Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Slalom Binder Placement


justgary

Recommended Posts

So I have finally found a set of very gently used Radar Vapor boots to replace my old rubber binders.  Of course, the hole patterns on the plates are completely different, so I have the option of mounting the boots wherever I want on the ski.  I have read a few web sites that give some really good suggestions, but I just can't get the drill out until I ask the crew about it.

What say ye, crew?  How do I place the new boots on my old ski so that it will perform similarly?  Note:  I harbor no desire for competition, and I'm really not even very good, but I want a ski that will let me dabble when I get invited to the course.  They don't like it when I just want to barefoot....

Regards,

- Just Gary

Link to comment

What kind of ski?  Typically they have a factory measurement for where the back of the front boot should be optimally.  Otherwise, no big deal to drill some new holes and insert some inserts into the ski - just use some epoxy when you do it.

Link to comment

@justgary:  You have a few options, one as @oldjeep noted is to put some holes in the ski, no big deal, a good brass insert and some JB Weld will provide a sound installation, and yes, as @ahopkinsTXi noted, I have done that a few times, he must have noticed my ski at some point.  You can also add some holes to either your Vapor plates or even install the rubber binding plate to the Vapor.  Another option is to get a G-10 plate where you will mount both bindings and then mount that to the ski.  Doing that allows an infinite amount of variation.  Binding placement is very important, so make sure you set up your ski to allow moving fore aft to dial in how it feels.  Good information available on effects of binding position via websearch that will make your skiing more fun.

My suggestion on position would be to put the front ankle at the same location for both bindings but prior to that, I would look at how much angulation the old and new bindings have and make sure you position the binding so that you can move the new one to where your knee joint would be close.  As noted, the ski manufacturer should have information on how far from the tail of the ski the rear of the binding should be mounted, their website should help.  As an example, you tend to mount hard shell bindings farther back compared to rubber, so depending on fore-aft stiffness and angulation, that could change your final ideal position. 

What ski are you mounting the bindings to and how long?

https://www.finwhispering.com/adjusting-water-ski-binding-setup/

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/12916/are-your-bindings-is-the-right-place-an-experiment/p1

http://www.goode.com/images/wstm050811rev001.pdf

Link to comment

It's a ~1987 65" Connelly Shortline 2.  This ski has always felt right for me.  Maybe it's because this is the first decent ski I used more than once, but I have always liked it.  I bought it new with the original Connelly boots factory installed (you know, how skis used to get sold).  Like I said, I have always liked the ski, but the binders have always been too narrow and my feet hurt after two passes.  I'm not sure if I can post pictures here anymore, but maybe I will try later.

I had not considered drilling the new plates to match the ski.  I'll think about that one.  My plan so far is to plug the old holes with epoxy and plastic dowels, then drill the ski and install brass thread inserts into the new holes.

But I'm not as concerned with the actual mounting as *where* to mount them.  Like I said, I read a few web pages and have an idea of how I would like to do it, but I mostly wanted to spook up a discussion here to see if anyone has an extra nugget of information I can use.  Things like front binder rotation don't seem to get discussed much at all, and intuitively seem like a good idea.  The ski at this point is literally a blank slate I can work with.  I don't want more than one new set of holes, though, so I'm OK with thinking before I drill.  Besides, the water is still under 70*F here, so I still have time (a little dig at you guys from the north)....

@Woodski, I'll read all of your references tonight to see if I missed something. I had read about matching the ankle bone, but had not considered where the knees end up, and that may be more important. Thanks!

Regards,

- Just Gary

  • Like 1
Link to comment
1 hour ago, John I. said:

Two hours and no one has suggested a newer ski. I am a little disappointed with the Crew's efforts to spend Just Gary's money.     ;)

Even if you are just an occasional course skier, consider demo-ing some new gear! Last year I upgraded from a mid 1990's ski and had 3 new PB's within 2 weeks, AND it is a much less physically demanding ski so I ski longer and hurt shorter :) 

Link to comment

I upgraded from my mid-90's Duval to a new Radar Senate last year.  Game changer... I know your old ski "feels right"; so did mine... but man my new ski is SO much bettter!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
8 hours ago, John I. said:

Two hours and no one has suggested a newer ski. I am a little disappointed with the Crew's efforts to spend Just Gary's money.     ;)

Ha!  We already spent my money on the boots, remember?

Link to comment

I tried a recent model Radar Theory two years ago.  I think it was a little long for me, and I noticed that it consistently over turned.  I wasn't able to mess with boot placement.  I'm not opposed to a new ski, I'm just not convinced that I'll ever ski any better than I do now....

