2019 - M235 or 25LSV

[RyanB]

3 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

If you assume you can get a 30% discount of MSRP you would be at around 97k for an lsv and 185k for a m235 meaning you could buy almost 2 LSVs for the price of a single M.   Say what you will about what you want, style diffences etc, but I still doubt price isn’t a factor.  Your math just doesn’t add up..... good luck 

I think you are WAY off on your pricing.  Used 25LSVs go for more than 97k.  And I am pretty sure a very well optioned M235 at the boat show this year had a price below that $185k you mention.

Either way, I personally am not a fan of the 235.  Too much freeboard, too little space behind the windshield.  On the other hand, I have come close to pulling the trigger and upgrading to a 25LSV.

But apparently there is a market for both.

[MalibuMatty]

Let me know if you need me to find you a deal.  

i got my 2016 23 wity 133 sticker for 30% off. 

Was offered 35% on 2018 order of a M last season. 

Was offered 30% on my 25 order this year. 

Ive had 4 23s in a row but starting to feel like more space could be a good thing. 

I also like that the M has a lot of cool stuff you can’t get on a LSV. 

I also never ever liked pickle fork hence why I never tried a mxz. 

But if the surf was amazing to the point where the 25 would perform less it would make it a no doubter. After listening to people with 25s it seems to be opposite. 

[MalibuMatty]

I can upload purchase order if you like. 

[Fman]

Anyone have data on how many M235s they produced in 2017/18?  My dealer did not even have one at the boat show this year.  They are so expensive, almost has to be a custom order because of the niche market.

And fwiw another 25 LSV win is the cabin rear rounded corner seats.  They still have them, I am not a fan of the squared off corners.   Just not as comfortable.   And hopefully the 25 does not have the plexi glas step down pad and ski locker steps....oh man, toe jammers and loosing that center seat!  Hope they axe that in 2019 for the 23 LSV. 

[Stevo]

2 hours ago, RCorsa said:

More I think about it hard to compare two boats in totally different classes and price points.  Why would anyone be deciding on a 140k boat versus a 250k boat.  Makes no sense.  Would be like someone deciding on a standard three series bmw versus an M5.  I’m doubtful thbut m235 was ever in the running. #truthisonthewater.

Except for the the fact that performance differences are slim and you get more room in the 25. 

Say what you want about the 575 vs the 450 but Unless you are at altitude performance difference would be minimal.

the M235 is for the guy that’s gonna walk in say they want the biggest and baddest boat on the market and write a check,

but for us mortals the best bang for your buck is the 25 all day long (that’s tongue-n-cheek, seeing as I’m comparing $120k boat to a $175k boat . 

[Cole2001]

My dealer sold their first m235 a couple weeks back it’s definitely a beast. Some don’t like the deep sides but I love it, you can let rollers go right by and not have to worry one bit, you sit super deep it’s a love or hate. 

[TenTwentyOne]

10 hours ago, RCorsa said:

More I think about it hard to compare two boats in totally different classes and price points.  Why would anyone be deciding on a 140k boat versus a 250k boat.  Makes no sense.  Would be like someone deciding on a standard three series bmw versus an M5.  I’m doubtful thbut m235 was ever in the running. #truthisonthewater.

I'd say that example is a bit more offset than the comparison between an M and a 25LSV..... it's more like cross shopping an Audi S8+ vs an Audi RS7 Performance. Very similar performance, with a very significant price difference..... and while the RS7 has more aggressive styling, and some fancier AudiSport bits, the S8 offers all of the same performance advantages with more space, comfort, and utility, for substantially less money. 

And im not sure why you'd say it's a 140k vs 250k difference...... if it truly was, that would only make for a better case for the 25LSV being the much better choice. I guess I don't know what you are trying to point out....

Based on what others have stated on M pricing (the few that have purchased them and stated the OTD price), they have been running a 240-265k MSRP range, and OTD prices of 160-185k. An absolutely loaded 25LSV (should have every box checked to compare to an M) with a fancy trailer carries an MSRP of about 190k, and sells in the 130-140k range. Sure, you can option it way down, and have a 25 be much cheaper, but we are comparing loaded boats here......

Its a 20-35k OTD difference between those two examples, and yes, I definitely feel that if you are shopping one, the other is a viable option as well. The 25LSV is not a Moomba, and is not an entirely different class of boat than the M. It's just a little bit short on bling, and a lot longer on utility.

 

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

 I guess I don't know what you are trying to point out....

