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ahopkinsVTX

2019 Model Year Updates/Changes

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ID AX
2 hours ago, PrestigeLakeWide said:

I'm sure its coming since Mastercraft already has it. You shot a little low though 😅

9ZWkn6n.png

But do they have free wireless charging included with it????  😂

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The Hulk

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Cory

Does anyone know whether they intend to introduce the new wakeview seating bench of the 25 LSV into the other boats (e.g., 23 or 22 LSV)?  

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05hammerhead
10 minutes ago, Cory said:

Does anyone know whether they intend to introduce the new wakeview seating bench of the 25 LSV into the other boats (e.g., 23 or 22 LSV)?  

I was told no, but hoping someone tells me differently before I order my boat. 

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kerpluxal
4 hours ago, The Hulk said:

its a simple fix: need to have my dealer do it this winter since its being stored there this year...ran out of room! err..  add 2 extra fill pumps near v-drive, 2 extra drain pumps to bottom of bags (will need custom WM bags with extra ports) if from factory i think they could easily add these pumps to the hard tanks and keep same WM (normal bags) i'll be curious what the speeds are for one larger pump like the M vs 2 smaller pumps? i think we could get fill times down to 30sec if you could hook up to that bow thruster pump! probably explode the tanks and bags ha! 

only issue i'll have is probably having to install relays for the added pumps. not sure if the standard fuse will handle 2 pumps (maybe) but also the wires going to the back of the boat are under-sized for a single pump let alone two pumps. so i figure add relays and run short wires from relay direct to pump to reduce voltage drop to the pumps. (probably not a big deal) but if re-wiring might as well make it easy for replacements with some quick connects off the relays for easy replacements. 

I can already tell you that the fuse will be too small... I know my boat is older but I don't see them upgrading to higher amp rating for no reason. The 1100 pump draws 3.6 amps.. add another and you will blow fuse.. I had no issues with the wires handling the 2 pumps.. just added a 10 amp fuse in box... with the areator pumps I did not add a relay either, if you are going to use reversible pumps, then you will have to use a relay. 

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IXFE
2 hours ago, Cory said:

Does anyone know whether they intend to introduce the new wakeview seating bench of the 25 LSV into the other boats (e.g., 23 or 22 LSV)?  

Pretty sure the answer is NO, at least for this year. I suspect it’s not a simple swap since the new seat utilizes the entire length of the 25’s cabin to move forward and back.  The price is not equal either so I’m certain people would complain. 

Here’s a pic of it all the way forward. Obviously this wouldn’t fit in the shorter boats. I’m sure they could modify the track, but that’s work. 

B2AFB8E9-E5CC-438A-ABBD-306C9F9D7609.png

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SCMike
13 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

 Yeah I get a lot of them seem like they should be standard but all that means is it will be built into the base msrp. Who cares if $450 shows up as a line item for a swivel drivers seat, you have the option to not select it. 

 

I like being able to option up or option down as well, but charging for a swivel drivers seat on the 2019 is pure price gouging.  This was a standard feature on my 2017vlx and 2018lsv, and now all of a sudden it’s a $450 line item? I don’t know why people are defending this type of pricing strategy??  The base MSRP on the 2019s went up, which should cover  the minor items that were redesigned.  That like Malibu all of a sudden charging $500 for hinges on the seats.  Sure, you can live without them if you don’t want to pay the additional $500, but who would?  To me this just seems like they are desperately trying to find areas to nickle and dime the customers.

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ahopkinsVTX
20 minutes ago, SCMike said:

I like being able to option up or option down as well, but charging for a swivel drivers seat on the 2019 is pure price gouging.  This was a standard feature on my 2017vlx and 2018lsv, and now all of a sudden it’s a $450 line item? I don’t know why people are defending this type of pricing strategy??  The base MSRP on the 2019s went up, which should cover  the minor items that were redesigned.  That like Malibu all of a sudden charging $500 for hinges on the seats.  Sure, you can live without them if you don’t want to pay the additional $500, but who would?  To me this just seems like they are desperately trying to find areas to nickle and dime the customers.

