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Dock/mooring poles


Ryan1776

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Hey everyone! Finally 80 here in Michigan! :biggrin:

This doesn't fit in this category, nor really any of the other ones. Sorry! 

So I don't live ON the water. I'm 2 .5 houses down and across the street from my slip for my association. Only been here one summer, going into our second. 

Some random dude rolls up Saturday. Rings the bell. 
Hi I'm (whatever name he has) Bilbo, I'm the new boat/park/dock guy. Are you Ryan? 
Yes I am! Meet to nice you, I'm betting they still have me as Larry (old owners) in the guide? 
Yeah.
So I'm going to have to move your slip from number 7 to number 10. 
(that's 3 slips deeper and on the other side of the dock, full brunt of the waves and storms, stern out) 
Uh why?
Well we're putting a 12' section where you are to accommodate a boat hoist.
Me-Well they told me from day one we ALL get 10' and that's that. I was also told I was locked into my slip unless I want to move, now I need to buy longer poles because the ones I JUST BOUGHT last year won't be long enough now. 
Him-Too bad right, well I'll be seeing ya. 

So this is a first world problem to be sure. And my slip fees, well, I can fill the boat with fuel and pay more.
But I am irritated about this. My bet is HE want's that slip and 12' section. I digress. 

So my question is this. Last year with my 86 supra I had 4 poles and it was fine. But now the boat is twice as heavy, twice as big and the depth is say, maybe another 2-3' deeper.
I cannot tie into the main dock structure. I cannot  put my own dock out because, well, I only get 10'. 
I want a lift, it's not in the cards this year. Unless some mid season super spectacular deal shows up. 

I was thinking, whatever length poles with bottom plates to help "shore" them up to make sure they don't flex a lot. 
I'm curious as to what others have done in this situation. I could tie the poles together longitudinally, but that really won't help with sideways movement. 

Thoughts, comments? 

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How deep will it be for the deepest pole? If you think one pole isn't strong enough, just screw in 2 poles next to each other. You could also have poles midship and run a rope to the stern and the bow. That way you can have 3 or 4 poles tied to the bow and 4 poles tied to the stern.

Make sure you have bungy or stretch lines to absorb the shock of big waves.

My neighbors had a front pole that was so short it only stuck out of the water 1 inch. Worked fine. Looked bad.

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Personally, I would be finding out who made that call and fight it, my HOA is member owned and I have found that people do what the want cause they know that most people wont say anything cause they think they dont have any choice....and when they don't speak up, they keep doing what they want. But you speak up and start asking questions to the right person and the situation will likely change. He probably does want it for himself and figures the "new guy" doesn't know that he can say "no". Just my humble opinion, may be right or may be wrong but IMO, its worth trying to stay where you are. Sounds like a better spot

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18 hours ago, JasonK said:

How deep will it be for the deepest pole? If you think one pole isn't strong enough, just screw in 2 poles next to each other. You could also have poles midship and run a rope to the stern and the bow. That way you can have 3 or 4 poles tied to the bow and 4 poles tied to the stern.

Make sure you have bungy or stretch lines to absorb the shock of big waves.

Not 100% sure how deep yet. Min 5 feet. Previous location was approx 3.5.  Two poles next to each other might not offer TOO much extra though because the earth will be disturbed too much, right? Maybe not. Never have had to do that.
I LOVE  the idea of mid-ship poles. Great idea. 
I have a couple Ronix bungee dock lines. Probably gonna have to get a few more. 
I thought about using a cross brace for the front poles. 
Doing some trig. With some constraints,
6' high off the bottom on windward side
10' total span (width of slip)
Cross bar on the floor of lake on the leeward pole 
Go from the windward pole 6' up from bottom, 60° down to the base of the second pole which will have a 31° angle. With the 10 foot floor span, a little trig gets me a cross pole length of 11.6 feet. Doable with stock length poles.
The one thing I don't know is if there are variable angle pole clamps? Haven't googled yet. 
So the bow pole that would receive the highest amount of loading would be braced to the base of the leeward pole. Obviously can't do it on the stern side. Unless I run the cross pole pretty deep. Maybe 2 feet under. At a 5' depth of water, that would still be plenty of clearance. Mid point of the span is only 1' off the lake floor and 4' to the bottom of the hull. (all speculation on lake depth obviously)

10 hours ago, Infinitysurf said:

Personally, I would be finding out who made that call and fight it, my HOA is member owned and I have found that people do what the want cause they know that most people wont say anything cause they think they dont have any choice....and when they don't speak up, they keep doing what they want. But you speak up and start asking questions to the right person and the situation will likely change. He probably does want it for himself and figures the "new guy" doesn't know that he can say "no". Just my humble opinion, may be right or may be wrong but IMO, its worth trying to stay where you are. Sounds like a better spot

I know. I can't argue this sentiment. But I really don't know who I would argue to if the guy who controls that is the one that wants it. 
I have to pay my dues Thursday to a different guy and I'll be sure to ask him. He's been on the association for 800 years, so I'll see what he says. 

