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Battery charger killing my battery?


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Each year as part of winterization I disconnect my battery. Come spring, a bit before our first outing I put a battery charger on it. (I have a Schumacher XC75 charger.) It seems like the last couple of years, at some point the charger will indicate some kind of error and I subsequently find out my battery needs to be replaced. This year it seems to be happening again. Error was "F06" which is "The charger detected that the battery may be getting too hot."

I had it on slow charge, so I didn't think that would cause a thermal runaway. So I thought maybe it was just the actual ambient temperature causing the problem. (It was in the boat, which was on my covered boat lift, with a mooring cover on.) So I tried it again with the cover off the boat so there would be better circulation. The display on the charger alternates between the volts and percentage charged. The volts showed 12, but the percentage never got above 69%. I pulled it off the charger and hooked it up to the boat just to see what I got, and it didn't even have enough juice to run the blower. So I tried one more time to charge, this time on fast rate, and it never got above 3%. (But I only gave it a couple hours before I had to leave.)

Now, after re-reading my charger manual, I see the description of the charge rates:

Maintain - Used to keep stored, lead-acid batteries charged. Charges and maintains small batteries. Maintains large batteries that are already fully charged.
Slow Charge Rate – Intended for charging small batteries such as those commonly used in garden tractors, snowmobiles and motorcycles. Also used to completely charge deep cycle batteries.
Fast Charge Rate - Use for charging automotive, marine and light truck batteries. Not intended for industrial applications.

So, did I kill my battery by using the Slow charge rate? (It's a Marine Starting battery, not a Deep Cycle battery.) Or might it be OK and I just have to give it more time on Fast Charge Rate?

Also, is my battery just a cheap POS to begin with? It's an EverStart 24MS. That's WalMart's brand, but I understand it's made by Johnson Controls, which also makes Duralast, Varta, AC Delco, DieHard and dozens of other brands.

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6 hours ago, MadDogMike said:

So, did I kill my battery by using the Slow charge rate? (It's a Marine Starting battery, not a Deep Cycle battery.) Or might it be OK and I just have to give it more time on Fast Charge Rate?

No, you didn't kill the battery with the slow charge rate, any of those modes would be OK.

The battery probably just got too discharged over the winter.  How long had it been since being charged?

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18 minutes ago, MadMan said:

No, you didn't kill the battery with the slow charge rate, any of those modes would be OK.

The battery probably just got too discharged over the winter.  How long had it been since being charged?

Battery was brand new last spring. Last use was probably October, should have been fully charged then just from the boat's alternator. So really only 6 months. A friend tells me he charges his battery at the end of the season and then just leaves it until spring. His battery is 8 years old and still running strong.

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Once you suspect an issue, you can no longer rely on the charger's display to tell you the condition of the battery or its status. We need to use a volt meter to check the battery state and charger's output.

The next thing, would be knowing the battery's state prior to connecting the charger for the first time. Good chance the battery was toast prior to attempting to charge. In this case, the charger is telling the truth. 

It is totally possible that the charger is the root cause. It may be over or under charging. 

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1 hour ago, MLA said:

Good chance the battery was toast prior to attempting to charge. In this case, the charger is telling the truth. 

It is totally possible that the charger is the root cause. It may be over or under charging. 

Why is it a good chance that a 1-year day of battery is already toast? It cranked the boat fine all last season and never gave any indication of any problem. I don’t think we ran the stereo excessively. If we did I think we would have noticed a degradation in cranking performance, no?

I’m wondering, based on the manual’s description of Slow Charge Rate, if it’s under charging as you suggest. I always thought a slow charge rate was better, but maybe not. 

WalMart’s automotive department is going to charge & test it for me, but I don’t have a lot of confidence. I expect, like last time, they’ll tell me the battery is toast and that it’s just past the 1 year warranty, so tough luck!

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10 hours ago, MadDogMike said:

 (I have a Schumacher XC75 charger.)

I had it on slow charge,

I don't think that is designed to be a winter maintainer or trickle charger - which generally automatically switch from charging to maintenance (sensing mode) and back when needed,.  Chances are you overcharged the battery and toasted it.

Look for something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CITK8S/

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25 minutes ago, MadDogMike said:

Why is it a good chance that a 1-year day of battery is already toast?

I don't like stating the obvious, but it's because the battery is not charging.  So it's either the battery or the charger.