Lol you think you weren’t paying for the swivel seat in the msrp of the older boats? And the profit margin over the years has proven that they are not just raising prices to cover new items. It’s to keep in line with their raw materials and manufacturing costs. New designs and update costs are in the options prices for sure. 

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NWBU

BU base pricing is up 4% but Nautique was  up 6% this year. The extra optioning with the swivel seat and surfpipe required with the wedge adds to the 4%, so it’s probably more like a 4.5-5% increase for BU before adding other more discretionary options.

BU said on Tuesday they’re adding extra stations and hours to keep up with demand and Mastercraft said the same thing this afternoon. Both said demand is stronger than ever, even through October. Nautique is private so the only thing I know about them is hearsay that you’d better place your order soon if you want it for summer.

BU also talked about their optioning strategy again and specifically how so many of their customers are checking the extra boxes that they’re going to continue increasing the options. Personally I don’t like checking all the boxes for things I won’t really miss, and that was an issue when I was pricing G23/G25s this fall.

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ID AX
1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Lol you think you weren’t paying for the swivel seat in the msrp of the older boats? And the profit margin over the years has proven that they are not just raising prices to cover new items. It’s to keep in line with their raw materials and manufacturing costs. New designs and update costs are in the options prices for sure. 

He absolutely paid for it in the msrp of the '17 and so did you for your '19.  The difference is you had to check a box and then pay for it again as an option.  So who's Lol now?  :cheers:

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ahopkinsVTX
12 hours ago, ID AX said:

He absolutely paid for it in the msrp of the '17 and so did you for your '19.  The difference is you had to check a box and then pay for it again as an option.  So who's Lol now?  :cheers:

Me, because I’m not the one complaining about a $450 msrp option on 90-100k+ boats! Malibu’s profit has been basically flatlined since 2008 so that tells me that the yearly increased cost of msrp is due to keeping up with raw materials and manufacturing costs to put it simply. They aren’t gouging us. They aren’t trying to pull a fast one on us... at least that’s my opinion. I remember the conversation I had with our sales guy when we were specing the boat, he said you want the swivel seat right? I said yes, that’s an option now? He said yeah appears so with the new seat. I said ok and moved on with my life. Hadn’t thought about it again until this week. So if they did add it as an option to help offset the cost of the new seat then cool. I love the new seat, I’m still happy. 

Edited by ahopkinsVTX

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ID AX
1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Me, because I’m not the one complaining about a $450 msrp option on 90-100k+ boats! Malibu’s profit has been basically flatlined since 2008 so that tells me that the yearly increased cost of msrp is due to keeping up with raw materials and manufacturing costs to put it simply. They aren’t gouging us. They aren’t trying to pull a fast one on us... at least that’s my opinion. I remember the conversation I had with our sales guy when we were spacing the boat, he said you want the swivel seat right? I said yes, that’s an option now? He said yeah appears so with the new seat. I said ok and moved on with my life. Hadn’t thought about it again until this week. So if they did add it as an option to help offset the cost of the new seat then cool. I love the new seat, I’m still happy. 

As you  should be.  You are happy with the product and price paid, the perceived value is there for you.  Not everyone is Ahop though and different people see things different ways.  Clearly the pricing invokes different feelings.  As I said in an earlier post, I knew what the end result would be but still having to check each box felt meh.  I have never felt that Bu was trying to gouge me and honestly the only reason we chose a different brand is due to our perceived value.  The price structure had nothing to do with it.  In the end we feel we are getting the better value for our situation, regardless of the name on the side or how they type out their price sheet.  

