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Ryan1776

2010 LSV MLS...Plus 550's?

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Ryan1776

Hope everyone had a fantastic Memorial Day. Thank you to all the veterans and the families of them as well. 

Had a great time on the new-to-me lsv this weekend. Had 10 people on the boat without issue and plenty of room. My 3 month old baby girl LOVES being in the boat and had her floating in her Ronix vest on the sandbar happy as a clam! :yahoo:

Anyway. Got a chance to ride Monday as the lake was calmer than the actual weekend. Keep in mind I came from an 86 Supra Comp. 
Full MLS, wedge at max (according to the little scale) 21mph. 65' rope. HOLY HELL. That'll boot you up. (I know all the experienced riders are laughing at me but damn was that fun, and scary!)

Surf wave. Weak. We could surf the Supra, with some scary amount of weight, but it could be done.
Now I knew in the back of my head that stock weight wouldn't surf. But was kinda hoping with the Mission Delta I would be OK. I have it facing forward, but someone on here flipped it around with good results. So I'll try that too. 
All ballast full. Both rears, Wedge again at max. I see that two clicks from full deploy is ideal. Didn't see that till yesterday. So I'll try that.
Played around with speed, 10.8-11.4. No real gain. Above 11.2 was worse. 
Good size wave, no push. If I remember correctly push can be added by increasing bow weight and then some speed. I added 400lbs to the bow (plus the MLS 350) without much success. 
The dealer is still waiting for my "free" ballast bag upgrades. They were only willing to get me 550lb bags a side. 
So my question is this, is 1100lbs total worth it? I want(ed) the 910lb bags from wakemakers, but see a lot of guys have great success with 750s.
I don't want to install these and have them be "meh" when I could sell them as "NIB" as soon as I receive them and buy the 910's

So that's the gist of the question. 
Are the 550s going to be good. Not good enough... but good. 400lbs between the 550-750 is fairly significant when I only have 2-3 people on the boat typically. And with my plan on going to 910's, 720lbs is A LOT! 
Thoughts, comments?
Thank you! 

Ryan 

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minnmarker

Which LSV?  I've got 900s in mine.  Plus 500 in the ski locker and 400 water and lead in the bow.  You're going to want more weight than the 550s so might as well get it now instead of stepping up to it.  You don't have to fill them all the way anyway.  Glad you like the boarding wake.  Wish I was still able to extreme play without worrying about breaking myself!

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Brodie

"I really wish I had smaller ballast bags"...said no one ever!! 

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wdr

Full MLS, 1100 surfside locker (900ish realistically) and a 750 full on the bow seat, wedge 0-1 clicks up for skim, 3-5 clicks for surf style boards and homemade suck gate (more or less evenly listed even with the 1100 surf side) = the boat everyone wants to surf behind for me. Plenty of push and really good length that is easily recoverable on. YRMV. I would say the 900s will be fine for you. I do think you will have a problem getting to speed with both 900s in the rear lockers. I tried it w/ my 1100  and 750 back there filled to @ 750lbs and it struggled to get to speed even with my Acme 1235 prop, bow weight might have helped this set up a bit. The only reason I have an 1100 instead of a 900 surf side is that I was running it on top of the surf side seats full at one time.

Edited by wdr

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Ryan1776
58 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Which LSV?  I've got 900s in mine.

23LSV.
 

 

58 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

You're going to want more weight than the 550s so might as well get it now instead of stepping up to it.

That was kinda my thought. 

 

58 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Glad you like the boarding wake.  Wish I was still able to extreme play without worrying about breaking myself!

Tore my ACL on a tantrum 7-8 years ago. Riding with my DonJoy brace certainly helps. 

47 minutes ago, Brodie said:

"I really wish I had smaller ballast bags"...said no one ever!! 

:rofl: Can't argue there. 

39 minutes ago, wdr said:

Full MLS, 1100 surfside locker (900ish realistically) and a 750 full on the bow seat, wedge 0-1 clicks up for skim, 3-5 clicks for surf style boards and homemade suck gate (more or less evenly listed even with the 1100 surf side) = the boat everyone wants to surf behind for me. Plenty of push and really good length that is easily recoverable on. YRMV. I would say the 900s will be fine for you. I do think you will have a problem getting to speed with both 900s in the rear lockers. I tried it w/ my 1100  and 750 back there filled to @ 750lbs and it struggled to get to speed even with my Acme 1235 prop, bow weight might have helped this set up a bit. The only reason I have an 1100 instead of a 900 surf side is that I was running it on top of the surf side seats full at one time.

