2018 stereo questions

[Brett B]

15 hours ago, IXFE said:

Nice work, Brett. I may have to attempt that USB plug update, but it won’t be as easy on the new 23 since I can’t follow the same path. How well does it charge now?

As for the new WS factory stereo... I cringe a little every time I read these disappointing reviews. Lots and lots of reports about noise, Bluetooth malfunctions, and weak sub performance. What’s worse.. you can’t just peel off a sticker and tune the amp yourself. Am I the only one who remembers all the fanfare and back slapping that went on 18 months ago when this system was introduced...??

Makes me kinda frustrated with myself that I believed the hype and bet on yet another factory Malibu system.

Charging was good to go, kept my phone at 100%. Although I have an iPhone SE, not sure if some of the big phones that pull lots of power would have issues.

[Fman]

Am I the only one still a fan of the stereo delete box?  Give me an old school eq, ability to tune, pick my own components, and do it myself.  If it doesn't sound good it's all on me.  This isn't for everyone but having options are nice and being able to tune a system to your taste even better imo.

Shame on Malibu if they are detuning these systems to not perform at the maximum potential.  For what they are charging buyers it should be rocking the house with a "wow" factor.

That being said the soundpack 3 in the new A24 I heard did sound very good to me.  Hopefully this result is across the entire Malibu lineup as well.

 

[Brett B]

Thanks for the background MLA. I had the boat on the water and even with auto volume the sub was significantly weaker than my old 2012 factory installed Rockford stereo. But by your numbers it should sound superior. So how do I make my sub sound decent? Because right now it's weak enough that I should have just left it off the option list. I asked my dealer, they have no ability to tune the system.

 

Here is why I am confused. On my build sheet it says:

Sound System - Wake VLX pack $4,657.00

Subwoofer - 12 inch subwoofer (w/amp) $933.00

 

So I don't in fact get a separate amp for the 12" sub, and this level of sub performance is considered acceptable?

I'm not expecting earth shaking performance by any means. For comparison I have a 10+ year old Aura 10" sub in a small sealed box with an equally old 2-channel Eclipse amp in my car. I could set that under the clamshell and it would blow away the WS 12" sub performance.

 

[COOP]

That sub is probably not in a box. Get it into an enclosure and it will sound alot better.

[minnmarker]

27 minutes ago, Brett B said:

Here is why I am confused. On my build sheet it says:

Sound System - Wake VLX pack $4,657.00

Subwoofer - 12 inch subwoofer (w/amp) $933.00

For less than that kind of money you could get an aftermarket system professionally installed that you could tune (have tuned) to your liking!

I've got 500W (real RMS at 14.4V etc.) to a 12" sealed sub, 100W (again real) to each cabin speaker (single or parallel pair) and 300W (once again real) to each of 2 surf speakers, and quality marine speakers all around, and I doubt if I have $2500 invested total.  The gains are set to protect the speakers but it sounds great and is capable of more un-distorted volume than I would ever use.

[Brett B]

52 minutes ago, COOP said:

That sub is probably not in a box. Get it into an enclosure and it will sound alot better.

It is in a sealed box from the factory.

[COOP]

Ah. then it will be in one of the cheap plastic boxes. Have a nice 3/4" marine MDF box built for it. I would also look at the crossover and gain settings on the amp.

[Brett B]

33 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

For less than that kind of money you could get an aftermarket system professionally installed that you could tune (have tuned) to your liking!

I've got 500W (real RMS at 14.4V etc.) to a 12" sealed sub, 100W (again real) to each cabin speaker (single or parallel pair) and 300W (once again real) to each of 2 surf speakers, and quality marine speakers all around, and I doubt if I have $2500 invested total.  The gains are set to protect the speakers but it sounds great and is capable of more un-distorted volume than I would ever use.

You are right, but I read all of the good reviews in this thread and decided to go for it. I should say that the in-boat speakers do sound good, better than my 2012 factory stereo. And my Exile XM9's do also sound good being run off of the factory Wetsounds tower speaker amp. It's just the sub that is noticeably weak with no way to tune it or adjust it.

 

 

Other reasons I went with the factory stereo:

Covered by the factory 5-year warranty

Integrated with factory touch screen and sport knob controls

I don't have several weeks of waiting on a stereo shop to install the stereo after I take delivery, the boat is ready to go when I get it from my dealer

I don't have to worry about a stereo shop scratching/cutting/damaging something on the boats finish when they tear it apart for the install

I don't have a local trusted stereo shop that I would use anyway

[Brett B]

4 minutes ago, COOP said:

Ah. then it will be in one of the cheap plastic boxes. Have a nice 3/4" marine MDF box built for it. I would also look at the crossover and gain settings on the amp.

The new wetsounds digital amps are not adjustable/tunable by dealers or end users, it must be done by the factory, that is the problem.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Brett B

[teamerickson]

14 minutes ago, Brett B said:

The new wetsounds digital amps are not adjustable/tunable by dealers or end users, it must be done by the factory, that is the problem.