 Having said that, most people become emotionally involved in the buying process and I think some peoples frustration stems from them not seeing the value in the product anymore.  I think we can all agree that if you post on here more than a couple times, you are probably not the typical boat owner.  I don't personally know anyone else on here but I know a lot of people with Malibu and Axis boats in the real world.  The majority of these people are die hard Bu or Ax fans, just like my die hard Tige brother and cousin.  So what does that make us??? Super fans?  I was once told  "Anything involving emotion ends badly or else it never ends."  I hope this forum continues with fans and people willing to complain.  That should lead to discussion which is the whole point of this place, right?  

Edited by ID AX
More clear

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ahopkinsVTX

I guess all I’m going to say to that is, if it’s because people don’t see the value in the product/option, then why are they buying it?

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23LSVOwner

An old adage applies here.

 

You can serve someone the perfect steak and they would still complain because it wasn't served on a gold plate.

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granddaddy55

And these are cut to order aged steaks easily visible in the restaurant meat counter , at what point in your ordering process after you pass that meat cabinet did you become dissatisfied with your choice, when they asked you whether you wanted to pay for mushrooms and onions ??  They let you select the porterhouse or you can opt for the small sirloin , they just wsnt to know if you want mushrooms and onions for it

come on, that’s what an A20 with 9 or 10 options is all about, being happy with my perceived value, don’t select the main line and go the generic route to keep your costs down if your having a perceived value problem or don’t buy s boat

i think the real problem is that with 20 year financing people are buying what in reality they can only afford it cause of a 20 year note size and their trying to maneuver that down because they also have the costs of ownership on top of that and the total is just at their limit , 

I bet if folks were buying what they could afford with massive down payments and shorter loan terms they wouldn’t be so edgy about this , they would select the necessary like cleats and bypass a lot of the other more pricey options because they would be trying to stay well under their means which is the same thinking of the big down payment 

like a used boat buyer does if he’s smart is pay cash or huge down and tiny short note as these are the guys selling for what they bought less improvements and maintenance 

Edited by granddaddy55

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ID AX

Says the guy who jumps at every opportunity to point out that cleats should be standard option and how much you took it to the dealer to get them.  Ride the fence much?

 

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05hammerhead
10 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Malibu’s profit has been basically flatlined since 2008 

This may be true, but also note they now have 11 hull types vs 4(??) + full axis line(5 more hulls).  Im not mad about how they do business. Ive done some of that hidden stuff too trying to bring price points down, etc, but Id rather see them look into manufacturing processes to bring costs down instead of going up.  That said, people will buy more boats than they can build today, so screw nickle and diming stuff, charge what you can and get the damn boat out. 

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granddaddy55
52 minutes ago, ID AX said:

Says the guy who jumps at every opportunity to point out that cleats should be standard option and how much you took it to the dealer to get them.  Ride the fence much?

 

But I thought I was getting standard cleats that didn’t pop up that could catch the rope as far as I was concerned then  when I found out I had no cleats , their ridiculousness -dealer, I insisted they add them as we had already thoroughly negotiated my price that I thought included standard no pop up cleats, it wasn’t the $245.00 for two pair that was a problem , it was the fact they ordered me a boat with none

both sides , yes, but consistent in the CHEAP part that you guys can’t wuite get ahold of when ordering expensive NEW boats , mine was under $50000.00 brand new 

oh and ask me how  much I liked going in @ConnollyCrew‘s 18 LSV reasonably optioned, WOW!! I’m a complete expensive boat wh*r* and try to  go in them from every brand every chance I get 

so yes both sides but at least I know in which side of the accounting ledger I belong on

Edited by granddaddy55

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SCMike
11 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Me, because I’m not the one complaining about a $450 msrp option on 90-100k+ boats!

It’s not the money, it’s the principal and the strategy to pull standard features and move them to the paid options category.  Do you think Malibu reduced the MSRP $450 when they pulled the swivel seat out of the standard column and moved it to the option column?  Now way!  They actually increased the MSRP and are now getting another $450 for the swivel on top what they were charging last year.  

