  

[Fffrank]

I don't know anything about what new boats go for but I support this thread.  It's 2018 and if your business model relies on you limiting what kind of data or information your customer base has access to then you are going to go out of business.  Informed consumers are not something to be feared -- these are the people that are most passionate about your brand and if they are willing to take the time to learn everything they can about your product/features/solutions (and yes... pricing!) then you should be bending over backwards to keep them this excited.

Also, I saw my first M235 in the wild this weekend and it was stunning.  Made the 2018 23LSV and even the G23 it was parked next to look like a toy.  I had some serious boat envy.  

[NWBU]

What I've seen confirmed on this thread is 1) that M235 pricing is no different than the rest of the Malibu line, despite a lot of comments over the past couple of years about the unique M pricing strategy, and 2) all pricing is local and driven by supply/demand.

The relative discount percentages are about the same as what people are seeing across the rest of Malbu's boats, the only real difference being the higher base price pushes the MSRP into the >$200K range. The bigger base gives dealers more potential margin to play with and still get to whatever their target for profit per boat sold may be but it doesn't seem to be impacting the overall M235 discount %s as much as I would've thought, which means most dealers aren't really trying to push this boat. 

[spikew919]

I still can’t believe there are not more of the M’s on the lakes than there is. Last year our trip to smith lake we had dozens of people wanting to look at ours. Saying they had never seen one before in person. So this year I didn’t expect those encounters but had them again. And I know @wbama387 is always at smith all the time. 

The other families that were with us who have no clue about the difference between a moomba, a malibu, or tige, axis, or anything could figure out why random strangers were stopping us just to look at our boat. Even had one beautiful yellow and black metal flake moomba follow us and were taking pics while we surfed followed us 2 miles to our dock as we dropped off the wives to cook and picked up other kids to teach to surf, they stopped us to get a closer look. And closer pics. 

[DallasBoater]

On 6/29/2018 at 7:22 AM, TenTwentyOne said:

And then there is the other side of that coin....... Periodically price gouging the consumer, that has no option to shop around.....

both sides of the argument have merit IMO. Maybe I only posted actual data because of the confusion on margin differences between competing brands. Not so much to reinforce the negotiation ability on a specific brand.

One thing that I have learned lately, is that those brand research documents that @IXFE has seen in the past actually do exist. Competing dealers get sales data, margin data, model volume data, and even a list of people that a competing dealer has sold a boat to recently, and what they paid.......... I’ll be honest, I thought he was exaggerating data sometimes 

those reports do exist. Now, who has more info than who?? Dealer or consumer?

I would love to see these documents.  I've been trying to decide if the boating market is something I really should invest in... would you be able to PM this to me?

 

Thanks!

[TallRedRider]

21 hours ago, DallasBoater said:

I would love to see these documents.  I've been trying to decide if the boating market is something I really should invest in... would you be able to PM this to me?

 

Thanks!

I am going to guess that it is like any other industry tied to the market in general, except with wider swings.  When it is good, it goes up fast, when the market plummets, it plummets fast.  If you have a crystal ball, invest in the boating industry, and get out just before it sinks.