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6 minutes ago, JasonK said:

Quick, get a boat lift in your spot!

Got one I can have? lol New (to me) boat and 3 month old baby..... can't justify another 3-4k outlay right now......

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6 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

You could also reinforce a pole by having a slightly smaller pole inside of the slightly larger pole. 

Right, I'm not so worried about the pole bending or breaking, but that it'll just lean over as the moment of force is so large. As opposed to being in shallower water. 

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ahopkins22LSV

We use poles to temporarily moor up north when we are on vacation. We have an auger on the end of the pole and drive 2/3's to 3/4 the length of the pole into the ground. It doesn't budge at all. Sand bottom. We angle it away from the direction the boat will be pulling just slightly. We did bend a pole in a storm one year which is why we inserted them. Never even the slightest bend now.

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ahopkins22LSV

I would also suggest using some actual dock lines over the radar bungee cords. Those are good for short tie ups, but I don't know if I would trust them in a long term tie up. Dock lines

Maybe some snubbers too. These take the shock out of the line and the pole/cleat.

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11 hours ago, Infinitysurf said:

Personally, I would be finding out who made that call and fight it, my HOA is member owned and I have found that people do what the want cause they know that most people wont say anything cause they think they dont have any choice....and when they don't speak up, they keep doing what they want. But you speak up and start asking questions to the right person and the situation will likely change. He probably does want it for himself and figures the "new guy" doesn't know that he can say "no". Just my humble opinion, may be right or may be wrong but IMO, its worth trying to stay where you are. Sounds like a better spot

I agree.  I think most people on this post are missing this part.

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48 minutes ago, Arick said:

I agree.  I think most people on this post are missing this part.

I don't disagree with his thoughts on the actions, I'm also not sure if people are missing that, it's just that I don't think anything will happen and I'm screwed. So they're helping me with how to make the best case out of this. 

 

52 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

I would also suggest using some actual dock lines over the radar bungee cords. Those are good for short tie ups, but I don't know if I would trust them in a long term tie up. Dock lines

Maybe some snubbers too. These take the shock out of the line and the pole/cleat.

Those snubbers are cool! Nice idea.


I had a thought, would there be any reason to NOT park the boat stern into the dock?
Would help quite a few things. 
1-Now it's bow into the the wind/waves
2-MUCH easier to cover and  remove cover as I'll be able to walk it down the normal way.
3-Easier for ingress/egress into the boat by passengers.

 


 

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ahopkins22LSV

I would definitely back in if you can. Always best to have the bow out to the waves.

Also, you can make your own "snubber" for much much less. We replicated this style snubber with heaver duty black bungee. But we also have a safety line that is just longer then the line with the bungee fully extended. Works great.

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Just take your bungee lines and have a slightly longer normal dock line accompanied with it. Win win. 

Backing into slips can be really hard if you’re doing it all alone, especially if it’s a narrow slip. 

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8 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Just take your bungee lines and have a slightly longer normal dock line accompanied with it. Win win. 

Backing into slips can be really hard if you’re doing it all alone, especially if it’s a narrow slip. 

Hsd do to back in narrow slip a few years ago and I ran rspe from the front poles to the bsck that you can use to pull the back in.  Most lake association have a lot of strange rules, what lake are you on. 

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59 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Also, you can make your own "snubber" for much much less. We replicated this style snubber with heaver duty black bungee. But we also have a safety line that is just longer then the line with the bungee fully extended. Works great.

Love it! 

41 minutes ago, onamission said:

Hsd do to back in narrow slip a few years ago and I ran rspe from the front poles to the bsck that you can use to pull the back in.  Most lake association have a lot of strange rules, what lake are you on.

That's a killer idea. 
Loon in Waterford. 

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My 1990 Euro f3 was moored for 15 years with only one pole at the bow (bow out) with the bow pole in 5ft. of water. Never bent. I think it is a 12 ft. pole.

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formulaben
6 hours ago, JasonK said:

Quick, get a boat lift in your spot!

 

6 hours ago, Ryan1776 said:

Got one I can have? lol New (to me) boat and 3 month old baby..... can't justify another 3-4k outlay right now......

I would at the very least inquire about it...nothing says you need to install it "right now."

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You don't have a lease or title agreement with the property that show the terms of your slip and position?  That seems very odd.   Heck I even have to sign a yearly lease agreement with the marina I have my slip at, so if I owned property with a slip, I would think it would define those terms as well.  

 

Put the guy that wants 12' on the end....is that not a possibility?  Not sure why others should have to be put out to accommodate him.  

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Oh, and I'd request the HOA to send me a letter stating I need to move vs. just some guy knocking on my door and telling me.  I'm not usually one to cause much of a stir over things, but in this case, my first inclination would not be "well, shucks, random dude at my door says it shall be this way, so I guess I'll go figure it out".    

