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denali66

Check Engine No Throttle

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denali66

Hi,

I am chasing an issue with my 2006 247 with the 8.1. The boat runs good but I am having an issue when I start the boat it throws a check engine code and will not give me any throttle. I replaced the throttle body and the module on the throttle controller as well. I have played with it a little and got it to go but I cannot replicate that. I am leaning towards replacing the wiring between the throttle body and the controller but I am looking for any information I can get. Is this something that could be in the computer? Is this something anyone has ever seen?

 

thank you

 

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oldjeep

What codes is it throwing? 

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TimbrSS

I had this happen a few rare times on mine, always after a slow start. Shut off and restart always fixed it, so I haven't looked into much farther.... So no help, but you're not alone.

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denali66

I do not recall what the code number was. But it was a code that was for the TPS of the throttle body. I replaced both. Last night I tried to get it to replicate the problem on purpose and I cannot. But I put the old TPS back in it and it did not throw the code again. I replaced it last year because of the codes so I don't have any confidence that it won't throw the code again. I am now not sure if I have a broken wire or if the ECM needs reflashed or if it is not sending the right voltage. I feel like I am chasing a ghost. I need some help badly!!!

 

The code it threw last year under the same conditions was Code 81 (TAC). That is what drove us to replace the components we replaced.

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denali66

here is the write up I did last year for the boat dealer that I had trying to help me. I am not sure this helps at all.

 

I am trying to diagnose a problem with my 2006 Malibu Wakesetter 247 with an 8.1 and 860 hours.

The early symptoms were:

· The boat would go into limp mode when my rider would fall and I would stop and go to turn around. Once I would pull the throttle out of gear and put it in neutral the boat would throw a check engine code on the LCD screen and it would only go in gear. It would not throttle up. I would turn the key off and restart the boat and it would be fine. Until the next rider fell. This happened intermittently but pretty regularly.

After plugging the boat in to a computer we got a code number Code 81 (TAC). So we did some research on this and read many forums and everything pointed to the actuator on the engine. So we replaced it. I took the boat back to the river and the same thing happened. So I called Andrew at Bakes and we discussed the linkage in the throttle and I made an adjustment to the nut and jam nut. I moved them about 1/16” in each direction and tried it. It seemed to work for about a day. Then it started throwing the check engine code again. Not only was it doing it when my rider would fall but it started doing it while they were riding and the boat would suddenly stop.

So I called Andrew again to discuss replacing the potentiometer at the throttle. We decided to change it. I installed it last weekend and the boat seemed to work great. So I brought 8 people out on the boat and loaded it down for surfing. On the first pull the boat cut out while they were surfing. I have been using the cruise control during every one of these instances. The boat has never done it while I was not in cruise. So I turned the cruise off and just ran the boat manually for the rest of the day and had no issues.

This makes me think there is a problem in the cruise control but I would have no way to know where to start considering the code that the computer is throwing is still a Code 81 (TAC). I am wondering if there is a problem with the paddle wheel. Or something electronic in the cruise system. But I am at a loss and don’t know where to go from here. I prefer to use the cruise when I have riders so if there is a path to fix this I would really like to know if you have any ideas.

One other piece of information is the stereo will kick the cruise out because the bass rattles the handle up and eventually out of position. But if this is a voltage issue is the stereo a possible problem. If so why would it start now. I replaced all 3 batteries in the boat and it has never been a problem until this year.

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JeffK

Until your very last sentence, I was going to suggest you had a low voltage or battery issue.  Maybe not the case.  I'd still check voltage while on to ensure your alternator is charging correctly.  The 8.1 was notorious for idle flare and requiring a ton of cranking power to keep the ecm charged up enough at start.  If you start it with low voltage, the ecm seems to get flaky and you'll have some unexplained things that happen.  Seems strange that it only applies when the cruise is being used.  There were a couple software updates to that boat in that timeframe.  I'd make sure everything you have is current.  I'd also try to start it with your stereo and everything else except the blower off.  Does your throttle body seem to snap closed easily?  Could the spring be wearing out?  With the errors you suggested, replacing the throttle body motor and the TPS usually help.

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denali66

The throttle seems to operate normally when it lets me have control of it. I think I am dealing with a couple issues here. I wondered if the spring in the control could be out and that is why that sound vibrates the handle out of position.

Is there a place where I can get the information for how many volts I need to the ecm? I messed around with the control more and finally put the old TPS back in the boat. I took it out after I got off work yesterday and it acted completely normal. other than the throttle moving when music is playing. So I have no confidence that the problem is resolved. I will have to do a continuity check next time it throws the code. Then I will check for voltage and such.

thank you for all the support.

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JeffK

If you are using the throttle when the cruise is engaged, it doesn't let you over-throttle easily.  You sure it was true limp mode and not just restricting throttle due to the cruise?  While engaged, you can slam the throttle to the stops, but it may not give you full throttle unless you can get the cruise disengaged.  Based on your last post, I think everything is working as intended.  You may have a loose throttle due to the stereo and throttle scenario though.  I can't remember for sure, but there should be a spring as part of that assembly.

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hunter77ah

Clean the intake/spark arrestor if you haven't already.

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denali66

Jeff,

I am not able to take control of the throttle when the cruise control is engaged. That part is working as intended. The issue there was either the music would rattle the controller and it would tell me "more throttle". otherwise it would lose speed on me. That part makes sense. what doesn't make sense is when we are surfing and the cruise is operating normally there were several occasions where the boat cut out all together. The cruise died and the boat goes to a dead stick. When I say dead stick I mean I can go in and out of gear but I have no throttle. I am limited to movement under idle speed. I think I will try to reflash my ECM . That is what one of my dealers has suggested. I would like to think when I find the smoking gun that it will be linked to all of the problems.