Good info here, I have the 1235 as well. I'm not looking for a competition surf wave here. Just something that's fun and where you don't need the rope. 
If I can achieve that with the 910's and swap out the bow tank for the 750 bag I'd be ecstatic. 

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wdr

I didn't swap out the bow tank, I just put the 750 bag on top of it for @ 1000lbs up there. I plumbed in reversible pumps for both of the bow and locker bags. I put a quick connect on the locker fill line (I only run a surf side bag not both sides) and extra hose sections for both port and starboard so I can surf either side if we want to. All I have to do is move the bag to one side or the other and swap the fill lines at the quick release and fill it. It may not be a comp wave, but everyone likes it.

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minnmarker
1 hour ago, Ryan1776 said:

23LSV.

If I can achieve that with the 910's and swap out the bow tank for the 750 bag I'd be ecstatic. 

If you want an even better wave, contact @martinarcher  about putting surf gates on it.

BTW, I'm of the opinion that you don't have to completely loose your bow seating if you have a center ski locker and under seat spaces in the bow to fill with 800+ lbs. of water.

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wdr
4 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

If you want an even better wave, contact @martinarcher  about putting surf gates on it.

BTW, I'm of the opinion that you don't have to completely loose your bow seating if you have a center ski locker and under seat spaces in the bow to fill with 800+ lbs. of water.

You can keep your bow seating if you want. You can run the bag in the walk through with the same results. I just choose to put mine up front as we very seldom get and bow participants unless it is our Schnauzers.

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Ryan1776

@wdr @minnmarker

Thank you both! To be honest, I have zero desire to have any of the bags showing whatsoever. I filled bags all over the boat for too many years in the Surpa. I don't want to have to deal with it again. 
Hoping with the 910's in the rear, the Mission Delta, and maybe the 750 bow bag (by removing hard tank) I'll be able to have a good time. 

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wdr

You can pull the tank, but you won't have anything for the bow cushions to sit on when empty, unless you fabricate something for the carpeted HDPE panel to rest on and it will require as cross bar(s) of some sort to support the panel and the cushions and be able to hide the bag under it. When the bag is filled the plate will rise. My 750 would be kind of an awkward fit as it is basically 24x24x48 inch bag when full. I just installed a triangle bag in my friends Enzo and it would be an ideal fit under there and you might be able to keep it under cover as it were at 750lbs full but probably not 1000.  

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Ryan1776
1 hour ago, wdr said:

You can pull the tank, but you won't have anything for the bow cushions to sit on when empty, unless you fabricate something for the carpeted HDPE panel to rest on and it will require as cross bar(s) of some sort to support the panel and the cushions and be able to hide the bag under it. When the bag is filled the plate will rise. My 750 would be kind of an awkward fit as it is basically 24x24x48 inch bag when full. I just installed a triangle bag in my friends Enzo and it would be an ideal fit under there and you might be able to keep it under cover as it were at 750lbs full but probably not 1000.  

OH yeah, for sure. kerpluxal actually sent me his bow upgrade to hide his 1100lb bag. Pretty slick setup. I have no issues building something. 
What bag did you install on the Enzo? 

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kerpluxal
2 hours ago, wdr said:

You can pull the tank, but you won't have anything for the bow cushions to sit on when empty, unless you fabricate something for the carpeted HDPE panel to rest on and it will require as cross bar(s) of some sort to support the panel and the cushions and be able to hide the bag under it. When the bag is filled the plate will rise. My 750 would be kind of an awkward fit as it is basically 24x24x48 inch bag when full. I just installed a triangle bag in my friends Enzo and it would be an ideal fit under there and you might be able to keep it under cover as it were at 750lbs full but probably not 1000.  

I already did this... but I did not have the bow tank... removed the horseshoe from bow, dropped the flyhigh 1100 up there, built the panel to cover the area with a 3 inch spacer  under it (did not need cross bracing or anything else, there is shelf for it to rest on) cut access holes, and slots for the seats to lock into... voila ... now my ballast is hidden and front area still usable... but when I fill to max.... the seats are are about 8 inches from top of bow... but the wave is amazing!!!

Ok @Ryan1776... I sent you the pics correct? anyways...