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These lifts are on the cheap, if you can swing it.  Right in your neighborhood and WAY less than $3 to $4k.

$1,200 and can deliver if needed:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bpo/d/boat-hoist-lift/6575233260.html

$1,400 with a 110 electric motor, used for an X9 currently:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/d/boat-hoist-lift-for-sale/6568318205.html

$1,400 OBO, great shape:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/d/shore-station-aluminum-boat/6559541691.html

Does the new unprotected spot also mean a less obstructed view of the lake?

 

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On 5/1/2018 at 2:33 PM, Ryan1776 said:

 Last year with my 86 supra I had 4 poles and it was fine. But now the boat is twice as heavy, twice as big and the depth is say, maybe another 2-3' deeper.
 

Wait - you have a different boat now than the Supra?

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12 hours ago, hethj7 said:

You don't have a lease or title agreement with the property that show the terms of your slip and position?  That seems very odd.   Heck I even have to sign a yearly lease agreement with the marina I have my slip at, so if I owned property with a slip, I would think it would define those terms as well.  

 

Put the guy that wants 12' on the end....is that not a possibility?  Not sure why others should have to be put out to accommodate him.  

No my house isn't associated with the slip. It's completely separate. It's not an HOA it's an association that I can pay into if I want, or not. So it gives me access to the private launch, the beach, all the amenities thereof and a slip for an extra fee. There is nothing in writing EXCEPT for on my bill as to what slip I have. 

12 hours ago, hethj7 said:

Oh, and I'd request the HOA to send me a letter stating I need to move vs. just some guy knocking on my door and telling me.  I'm not usually one to cause much of a stir over things, but in this case, my first inclination would not be "well, shucks, random dude at my door says it shall be this way, so I guess I'll go figure it out".    

I go to pay my bill tonight, the treasurer has been out of town. Said he'd be home today. I'll inquire with him, see what he says. This guy who showed up is the new coordinator for the slips. Our addresses aren't pinned to the slip number or anything like that. So you'd have to have access to the list to know. 

 

12 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

These lifts are on the cheap, if you can swing it.  Right in your neighborhood and WAY less than $3 to $4k.

 

12 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

Wait - you have a different boat now than the Supra?

I saw those hoists. First one is gone already! lol 
Yeah I'm getting a 2010 23LSV whenever the dealer gets off their a$$ and finishes the stuff they need to. WHOLE different story for a whole other thread. 
So technically those hoists don't have the capacity. 
I saw that cantilever one, I've used those before with my supra, not sure I'd want one for a heavier boat.... I don't know. Also I don't have 120AC access. 
 

 

12 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

Does the new unprotected spot also mean a less obstructed view of the lake?

Yes most definitely.... but what are you getting at with it? We don't really sit on the boat in "harbor". 

Edited by Ryan1776
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38 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

I saw those hoists. First one is gone already! lol 
Yeah I'm getting a 2010 23LSV whenever the dealer gets off their a$$ and finishes the stuff they need to. WHOLE different story for a whole other thread. 
So technically those hoists don't have the capacity. 
I saw that cantilever one, I've used those before with my supra, not sure I'd want one for a heavier boat.... I don't know. Also I don't have 120AC access. 
 

 

Yes most definitely.... but what are you getting at with it? We don't really sit on the boat in "harbor". 

Ah, a 23LSV is a different animal, different lift needed.  Nevermind, that will probably be more like $3k, like you said.

That's what I was getting at, sitting on the boat in harbor.  We've done that at our slip, it was pretty nice sometimes.  But we had a lift there too.  If you had the boat on a lift it might feel more inviting, but that might just be me.  If you are unable to get a lift I would be just as concerned as you with the extra wave action.  In fact, you could use that argument with the slip guy - the boat on the lift should be in the place with the most wave action because it's out of the water, and you should stay in your spot because your moored boat will get rocked around.

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4 minutes ago, Michigan boarder said:

Ah, a 23LSV is a different animal, different lift needed.  Nevermind, that will probably be more like $3k, like you said.

That's what I was getting at, sitting on the boat in harbor.  We've done that at our slip, it was pretty nice sometimes.  But we had a lift there too.  If you had the boat on a lift it might feel more inviting, but that might just be me.  If you are unable to get a lift I would be just as concerned as you with the extra wave action.  In fact, you could use that argument with the slip guy - the boat on the lift should be in the place with the most wave action because it's out of the water, and you should stay in your spot because your moored boat will get rocked around.

Yeah sorry! I realize I haven't updated my profile yet. Mostly because I don't have it yet! 

It's not really about being more or less inviting. If we're on the boat, we'd rather be on the water. 
This guy could care less about my situation. Like I said I'll see what the treasurer says tonight. My bet is, I'm SOL. 
But I like the previous guys statement on requesting a formal letter as to why I'm being moved. 

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