- Just Gary

Link to comment
2 hours ago, justgary said:

I tried a recent model Radar Theory two years ago.  I think it was a little long for me, and I noticed that it consistently over turned.  I wasn't able to mess with boot placement.  I'm not opposed to a new ski, I'm just not convinced that I'll ever ski any better than I do now....

- Just Gary

I would be willing to bet you a slalom tug that given the right ski, you will ski worlds better with less effort!

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Rednucleus said:

I would be willing to bet you a slalom tug that given the right ski, you will ski worlds better with less effort!

That just may be, but nobody has given me the right ski....

Link to comment

@justgary:  Binding placement and orientation is key to dialing in your ski.  Yes, to your question, there are discussions on various websites that dig in to the pros / cons to binding placement, BOS (ball of spray) is a good resource, Schnitzski also digs in to the topic and as previously noted, Fin Whispering covers the topic. 

For my best performance, I do rotate the rear binding, toe out or counterclockwise as a RFF skier.  I also cant (use snow ski terminology so inside edge raised on ski or in car speak I add camber) the front binding to even out the onside and offside turns.  My boots are also not exactly as delivered, I add some stiffeners for additional lateral stiffness and toe stiffness to the rear one.  I don't rotate the front binding and it is centered on the ski. Also, make sure the attachments don't change to ski flex (unless you want to stiffen that part), so the front and rear screws may need some spacer / slider washers to allow fore / aft movement when the ski flexes.

To your comment on right ski, absolutely there is a correlation to ski behavior to how happy you are on it.  My experience is that skis tend to fall in to two category's and I only like one of them.  My grouping is ones that flow and tend to keep momentum v. ones that tend to stop or stall at the apex of the buoy or turn.  Both work it is just which suits your particular ski style.  Caveat - that is just my experience I am sure others have their own so take it with a grain of salt.  My take away, if I am looking at dropping my $ on a ski, I am going to try it first and every company tends to offer a demo program. 

Link to comment

New ski.  Done.  I can't stress this enough.  I highly recommend the Radar Senate for a great mid-level forgiving ski, that will work well in and out of the course for you.  FWIW, last year I pulled out my 1986 HO Mach 1, which I absolutely loved (until I replaced it, in the late 90's that is) and screwed my hard-shells to it to give it a whirl for craps and giggles.  I figured I could run into 32 off with it, albeit with some work.  NOPE!  It was brutal.  I could barely get into 28', and I ski mid 38'.  Trust me, and others above that have made this suggestion to try a new ski, as you will be happy that you did.

Regarding boot placement, you need to be able to adjust fore-aft movement going forward, because every binding skis a little different.  You might get on it with the new boots and find that your tip is biting too hard, or you are riding the tail too much.  As Woodski mentioned above, the front binding should be straight and centered on the ski.  The rear can be pivoted a bit, depending on taste.  However, the more you pivot the binding out, the more you will negatively affect your offside turn.  That being said, there is a happy medium there, just don't overdue it.  Woodski also mentions 2 "styles" of skis, which is true, but is mainly applicable to the top level competition skis, like the HO Syndicate, Radar Vapor, and D3 Arc( my personal favorite), for example.  The Mid-level skis like the Senate will mostly fall in the middle and offer both a smooth, predictable turn, as well a softer flex which offers added forgiveness.  

Edited by Brodie
Link to comment
46 minutes ago, Brodie said:

New ski.  Done.  I can't stress this enough.  I highly recommend the Radar Senate for a great mid-level forgiving ski, that will work well in and out of the course for you.  FWIW, last year I pulled out my 1986 HO Mach 1, which I absolutely loved (until I replaced it, in the late 90's that is) and screwed my hard-shells to it to give it a whirl for craps and giggles.  I figured I could run into 32 off with it, albeit with some work.  NOPE!  It was brutal.  I could barely get into 28', and I ski mid 38'.  Trust me, and others above that have made this suggestion to try a new ski, as you will be happy that you did.  

LOL did the same thing after using my HO Superlite a month. Pulled my old reliable 90's era VTX out and promptly crashed at 1 ball. Back in the garage as an ornament now,  HO has a good demo program. Check out the two OMNI models now available. Bet you will be liking one of them!  

Link to comment
31 minutes ago, Rednucleus said:

LOL did the same thing after using my HO Superlite a month. Pulled my old reliable 90's era VTX out and promptly crashed at 1 ball. Back in the garage as an ornament now,  HO has a good demo program. Check out the two OMNI models now available. Bet you will be liking one of them!  

Yes, I should have added that I crashed on my first 2 opening passes..... The first time on my turn-in for the gate, and the second rounding 2 ball.  My ski partners had a good laugh that day.  Free ski set would have probably been a good idea, but I hate to waste the energy.  :rockon:

Edited by Brodie
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...