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Milky Oil / Water in Oil - 383 Hammerhead


sidekicknicholas

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I just got my boat back for spring and started on an oil change .... the initial 4-6 oz. of liquid that came out of the drain hose was very very close to water / milky oil... after that we went back to completely normal looking used oil.  

Let me know if I'm wrong on my assumptions from here out ....

Causes:

Condensation  /  Head Gasket Blown / Cracked Block

What I know:

Ran perfect at the end of the season ... no overheating issues and normal oil pressure ... so not sure it was a head gasket

Hasn't touched water since last fall / winterization  ... so if the block was cracked this winter, hasn't had a chance to get water in via a cracked block

Volume of "water" is darn close to what could be in the drain hose.

..... now that my optimism  is out of the way, what are the odds I'm screwed?!

My plan is now that I have fresh oil in it, I figured I would drop it in the lake,  run in for like 30-60 mins watching the oil pressure and temp like a hawk.  After that, drain out like 1 qt. of oil after it cools and see how much more water / milk I get.   Add a quart, repeat the process to try and flush any water through and out... after a few of these flushes if I keep getting water I assume I'll have a problem and its time to check compression.  If the water is gone after a flush or two of oil, can I safely assume I just got condensation in there?!

 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

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Rough idea of what came out of the hose.... there was another ~32 oz. of oil that was removed on top of this + what was in the filter looked good.

 

So the right jug was the initial flow of what I didn't want to see.... everything after the first 30 seconds was "good" old oil.

oRTCQK5.jpg

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That was going to be my first check after running it a bit this spring if the oil keeps coming up milky.   You think its worth doing that first?

Edited by sidekicknicholas
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So that does not look like a lot of water.  you can get some condensation during storage.  How do you store your boat? If it see dramatic quick temp changes  you can get significant condensation. But this is a good reason to change the oil well hot, warm, after some good running time at the end of the season.  I don't like seeing that but I might do as you said change it run it and have a look. If not if you want to do some investigation before starting the boat A leak down test is the way to go. you can tell if you have a problem where it likely is.

 

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 My experience with water in oil is that after it mixes, and is milkshake like, it takes a very long time, if ever to separate.  So the draining a quart/ add a quart won't work, it will just stay mixed.  After running a few minute, just check your dipstick, you'll know.

Edited by MadMan
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@sidekicknicholas:  A compression and/or leak down test may not catch it if a crack in the block, pistons at TDC may miss any lower bore problems.  Best way is to do a cooling system pressure test, on an automotive engine via a pressure gauge in place of the radiator cap.   For a marine engine, to do similar test you need to plug off the thermostat outlet path to the exhaust manifolds so the system can hold pressure, then use the inlet hose after the trans cooler as your other end to not add pressure to the cooler itself.  That should seal the system for a water side pressure check where you look for holding pressure over time as the criteria.  A good auto parts store should have a loaner or rentable system to use, but not any adapters to make it fit / work.

  • Like 2
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Lets play a new game with this called ... how screwed am I?!

 

So last night put the boat in the water for the first time and noticed a fair amount of water pumping out of the engine ... one of the expansion plugs in the engine (port stern plug) was laying in the bottom of the boat.   Seems pretty obvious now that there was still some water in the block that pushed this out.  What are the odds this lil guy pushed out and my block is in-tact vs. it pushed out and my block is wrecked to go with it.

 

I got a new rubber plug to replace the brass expansion plug, figured pop that in and try again ... if the oil stays water free and the block itself isn't leaking I assume I'm okay.  If I get a milkshake or the block has an obvious crack... I assume I'm pretty screwed

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23 minutes ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Lets play a new game with this called ... how screwed am I?!

 

So last night put the boat in the water for the first time and noticed a fair amount of water pumping out of the engine ... one of the expansion plugs in the engine (port stern plug) was laying in the bottom of the boat.   Seems pretty obvious now that there was still some water in the block that pushed this out.  What are the odds this lil guy pushed out and my block is in-tact vs. it pushed out and my block is wrecked to go with it.

 

I got a new rubber plug to replace the brass expansion plug, figured pop that in and try again ... if the oil stays water free and the block itself isn't leaking I assume I'm okay.  If I get a milkshake or the block has an obvious crack... I assume I'm pretty screwed

I don't like being a pessimist, but this is sounding pretty bad.

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41 minutes ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Lets play a new game with this called ... how screwed am I?!

 

So last night put the boat in the water for the first time and noticed a fair amount of water pumping out of the engine ... one of the expansion plugs in the engine (port stern plug) was laying in the bottom of the boat.   Seems pretty obvious now that there was still some water in the block that pushed this out.  What are the odds this lil guy pushed out and my block is in-tact vs. it pushed out and my block is wrecked to go with it.

 

I got a new rubber plug to replace the brass expansion plug, figured pop that in and try again ... if the oil stays water free and the block itself isn't leaking I assume I'm okay.  If I get a milkshake or the block has an obvious crack... I assume I'm pretty screwed

I'm an optimist, and will assume the expansion plug sacrificed itself to save the block ;).

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Quote

I'm an optimist, and will assume the expansion plug sacrificed itself to save the block ;)

I'm going out of my way today to be extra nice and helpful to those around me... trying to store up some karma ASAP.

  • Like 2
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2 hours ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Lets play a new game with this called ... how screwed am I?!

 

So last night put the boat in the water for the first time and noticed a fair amount of water pumping out of the engine ... one of the expansion plugs in the engine (port stern plug) was laying in the bottom of the boat.   Seems pretty obvious now that there was still some water in the block that pushed this out.  What are the odds this lil guy pushed out and my block is in-tact vs. it pushed out and my block is wrecked to go with it.