The point I was trying to make in my earlier post was where does this all stop?  Would we still be ok with Malibu all of a sudden charging us for things like hinges on the seats, or the convienience to fold the town down?  If MSRP went down, and then options went up I could inderstand. 

I know Malibu has a business to run, and I fully understand prices go up, I think this particul province strategy seems petty.  Just add it to the MSRP and be done with it.  Don’t start turning every feature into a paid option. 

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ahopkinsVTX
35 minutes ago, SCMike said:

It’s not the money, it’s the principal and the strategy to pull standard features and move them to the paid options category.  Do you think Malibu reduced the MSRP $450 when they pulled the swivel seat out of the standard column and moved it to the option column?  Now way!  They actually increased the MSRP and are now getting another $450 for the swivel on top what they were charging last year.  

The point I was trying to make in my earlier post was where does this all stop?  Would we still be ok with Malibu all of a sudden charging us for things like hinges on the seats, or the convienience to fold the town down?  If MSRP went down, and then options went up I could inderstand. 

I know Malibu has a business to run, and I fully understand prices go up, I think this particul province strategy seems petty.  Just add it to the MSRP and be done with it.  Don’t start turning every feature into a paid option. 

I understand what you are saying but neither of us will ever know if it was a) ever built into the msrp to begin with, b) if they deducted it from the msrp if it was included. I just know that based on their production numbers and annual profits over the past decade that they have maintained the same profit margin while ramping up models and production significantly. That just says to me that the msrp increases are needed based on raw materials, manufacturing costs, etc. To me it doesn’t seem petty at all but we obviously aren’t going to agree on that. I do feel you are making a pretty bold jump to say where does this all stop and then compare it to hinges on seats. I mean since we all love to hate car analogies, you still have to upgrade most cars to get power adjustable driver and passenger seats. Isn’t the swivel on a seat that allows you to swivel without a swivel base the same thing? Car seats are adjustable without being powered. 

Anyway... it’s snowing here. Winter has begun...

Edited by ahopkinsVTX

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UWSkier

So Nautique is up 6% and their seat still spins?

Malibu is up 4% and their seat doesn't spin anymore without checking a box?

Maybe Malibu should make a 6% edition line that has every option every year.

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spikew919

Profit margins are easily manipulated. Anyone that has a business knows this. It’s best to show the least profit to avoid Uncle Sam all you can. Most businesses  will ramp profit margins when they are wanting to sale and vice versa. It’s a numbers game. 

Not saying they are manipulating numbers but, just saying most businesses do. 🤭

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Raimie

I struggle a bit with the swivel only because it was included for many years, only to be taken out. I think the analogy with the seat hinges above is spot on. Axis doesn't have seat hinges, its reasonable to think that Malibu would switch this to an option the same way they did on the seat swivel.
 

In the end, I don't think any of this actually changes our bottom lines when we purchase the boats. It is however allowing Malibu to play numbers games with margins, yearly increases, etc...

I do think it can impact how Malibu is perceived by potential new buyers that are comparing with competing manufactures. It will depend on how dealers configure their showroom boats.

Once comment specifically on the seat. My guess is, 9 out of 10 times the buyer is also the primary driver. Seems like a mistake to me to take anything away from the helm area since this is where the decision maker/buyer/survey taker is spending most of their time.

 

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ID AX
1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

So Nautique is up 6% and their seat still spins?

Malibu is up 4% and their seat doesn't spin anymore without checking a box?

Maybe Malibu should make a 6% edition line that has every option every year.

So an interesting point when comparing the 22LSV and GS22.  When you add all of the Malibu options to have equal boats, the price difference becomes a lot less.  Now as I said before, you still get a free trailer with the Bu.  

To your point.  It would be interesting to see how many people would jump on said 6% Malibu edition.  I bet a lot of people would look at it and just say yup.  In fact I think Bu might be missing the boat here.  

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SCMike
10 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Anyway... it’s snowing here. Winter has begun...

Pretty obvious winter is upon us given the direction of this thread. Hahaha! 

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