I have GSA (go surf assist) still the best 5000 that I have spent,,,

1100 in rear lockers PNP to the 250s

currently the 400 bags are under my coffin seats and thinking of replacing with 560s and seeing if I can change rears to 750s

500 center

1100 up front...

I know the bags don't fill to their max weight,,,

Wedge all the way down and 12.2 -12.8 for speed... long firm wave

Slow the boat down and/or click wedge up ... for steeper wave....

BTW I am goofy so it is the good side of the boat ;)

 

Edited by kerpluxal

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kerpluxal
12 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

OH yeah, for sure. kerpluxal actually sent me his bow upgrade to hide his 1100lb bag. Pretty slick setup. I have no issues building something. 
What bag did you install on the Enzo? 

Little late on my click lol ;)

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Ryan1776
2 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

Little late on my click lol ;)

lol. Your setup is mint man! 

The dealer ordered the wrong bags. 400lb. wtf.  So I kindly made them realize how long I've waited for my stuff along with all the other mishaps in the process and they expedited me Fat Sac 1100lbs. :rockon:

So I got that going for me. 
I'm assuming Fat Sac uses the standard 1" threaded bag fittings as WakeMakers stuff so I can order all the stuff I need? Going to do the 1 1/8" line upgrade and I stumbled upon their old "Ultimate piggy back" diagram. I'm going to do that for the drain, running two drain pumps sure seems like a great idea. Especially since I'll be removing my perfectly good working fill pumps. 

 

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kerpluxal
4 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

lol. Your setup is mint man! 

The dealer ordered the wrong bags. 400lb. wtf.  So I kindly made them realize how long I've waited for my stuff along with all the other mishaps in the process and they expedited me Fat Sac 1100lbs. :rockon:

So I got that going for me. 
I'm assuming Fat Sac uses the standard 1" threaded bag fittings as WakeMakers stuff so I can order all the stuff I need? Going to do the 1 1/8" line upgrade and I stumbled upon their old "Ultimate piggy back" diagram. I'm going to do that for the drain, running two drain pumps sure seems like a great idea. Especially since I'll be removing my perfectly good working fill pumps. 

 

With the 1100s, the rear divider panels need additional support or you will push them out.... Wakemakers has a kit or you can make your own.. I also removed the plastic c-channel on floor and replaced with aluminum and bought thumb screws to mount the panel to the crossbar... 

For drain that diagram is fine but not for fill... I would still fill as I said before to prevent air locking... that was my experience when filling the top bag before the bottom tank was full..

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Ryan1776
2 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

With the 1100s, the rear divider panels need additional support or you will push them out.... Wakemakers has a kit or you can make your own.. I also removed the plastic c-channel on floor and replaced with aluminum and bought thumb screws to mount the panel to the crossbar... 

For drain that diagram is fine but not for fill... I would still fill as I said before to prevent air locking... that was my experience when filling the top bag before the bottom tank was full..

I had no intention on filling the rears....will that even fit in the locker full???
Definitely on the reinforcements, I was going to anyway. 
What C channel do you mean? I'm not totally familiar with it I guess. 

I thought that the drain was a good idea. And I planned on running the Y the other way or the fill like we talked. 
The fatsac bags use the standard 1" fittings that Wakemakers makes, correct? 

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wdr

I put the 1000 in the Enzo. An 1100 won’t fill completely in the lockers in our boats. More likely 900 ish at best. The “C” channel is screwed to the plastic floor facing up and the dividers sit in them. The plastic “C”s won’t last one trip with a bag back there. +1 for the aluminum and through bolting in my case as the screws will pull right out the plastic floor. The Fat Sacs will accept 3/4” and 1” ID fittings and or hoses.

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Ryan1776
58 minutes ago, wdr said:

The “C” channel is screwed to the plastic floor facing up and the dividers sit in them.

OH got it. Thank you!  900 is really what I wanted, (obviously) but apparently wasn't on the list of available bags. Do they not fit height wise? 

https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-open-bow-sac.html

This guy? 

I'll take apart the side panels tomorrow or Friday and fab up the bracing. No way I'm spending 80$ for wakemakers piece. Too pricey. Do you guys put the brace on the engine side or sac side?

 

Thanks again guys! 

 

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kerpluxal
13 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

OH got it. Thank you!  900 is really what I wanted, (obviously) but apparently wasn't on the list of available bags. Do they not fit height wise? 

https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-open-bow-sac.html

This guy? 

I'll take apart the side panels tomorrow or Friday and fab up the bracing. No way I'm spending 80$ for wakemakers piece. Too pricey. Do you guys put the brace on the engine side or sac side?