 

29 minutes ago, MadDogMike said:

WalMart’s automotive department is going to charge & test it for me, but I don’t have a lot of confidence. I expect, like last time, they’ll tell me the battery is toast and that it’s just past the 1 year warranty, so tough luck!

This is the reason I don't buy marine batteries, I just use automotive ones, they have a much longer warranty.

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6 hours ago, MadDogMike said:

Why is it a good chance that a 1-year day of battery is already toast?

The age of a battery makes little difference if a battery was put away under charged or became low, over the winter lay up. A couple cold days and the battery will never fully recover, regardless of its age or time in use prior. 

 

6 hours ago, MadDogMike said:

m wondering, based on the manual’s description of Slow Charge Rate, if it’s under charging as you suggest. I always thought a slow charge rate was better, but maybe not. 

Slow charge is great when its at the end of the charge cycle. If its a continuous low charge without ever going into a float or idle mode, it will over charge. Not enough bulk rate (hi-rate) at the beginning, and the battery doesnt get the kick on the pants it need, to start taking a charge.   

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22 hours ago, minnmarker said:

I don't think that is designed to be a winter maintainer or trickle charger - which generally automatically switch from charging to maintenance (sensing mode) and back when needed,.  Chances are you overcharged the battery and toasted it.

Look for something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CITK8S/

It does actually have a "Maintain" mode, but that wasn't what I used. I suppose I could have just left it in Maintain all winter, but since I didn't, I just wanted to make sure the battery was fully charged before my first outing.

16 hours ago, MLA said:

Slow charge is great when its at the end of the charge cycle. If its a continuous low charge without ever going into a float or idle mode, it will over charge. Not enough bulk rate (hi-rate) at the beginning, and the battery doesnt get the kick on the pants it need, to start taking a charge.   

It's designed to go into Maintain mode once it reaches full charge. Problem is that the charger actually seemed to discharge my battery rather than charge it.

22 hours ago, MadMan said:

I don't like stating the obvious, but it's because the battery is not charging.  So it's either the battery or the charger.

Yeah, I know it's either the battery or the charger. I was asking him why he thought it was the battery vs. the charger. :blush:

Quote

The age of a battery makes little difference if a battery was put away under charged or became low, over the winter lay up. A couple cold days and the battery will never fully recover, regardless of its age or time in use prior. 

Well, the verdict is in and the battery is fine. WalMart was able to fully charge it and it tests fine. They told me that it's fairly common with these batteries, people come in saying their chargers won't charge it, but their charger at the store charges it just fine. 

So, either the charger is just totally shot, or just that damn slow charge rate is the culprit. I found something on their website about the slow rate, that says it's "intended for small batteries such as motorcycles, snowmobiles and lawn garden tractors" and that "the battery may discharge at a greater rate than the charger can provide." So, definitely not using that mode again!

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16 hours ago, MLA said:

Not enough bulk rate (hi-rate) at the beginning, and the battery doesnt get the kick on the pants it need, to start taking a charge. 

11 minutes ago, MadDogMike said:

or just that damn slow charge rate is the culprit.

So what is the charger's initial or peak output? 

 

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I've been able to bring some batteries back from the dead using "start" mode on a charger.  I don't think I would want to use on of these revived batteries as my sole battery on a boat though. 

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8 hours ago, MLA said:

So what is the charger's initial or peak output? 

 

According to the manual, it's 5 amps on the slow setting, and 10 - 20 amps on the fast setting. 

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20A is enough to de-sulfate most any battery. Too long at this rate and it will over charge. 3A slow is ok to finish the charge, but is that the 2nd to last phase? 3A long term will over charge. What is their float mode? This I did not find in a quick search.

Either way, I would suspect a faulty charger or a charger thats not ideal for plugging in and walking away. 

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formulaben
On 5/13/2018 at 10:38 PM, MadDogMike said:

Also, is my battery just a cheap POS to begin with? It's an EverStart 24MS. That's WalMart's brand, but I understand it's made by Johnson Controls, which also makes Duralast, Varta, AC Delco, DieHard and dozens of other brands.

No, those are good batteries.  I too suspect the charger.  By way of example, check page 11 of this charger manual and note the 8-step charging process, ending with maintenance.  It is explicitly stated that it may be left on indefinitely.  Not always the case with some chargers.

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4 hours ago, MLA said:

20A is enough to de-sulfate most any battery. Too long at this rate and it will over charge.

As I said above, it's designed to go into Maintain mode once it reaches full charge. Don't know the answers to your other questions.

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