He’s simply reminding folks that he has an M235 so he’s at the top of the food chain. Pretty obvious...

[IXFE]

Hey @MalibuMatty, I think you should get the M235 and then tow it with your new Raptor. 

Also, post pics!  

[TenTwentyOne]

29 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Hey @MalibuMatty, I think you should get the M235 and then tow it with your new Raptor. 

Also, post pics!  

I definitely like my Raptor, but that is one thing I hate about it..... i can't tow my boat with it (or any other modern 22'+ wakeboat). They are way over the Raptor tow rating.

[JustinHarrelson]

17 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Just reading this thread makes me even more surprised they continue with the m

The M is a beast. I prefer the 25 for myself, but I would love for a neighbor to get an M that I could ride every once in a while. If I owned one I would be 3" shorter by the end of summer. The M235 is for the guy who wants the biggest and baddest--and it is. You could say the same thing for 99% of people who buy a G. That is why G owners get so butt -hurt about the M. They had the biggest and baddest--until the M came out. I think it will always have a place in the line-up.

[The Hulk]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Hey @MalibuMatty, I think you should get the M235 and then tow it with your new Raptor. 

Also, post pics!  

Raptors can't tow crap... About like an M looks cool way over priced but a platinum with Max tow has everything and sometimes more. Tows more with smaller engine!

[spikew919]

I will weigh in since we demoed the M and 25lsv back to back both 2016 models before we ordered. And just to preface it, not Gona say dealer had either boat set up optimally. We were coming from a vlx so both boats and the g23 and x23 we demoed same week all blew us away. 

Yhe 25 had 900lb bags in rear and the wave was long and great but with those bags you couldn’t fit a fart in the locker with them much less a few vests. The M had no bags in rear and that was the ultimate selling point to my wife and I. We can get through surfing or whatever get on platform and put wet vest straight in from platform without opening anything but rear seat. And not drip water all over everyone getting in boat. All wett things go in back there. I have simce put bags back there but even with the 550 bags I still can fit 4 to 5 vests in each side with them full and still have dry storage over them in compartments over bags. And the other plus was never taking water over bow for sure. 

We didn’t buy as status symbol we bought the M due to functionality for us over the 25 and the others. 

[MalibuMatty]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

Hey @MalibuMatty, I think you should get the M235 and then tow it with your new Raptor. 

Also, post pics!  

Yeah that probably wouldn’t work too well. It handled the 23 just fine to the lake and back this weekend which is 75 miles each way. 

New boat next year means new truck too I assume. Being that I drive 22k miles a year it works out that way regardless. 

[TenTwentyOne]

12 minutes ago, MalibuMatty said:

Yeah that probably wouldn’t work too well. It handled the 23 just fine to the lake and back this weekend which is 75 miles each way. 

New boat next year means new truck too I assume. Being that I drive 22k miles a year it works out that way regardless. 

For what it's worth....... even towing a 23LSV is WAY over the tow rating of that truck, unless you have non-swingaway tongue and a weight distributing witch. The Raptor is only rated for 5k for regular towing.

I definitely won't argue that it tows more than that just fine. I have one, and I know they are plenty capable...... HOWEVER, if you ever have any kind of mishap while towing a boat and trailer combo that weighs 7000lbs, on a truck rated for 5k, you will most likely be put at fault regardless if it is really your fault or not. DOT is really cracking down nationwide on pickup tow ratings in the last few years, and handing out hefty fines and penalties for people towing above ratings. They are even doing nationwide training classes for DOT enforcement officers to spot towing violations with little trucks now, rather than only concentrating on big trucks.

sorry for the threadjack. Just trying to save you from a potentially huge headache. I have an employee that is currently being sued for this type of situation. A car passed him and spun out in front of him on wet roads. He was unable to avoid the car, and is being sued for injuries to the driver of the car that spun out because he was towing over the rating of his truck. Not to mention, he was hit with traffic violations and fines of over 5k, because he was towing an almost 10,000lb trailer behind a pickup that was rated for 8k without a WD hitch. If he had a WD hitch, he'd have been fine.

they aren't messing around with that stuff anymore......

[MalibuMatty]

I appreciate it. The gen2 (2018) is actually rated at 8000lbs stock. 

I also have RPG off road frame support, Fox 2.5 air bumps and +3 deavers. 

I weighed my boat full of gear and full tank of gas and was 6611lbs

[TenTwentyOne]

11 minutes ago, MalibuMatty said:

I appreciate it. The gen2 (2018) is actually rated at 8000lbs stock. 