 

I got a new rubber plug to replace the brass expansion plug, figured pop that in and try again ... if the oil stays water free and the block itself isn't leaking I assume I'm okay.  If I get a milkshake or the block has an obvious crack... I assume I'm pretty screwed

I'd assume you are pretty screwed,  The popped core plug and the water in the oil paint a picture of an improperly winterized block that froze and pushed both directions.

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Maybe this is a stupid question but ...

 

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and the water in the oil paint a picture of an improperly winterized block

 

The water was in the oil but the boat hasn't been run since last fall, so any damage this winter wouldn't have had any oil or water circulate through the engine... would that still account for water in the oil?  I assume that would mean I cracked some path for water to flow to the oil pan below after any ice melted in the spring.  I'm not entirely sure how everything mates up / could mix in a crack situation.

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assuming you didn't run the boat before you changed the oil, right??  And now you have run the boat.  Milkshake or no milkshake, that is the question.

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14 minutes ago, sidekicknicholas said:

The water was in the oil but the boat hasn't been run since last fall, so any damage this winter wouldn't have had any oil or water circulate through the engine... would that still account for water in the oil?  I assume that would mean I cracked some path for water to flow to the oil pan below after any ice melted in the spring.  I'm not entirely sure how everything mates up / could mix in a crack situation.


Not a stupid question at all.

Cooling channels run all over the place, and cracks can happen just about anywhere. 
If there was a good amount of water left in a tight spot, it could crack on the inside, then seep down that crack inside to the crankcase run into the oil pan. 

I'm sorta in the camp that it's likely a cracked block. I hope we're all wrong though!
Run it and see.

 

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31 minutes ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Maybe this is a stupid question but ...

 

 

The water was in the oil but the boat hasn't been run since last fall, so any damage this winter wouldn't have had any oil or water circulate through the engine... would that still account for water in the oil?  I assume that would mean I cracked some path for water to flow to the oil pan below after any ice melted in the spring.  I'm not entirely sure how everything mates up / could mix in a crack situation.

The water that froze and pushed out the core plug would have also pushed through a crack that it caused in the block and wound up in the oil.

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assuming you didn't run the boat before you changed the oil, right??  And now you have run the boat.  Milkshake or no milkshake, that is the question.

 

Rough timeline:

Fall '17 - No issues, boat ran great, pulled for the season and winterized (or so I thought)

Last week '18 - I drained the oil and found some water in it (pictured above) .... hadn't been run, turned over, anything since the prior fall.

Last night night - Noticed the freeze plug was out and water came flowing out of there when I fired it up... shut it down  after abour 30 seconds, pulled the boat out.  It was pretty dark when we tried this so I haven't checked the new oil yet.

Today - Bought a rubber plug to replace the freeze plug and planned to try again ... but at work until about 1pm today.

 

Edited by sidekicknicholas
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1 minute ago, sidekicknicholas said:

 

Rough timeline:

Fall '17 - No issues, boat ran great, pulled for the season and winterized (or so I thought)

Last week '18 - I drained the oil and found some water in it (pictured above) .... hadn't been run, turned over, anything since the prior fall.

Last night night - Noticed the freeze plug was out and water came flowing out of there when I fired it up... shut it down  after abour 30 seconds, pulled the boat out.  It was pretty dark when we tried this so I haven't checked the new oil yet.

Today - Bought a rubber plug to replace the freeze plug and planned to try again ... but at work until about 1pm today.

 

Out of curiosity - rubber plug?  Why?  Get yourself a proper brass core plug

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Out of curiosity - rubber plug?  Why?  Get yourself a proper brass core plug

I plan on ordering one, but couldn't find anything locally.  I would like to continue to trouble shoot things vs. wait a week to order a brass one.  The other issue is the plug that popped out is reaaaaally tight behind a motor mount.  My hope was the engine is okay, I run the rubber one until a brass shows up and I replace it in the fall in case I need to pull the motor mount off.

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1 minute ago, sidekicknicholas said:

I plan on ordering one, but couldn't find anything locally.  I would like to continue to trouble shoot things vs. wait a week to order a brass one.  The other issue is the plug that popped out is reaaaaally tight behind a motor mount.  My hope was the engine is okay, I run the rubber one until a brass shows up and I replace it in the fall in case I need to pull the motor mount off.

I'd be worried about melting/puking out a rubber poop pipe test plug in an engine.

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I figured if this was a common replacement option it either works well or wouldn't be on the shelf.  The way the hole is, it can't enter past the lip of the hole and there is a brass plate on the bottom to help keep some level of speration between rubber and internals.  Still possible for there to be an issue, but given the situation, not sure I have a ton to lose right now.

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5 hours ago, sidekicknicholas said:

I figured if this was a common replacement option it either works well or wouldn't be on the shelf.  The way the hole is, it can't enter past the lip of the hole and there is a brass plate on the bottom to help keep some level of speration between rubber and internals.  Still possible for there to be an issue, but given the situation, not sure I have a ton to lose right now.

New one on me.  They sell compression splices for brake lines too and i wouldnt consider that either. 

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Didn't fit anyway .... Too much material to clear the engine mount.  I got the old ones back in and will maybe try again tonight when the ramp dies down to see how thing go.

 

I don't expect the old ones to be a perminant fix, but can't trouble shoot anything without those holes plugged.

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3 minutes ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Didn't fit anyway .... Too much material to clear the engine mount.  I got the old ones back in and will maybe try again tonight when the ramp dies down to see how thing go.

 

I don't expect the old ones to be a perminant fix, but can't trouble shoot anything without those holes plugged.

Id pick up a fake a lake and test in driveway.  You have too many potential issues to be playing in the lake.  Better to puke oil laden water in the driveway. 

Edited by oldjeep
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