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Jvan

Throttle by wire

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Jvan

I have to wiggle the shift lever to start the boat and it seems to be getting worse. 2008 VLX

do I need a new shift lever or throttle assembly?

any help would be appreciated thanks 

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Ryan1776

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing neither one of those things. 

Most likely a neutral safety switch. I know they have these on cars, but unsure about boats. But I'm sure they have something that completes that same task. 
Just as the name implies it won't allow the engine to start while in gear. 
Might be able to verify this by pulling out the button on the throttle housing like you'd be putting it in Neutral to rev it up. 

Just a thought. 

Edited by Ryan1776

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Kirk Rieber

I've got the same issue, same boat.  Most of the time, i turn the key and the fuel pump runs and the instrument cluster comes to life, but nothing from the engine.    I just keep messing with the throttle and eventually it will fire.

 

I had the boat at the dealer for an unrelated issue.  They didn't mention the no start, but they did say that there is a "dead" spot in the throttle and I'll need a new one, which they will be happy to provide for $900.  I'm not sure if a new throttle would solve the issue or not.   Also, I looked into the neutral safety switch last summer and I cannot find that switch that's shown in the link above on the transmission on my boat.  I think this is due the system being drive by wire in the 08's.

 

If you find a solution, I'd love to know what you did.

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boardjnky4

As previously stated, the neutral safety switch is on the trans, it's not in the throttle assembly.

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Kirk Rieber
1 hour ago, boardjnky4 said:

As previously stated, the neutral safety switch is on the trans, it's not in the throttle assembly.

 

1 hour ago, Kirk Rieber said:

 

I had the boat at the dealer for an unrelated issue.  They didn't mention the no start, but they did say that there is a "dead" spot in the throttle and I'll need a new one, which they will be happy to provide for $900.  I'm not sure if a new throttle would solve the issue or not.   Also, I looked into the neutral safety switch last summer and I cannot find that switch that's shown in the link above on the transmission on my boat.  I think this is due the system being drive by wire in the 08's.

 

 

Yup. that's where I looked.  even had a diagram and everything that shows where the sensor is supposed to be.  My transmission didn't look the same.

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Woodski

It can also be a transmission cable (if mechanical) out of adjustment.  Check to determine if one direction or other on throttle wiggle cures the no start.

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Kirk Rieber
2 hours ago, Woodski said:

It can also be a transmission cable (if mechanical) out of adjustment.  Check to determine if one direction or other on throttle wiggle cures the no start.

The 08's are throttle by wire.  All electronic signals, no mechanical cable.

 

On 6/14/2018 at 8:30 AM, Ryan1776 said:


Might be able to verify this by pulling out the button on the throttle housing like you'd be putting it in Neutral to rev it up. 

There is no such button on the throttle housing on the 08's.  There is a procedure in the manual to put the transmission in neutral, but its done at the transmission.

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boardjnky4

Oops didn't see that Kirk. Do you know which Trans you have? I believe that 08 is the first year of the ZF Ski-Vee.

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Kirk Rieber

I do not know the transmission type.  I do know that there is a red thing (cap/dial/something) on the top of it that has to do with placing it in Neutral.  I read the procedure when I got the boat and have never done it or looked at it again.

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Kirk Rieber

I took a much better look tonight and I did find the neutral safety switch, it was hidden up behind the plate that the relays are mounted to.  I didn't have time to play with it tonight, but I plan on shorting out the switch to see if my issue goes away.  If it does, I'll get a new switch.

 

I did notice that the switch on my boat has a pigtail coming out, not the screw terminals that are shown on the switch from Bakes.

 

 

The black wire to the right goes to the neutral safety switch:

28020915777_3ffca2bedd_c.jpgVLX Neutral switch by kdrieber, on Flickr

 

The switch

28020915887_81d39c9dcd_c.jpgVLX Neutral switch by kdrieber, on Flickr

Edited by Kirk Rieber

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Kirk Rieber

A dealer tech came to the house last night to address some issues I had after my last service, and we discussed this issue.  He said that is it definitely the throttle.  There is a potentiometer inside that has developed a dead spot.  Apparently they noticed this when at the shop and hooked up to a computer and they had no throttle reading from about 75-80% of throttle position.  

 

A new throttle is $800 + tax (~960 installed by the dealer).  I had plans to get a new cover this year, it looks like that will be on hold for another year.

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boardjnky4
21 minutes ago, Kirk Rieber said:

A dealer tech came to the house last night to address some issues I had after my last service, and we discussed this issue.  He said that is it definitely the throttle.  There is a potentiometer inside that has developed a dead spot.  Apparently they noticed this when at the shop and hooked up to a computer and they had no throttle reading from about 75-80% of throttle position.  

 

A new throttle is $800 + tax (~960 installed by the dealer).  I had plans to get a new cover this year, it looks like that will be on hold for another year.

Good Info Kirk

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Woodski

@Kirk Rieber:  Any way to disassemble the throttle asm and replace the potentiometer?  The dealer will not have an interest in doing that due to their labor structure, but a willing DIY person should be able to do it, with the caveat that the unit is not simply sealed up.  You might try some alternate forums to find people that have done just that.  That potentiometer is probably sourceable from a good electronics outlet for a fraction of the $800.

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Kirk Rieber

I'm going to pull the throttle this evening to get an idea if a rebuild is something I want to attempt or not. I had to replace the engine and fuel pump this year.  I've spent way more than my yearly allotment for maintenance already and I've only put 8 hours on the boat so far.  I'd really like to save $$ wherever possible.  I also don't want to screw up the existing throttle and be out of commission totally while waiting on a new one to come in.  My wife might kill me if the boat isn't available, she loves being out just as much as I do.

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boardjnky4

https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-tps-sesnor-for-malibu-fly-by-wire-morse-control.html

I think this is what you need to replace. Really depends on the year/model though. This particular part is for Morse controls. It states on that site that if it's the ZF unit, it's not serviceable. 

Edited by boardjnky4

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Kirk Rieber

It the Livorsi throttle assembly that I need.  They make them specific to the OEM and are only available via the dealer.   There are many things in this world that are "Not Serviceable"; doesn't mean you can't try.

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Kirk Rieber

I went ahead and got a new throttle and installed it last night.  It seems to have fixed the problem.  The new throttle is the new style with the pull up style neutral lock and a neutral capability.  I didn't have the time to take it for a spin so I didn't get to test out the neutral function, but the boat started every time, no issues.   

 

Installation is straight forward.  four screws and two electrical plugs.  The only issue was that the old throttle used pan head screws for mounting and they interfere with the trim plate that is on the new throttle.  You need to replace the pan heads with flat heads so they with flush with the mounting plate and allow the trim plate to mount properly.

 

 

I'g going to open up the old throttle this weekend to see what makes it tick and to see if its fixable.

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