 

Thanks again guys! 

 

That is what I have in the bow... Sumo also makes one in the smaller size, but after measuring the bow out.. this was best fit...

Sumo and Ronix have different size bags for the rear lockers as well with different weights... Best to just measure the locker out see what is best fit... I got my 1100s for free... and I had to modify them by adding an additional port... so free was better than fitment ;)  (I had 750s as well but wanted more at the time)

The 1100 won't fill all the way... but will fill to more than 750... They are too long and wide to fill completely (hence bracing the dividers)

 

 

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wdr
47 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

OH got it. Thank you!  900 is really what I wanted, (obviously) but apparently wasn't on the list of available bags. Do they not fit height wise? 

https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-open-bow-sac.html

This guy? 

I'll take apart the side panels tomorrow or Friday and fab up the bracing. No way I'm spending 80$ for wakemakers piece. Too pricey. Do you guys put the brace on the engine side or sac side?

 

Thanks again guys! 

 

I put them on the engine side. I also made vertical supports that are screwed to the top of the vertical face of the sun deck support frame with 1/4” x20 hex button head screws and lower “L” brackets screwed through the vertical supports and to the deck w SS screws.  Even though I added the engine side supports they still failed so I more or less had to add the vertical supports.

Edited by wdr

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Ryan1776
On 5/30/2018 at 7:39 PM, kerpluxal said:

Best to just measure the locker out see what is best fit... I got my 1100s for free... and I had to modify them by adding an additional port... so free was better than fitment ;)  (I had 750s as well but wanted more at the time)

I got mine for "free" now too. And they have the 4th port. 
Looking at the listing for the bags, they are actually 3/4" ports. Any benefit running dual inlets to the bag? Use two Y connectors. 

Bag     (______)>---|                       
Tank   [______]-----<________O-pump
This will offer a couple of benefits I can see. 
1-Fill hard tank first and give structure. 
2-Will allow two inlets into bag with only 3/4" ports as I was anticipating 1" with the wakemakers bags. Especially since I'm using 1 1/8" line. Giving faster fill times.
3-Will allow the bag to drain into the hard tank upon draining the system there by keeping some water in the hard tank as the pumps drain out. 

This brings me to my 2nd revelation/question from last night. By using the dual drain pump method, I have to believe that the hard tank will most assuredly drain first/faster than the bag leaving a ton of weight on top with an empty tank. If we are concerned with filling the tank before bag than we should be concerned with draining the bag before tank.  
Adding this automatic delay relay to the tank pump I can then allow the bag pump to run 5min or so before the tank pump kicks on. I've used these before with GREAT success. 
http://timers.shop/

On 5/30/2018 at 7:39 PM, kerpluxal said:

That is what I have in the bow... Sumo also makes one in the smaller size, but after measuring the bow out.. this was best fit...

Awesome. So that bag is in my sights at some point. 
 

On 5/30/2018 at 8:05 PM, wdr said:

I put them on the engine side. I also made vertical supports that are screwed to the top of the vertical face of the sun deck support frame with 1/4” x20 hex button head screws and lower “L” brackets screwed through the vertical supports and to the deck w SS screws.  Even though I added the engine side supports they still failed so I more or less had to add the vertical supports.

Oh nice! Ok. 
 

Edited by Ryan1776

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kerpluxal
7 hours ago, Ryan1776 said:

I got mine for "free" now too. And they have the 4th port. 
Looking at the listing for the bags, they are actually 3/4" ports. Any benefit running dual inlets to the bag? Use two Y connectors. 

Bag     (______)>---|                       
Tank   [______]-----<________O-pump
This will offer a couple of benefits I can see. 
1-Fill hard tank first and give structure. 
2-Will allow two inlets into bag with only 3/4" ports as I was anticipating 1" with the wakemakers bags. Especially since I'm using 1 1/8" line. Giving faster fill times.
3-Will allow the bag to drain into the hard tank upon draining the system there by keeping some water in the hard tank as the pumps drain out. 

This brings me to my 2nd revelation/question from last night. By using the dual drain pump method, I have to believe that the hard tank will most assuredly drain first/faster than the bag leaving a ton of weight on top with an empty tank. If we are concerned with filling the tank before bag than we should be concerned with draining the bag before tank.  
Adding this automatic delay relay to the tank pump I can then allow the bag pump to run 5min or so before the tank pump kicks on. I've used these before with GREAT success. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PD65UGA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

Awesome. So that bag is in my sights at some point. 
 