I also have RPG off road frame support, Fox 2.5 air bumps and +3 deavers. 

I weighed my boat full of gear and full tank of gas and was 6611lbs

It's rated for 8k with a WDH........ it's only rated for 5k normal towing.....

[billjames]

17 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

For what it's worth....... even towing a 23LSV is WAY over the tow rating of that truck, unless you have non-swingaway tongue and a weight distributing witch. The Raptor is only rated for 5k for regular towing.

I definitely won't argue that it tows more than that just fine. I have one, and I know they are plenty capable...... HOWEVER, if you ever have any kind of mishap while towing a boat and trailer combo that weighs 7000lbs, on a truck rated for 5k, you will most likely be put at fault regardless if it is really your fault or not. DOT is really cracking down nationwide on pickup tow ratings in the last few years, and handing out hefty fines and penalties for people towing above ratings. They are even doing nationwide training classes for DOT enforcement officers to spot towing violations with little trucks now, rather than only concentrating on big trucks.

sorry for the threadjack. Just trying to save you from a potentially huge headache. I have an employee that is currently being sued for this type of situation. A car passed him and spun out in front of him on wet roads. He was unable to avoid the car, and is being sued for injuries to the driver of the car that spun out because he was towing over the rating of his truck. Not to mention, he was hit with traffic violations and fines of over 5k, because he was towing an almost 10,000lb trailer behind a pickup that was rated for 8k without a WD hitch. If he had a WD hitch, he'd have been fine.

they aren't messing around with that stuff anymore......

All ford 1/2 ton trucks are limited to 5K without weight distribution hitch (page 3 of the following document). https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/17RV&TT_Ford_F150_Sep7.pdf.

My understanding on this limitation is issue with sag. If you add stuff to or change the rear suspension to limit sag, you can go without a weight distribution hitch. On the Raport, that means changing what the Raptor is designed for.

Edited May 30, 2018 by billjames

[spikew919]

And another thread derailed in it’s prime by the WDH 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️😂 lol 

[The Hulk]

Max tow PKG is like 12 k or so I think slightly less w 4*4 whatever it pulls 25 just fine but u feel it there for sure.. triple axil on the 25 would pull a lot smoother with less tounge weight for sure.. harder to turn at ramp though.. so depends what trade-off works for you if you're a lot of miles than triple axle all the way few times a year on tight boat ramps dual axles fine.. I think the 2018 or 2019 F150 has a max to a 13k now with a beefed-up few parts in the rear over the 17s.. 

M walkthrough is nice for sure..

My 25 has room for 4-5 jackets on top and side when bags are full.. still can't get confirmation if I have 750s or 900s.. 

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, spikew919 said:

And another thread derailed in it’s prime by the WDH 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️😂 lol 

My bad. Now back to our regular programming.

[Cole2001]

3 hours ago, JustinHarrelson said:

The M is a beast. I prefer the 25 for myself, but I would love for a neighbor to get an M that I could ride every once in a while. If I owned one I would be 3" shorter by the end of summer. The M235 is for the guy who wants the biggest and baddest--and it is. You could say the same thing for 99% of people who buy a G. That is why G owners get so butt -hurt about the M. They had the biggest and baddest--until the M came out. I think it will always have a place in the line-up.

Yup the biggest and baddest 23ft boat is what it is for the lineup. Everyone has one, g23, ri237, rzx3. Yet properly dialed in the smaller lsv, z3, fi23 all compete wave wise. But that doesn’t stop many people, including myself from having the go big or go home attitude. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Cole2001

[carguy79ta]

More thread jack..just tow with a Ram HD Diesel.  17xxx lbs tow capacity.

[wbama387]

To @spikew919 point we bought the M for the same reason. Storage and free board were a must. I hate having stuff scattered all around the boat, it will drive me nuts. Also, we are in saltwater once a year and when we would take the 23LSV it would beat you up as well as splash water all in the boat. With the M we do not have this issue.

[IXFE]

On 5/30/2018 at 1:01 PM, TenTwentyOne said:

My bad. Now back to our regular programming.

Actually it was my bad... I’m the one who told Matty to buy an M235 and tow it with a new Raptor. I assumed people would get the joke. I was wrong. Sorry. 

I simply found it amusing that the same guy had two active, yet totally contradictory threads... one where he contemples a new Raptor as a tow rig, the other where he contemplates maybe the tallest, heaviest wake boat on the planet. 

Carry on...