 

Hunter77,

I do a regular maintenance on the boat. Part of that includes the cleaning the spark arrestor. But I will take a closer look at it when I get home just to be sure I am not missing something there as well.

 

You guys are awesome I really appreciate your efforts in helping me get this resolved. Nothing worse than not having confidence in the boat. I have always had a very reliable machine. Thank you.

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JeffK

If you swap the TPS, there is typically a relearn process that has to happen, IIRC.  That can cause some issues. 

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denali66

What is IIRC? Would turning the batteries off and a restart correct that?

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formulaben

IIRC=  If I recall correctly.

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JeffK
4 hours ago, denali66 said:

What is IIRC? Would turning the batteries off and a restart correct that?

Not necessarily. I know with some autos, you disconnect the neg terminal and loop it to the positive to ensure all charge is gone. I'll see if I can find my old shop manuals for it. 

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denali66

That would be great. Thank you. I ran the boat again last night and it ran normal. I did not receive a code. Still the only thing I have done was put the old TPS in and then I replaced the kill switch. Other than the music vibrating the handle out of position while using cruise control there is no indication of what the issue was before. I am still waiting on information from the dealer about getting the ECM reflashed. As I learn more I will post. I did learn that a new ECM is pretty pricy. They want $2300 bucks for it. Also I thought the boat had a MEFI 4. The paperwork from Malibu says that it is a MEFI 5. Not sure that helps but maybe there are different issues with that ECM vs the MEFI 4. Just a thought.

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JasonK

The bass is shaking the throttle lever and the kill switch, right?

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denali66

yes the bass is causing the throttle handle to move from its cruise control position back towards the neutral position. Have you experienced this Jason? I was thinking about replacing the spring.

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denali66

That is a good article. I think I have done something like that but I am not sure the codes were cleared since then. Since I don't know if I performed my startup with the new throttle body that way I think I will do it. I only see it talking about the throttle body for this. Do you think it would be the same for the TPS?

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JeffK

TPS is part of the closed system.  Sometimes it is mounted on the throttle body, sometimes it is mounted on the back of the throttle control.  Ford engines usually have them mounted on the throttle body itself with a sensor at the pedal.  Ultimately, the procedure should be the same for the relearn.  I would disconnect the battery, give it time to discharge fully, then reconnect and key-on.  It should cycle the throttle body. 

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JeffK

Ok.  I dug out one of the manuals and need to get you to clarify.  Did you replace the TPS at the throttle body or the PPS (pedal position sensor) on the morse controller at the helm?

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JeffK

@denali66 - At the end of the day, I think your electronics are operating correctly and I think Andrew had you on the right track.  The cobwebs are a little thick for me at this point and I think you should contract teleflex and check in with them.  The friction and recall spring seem to be a little offset.  I'm guessing you might end up with a new throttle control, but they would be best to tell you that.  Is this what yours looks like?

 

001.jpg

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formulaben

If it is the same I can tell you that on that model (MV3, I believe) there is a leaf spring that would fail often...some time ago they changed the spring and you could buy the replacement part (they doubled up the springs) but now they no longer offer it and you have to buy a new unit.  The spring is roughly 1/4" by 2" with tabs on each long end to keep it in place.  Some spring material cut to size will work.

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denali66

So it looks like I cannot add a picture of what I have. But my controller has the TPS in it. My neutral knob is on the front side of the control stick. So it looks like my control is a little different than the one shown. But to be clear, I have replaced the TPS that is mounted to the backside of the controller and I have replaced the throttle body on the engine. When I started having the engine code I borrowed a shops computer and got the code. It was code 81 (TAC) TAC= Throttle Actuator Control. So I replaced it first. That didn't solve the problem of the boat going into the dead stick mode and throwing a code. So I replaced the TPS. It worked for about a day before it continued to throw a code and go into a dead stick. So that is probably the biggest issue I am chasing right now. I don't know what else I should replace. I just got a wiring diagram from Malibu. So if it throws the code again I was thinking I would do a continuity check from the TPS to the ECM. Then if that all checks out I would have the ECM reflashed.

As for the springback on the throttle control itself, I did notice that little leaf spring type thing was broke. it fell out the other day when I was messing with things. I asked my mechanic but he didn't have much to say about it. What does it do? Would that cause the cruise control to just stop while we are surfing? I tried to attach pictures of it but I couldn't. when I figure that out I will get them posted so you guys can see what I am talking about.

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JeffK

IIRC, your system has two Pedal Position Sensors (PPS) and an electronic neutral safety switch on the backside of the morse control.  One PPS opens as the other closes to ensure it has the correct position.  On your throttle body, you likely have a TPS, a throttle control module(TCM) and an IAC (Idle Air Controller). 

If you replaced something on the morse controller, I am pretty sure it is a PPS.  If you replaced the throttle body, it usually includes the TPS and control module. 

Your spring controls the friction and tension on your throttle and that broken spring is the reason the bass drops your throttle.  Heavy bumps in the water will do the same thing.  Until you replace the spring or the control itself, that issue will continue.  If the throttle drops back to neutral, the cruise will disengage. 

As I mentioned, I think everything in your electronics (TPS, PPS, TCM, IAC, etc) are all working fine or you wouldn't be operating the boat at all.  If it drops out of cruise, that is likely because the throttle itself drops out of the acceptable range for the speed setting you have.  I don't think you have replaced anything that wasn't necessary, so Andrew has you in the right direction.  I just don't think you are done yet.  You either need to replace the spring or get a new control for it.  I'd contact teleflex directly.

If this is still a little unclear, feel free to IM me your phone # and I'd be happy to call you.

Edited by JeffK

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