Oh nice! Ok. 
 

Don't worry about the port size.. All FlyHigh bags have .75 ports, Just make sure to buy the right connectors 1 1/8.... Your hard tank is also .75 and you will need to get from Ace a .75 threaded to 1" barbed (no 1 1/18 in the plumbing world). 

Like your drain idea with a timer... might be next on my list ;)

 

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Ryan1776
3 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

Don't worry about the port size.. All FlyHigh bags have .75 ports, Just make sure to buy the right connectors 1 1/8.... Your hard tank is also .75 and you will need to get from Ace a .75 threaded to 1" barbed (no 1 1/18 in the plumbing world). 

Like your drain idea with a timer... might be next on my list ;)

 

Love it. Would you double up the input into the bag? I ordered the parts. Too much time spent brain draining about it. So if I don't use it, I'll have extra. 
I got the specific 3/4 to 1 1/8" quick release adapter from wakemakers. Should be good. 

Oh man that timer is kickass. I have one on my Surpa. When I put in the "new" engine I pulled out of an Explorer I had to get the TFI ignition module and lock the timing out. Problem with that is, it was A b**** to start because it would only give the coil 9volts during crank. (New batts, new cables.) So I used that timer. 
To program it you give it 12v. Then however long you want it to wait, you then touch the white wire to 12v source. Now it's programmed. 
So in this case, I had someone crank the engine and at approx 3 "wrrr wrrr wrr" lol I touched the white wire to 12v. Now it will keep that signal on until it looses it's 12 "main power" signal. Which in this case was key to crank. 
So in the real world. I'd be sitting in the chair, key the boat....wrr wrr wrr....(relay closes)....wrrrr wrrr VROOM.... key off. Relay shuts off. 
This really made a difference when it was hot. 
So for this, just turn on the pumps....wait 5min or whatever, touch the white wire to 12v and you're done. When you turn the pump switch off, it'll reset. Waterproof too. 

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kerpluxal
39 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

Love it. Would you double up the input into the bag? I ordered the parts. Too much time spent brain draining about it. So if I don't use it, I'll have extra. 
I got the specific 3/4 to 1 1/8" quick release adapter from wakemakers. Should be good. 

Oh man that timer is kickass. I have one on my Surpa. When I put in the "new" engine I pulled out of an Explorer I had to get the TFI ignition module and lock the timing out. Problem with that is, it was A b**** to start because it would only give the coil 9volts during crank. (New batts, new cables.) So I used that timer. 
To program it you give it 12v. Then however long you want it to wait, you then touch the white wire to 12v source. Now it's programmed. 
So in this case, I had someone crank the engine and at approx 3 "wrrr wrrr wrr" lol I touched the white wire to 12v. Now it will keep that signal on until it looses it's 12 "main power" signal. Which in this case was key to crank. 
So in the real world. I'd be sitting in the chair, key the boat....wrr wrr wrr....(relay closes)....wrrrr wrrr VROOM.... key off. Relay shuts off. 
This really made a difference when it was hot. 
So for this, just turn on the pumps....wait 5min or whatever, touch the white wire to 12v and you're done. When you turn the pump switch off, it'll reset. Waterproof too. 

I currently have the y and the vent from tank going to bag...

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Ryan1776
On 5/30/2018 at 6:01 PM, kerpluxal said:

With the 1100s, the rear divider panels need additional support or you will push them out.... Wakemakers has a kit or you can make your own.. I also removed the plastic c-channel on floor and replaced with aluminum and bought thumb screws to mount the panel to the crossbar... 

On 5/30/2018 at 6:15 PM, wdr said:

The “C” channel is screwed to the plastic floor facing up and the dividers sit in them. The plastic “C”s won’t last one trip with a bag back there. +1 for the aluminum and through bolting in my case as the screws will pull right out the plastic floor.

 

Got it. Pulled both the starboard side panel and C channel out yesterday to do this project. 
@wdr you said you through bolted to the floor, how does the floor come up? Did you just replace the screws with 3 bolts? Or build a backing plate? This is the first I've heard of doing this, but makes sense. 

FINALLY got my 1100bags Friday from the dealer and they "threw in" a Supa Tsunami pump. Which if I can make the adapters work I'll probably use it to replace the stock front tank pump when I upgrade the bow bag. 

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