That is not accurate. Wetsounds, and other dealers,  have done it. @ConnollyCrew

It requires a lot of effort, but can be done. 

[COOP]

1 hour ago, Brett B said:

The new wetsounds digital amps are not adjustable/tunable by dealers or end users, it must be done by the factory, that is the problem.

Ah, I didnt read the whole thread, didnt see what year the boat was.

[COOP]

44 minutes ago, teamerickson said:

That is not accurate. Wetsounds, and other dealers,  have done it. @ConnollyCrew

It requires a lot of effort, but can be done. 

The amps are tuned per boat, VLX, MXZ, etc. I have had extensive talks with wetsounds and they will not change gains, eq, or cross over settings, nor will they let us have the soft ware to do it ourselves. I would love to know who or what dealer to speak that actually changed the gains/eq/x-over settings.

[MLA]

2 hours ago, Brett B said:

Thanks for the background MLA. I had the boat on the water and even with auto volume the sub was significantly weaker than my old 2012 factory installed Rockford stereo. But by your numbers it should sound superior. So how do I make my sub sound decent? Because right now it's weak enough that I should have just left it off the option list. I asked my dealer, they have no ability to tune the system.

 

Here is why I am confused. On my build sheet it says:

Sound System - Wake VLX pack $4,657.00

Subwoofer - 12 inch subwoofer (w/amp) $933.00

 

So I don't in fact get a separate amp for the 12" sub, and this level of sub performance is considered acceptable?

I'm not expecting earth shaking performance by any means. For comparison I have a 10+ year old Aura 10" sub in a small sealed box with an equally old 2-channel Eclipse amp in my car. I could set that under the clamshell and it would blow away the WS 12" sub performance.

 

My understanding is that the audio package without the woofer, gets a 4 chnl amp to just drive the in-boats. So adding a woofer to the options list, get you a different amp, one with 2 additional channels specifically for the woofer. That price I would imagine, reflect the cost difference of the 4 chnl and the 6 chnl + woofer, enclosure, etc. 

I have not spent enough time with the new Medallion black box, so see what might be in there thats related to the woofer chnl. I dont know if its a full range output, I dont know what its voltage rms is, I dont know if the output level is adjustable. I do have a feeling that the "Bass" level you maxed out, is not impacting the woofer chnl. So far, the Medallion BB is not lifting up my skirt so to speak.

The previous woofer setup was in such a small enclosure that is was one-note-wonder. Very limited range and a sharp roll off. This would make iv very "punchy" over a very narrow band width. This can be perceived as a woofer that "hits hard". But they lack depth and are typically not musical or the full range of what a woofer should deliver.   

[MLA]

4 hours ago, IXFE said:

I see that you were very careful to use words like "up to" and "potential" when describing the power these boats are putting out.  Is that your way of acknowledging the factory amp is set up in a way that doesn't achieve anywhere near that?  I'm honestly asking.    

While those may be the specs of the factory amp, we really have no idea what they are actually putting out because we have no idea how Malibu tuned them at the factory.  Likely it's nowhere near what you posted.  

As far as being able to be tuned... yes, I am aware that it's possible, but only if you find a shop that has the equipment (i.e. likely not your local Malibu dealer).  That's more time and money.  Plus, I'm sure the average Malibu owner has no idea how or where to get that done.  The only reason I know was through some local referrals.  Regardless, I think it's sad that Malibu charges over $11K for this system (cabins + sub + Rev10's) and then cripples it to the point you have to find a shop and pay them to wake it up.  

Here is another benefit over the previous setup. The old setup had a 4 chnl amp with aa 4 chnls at 2 ohm load, thats basically pedal to the metal for that amp, only to get 50W rms for a speaker that could handle 100W rms (6.5) or an easy 150 (8"). Thats absolutely zero head room. Same with the woofer. We are maxing out the 2 chnl amp, only to just reach the woofer's suggested RMS. Again, zero head room. Regardless of how these amps are tuned, there is now some head room built in. 

[teamerickson]

47 minutes ago, COOP said:

The amps are tuned per boat, VLX, MXZ, etc. I have had extensive talks with wetsounds and they will not change gains, eq, or cross over settings, nor will they let us have the soft ware to do it ourselves. I would love to know who or what dealer to speak that actually changed the gains/eq/x-over settings.

There are other examples. I'll see if I can find others.

Edited April 24, 2018 by teamerickson

[COOP]

Correct. But they did not re-gain or change eq or x-over settings. The dongle that plugs into the amp can be used to change tower speaker settings (REV or ICON) or actual boat settings. It is a pre-programmed dongle, no way to change the gain/eq/x-over settings on your own. The actual software that sets all the gain and dsp/x-over/time delay settings is run on a laptop. Probably a very similar program to the one that Audio Control uses or Rockford for their DSP units.

Edited April 24, 2018 by COOP

[MLA]

3 minutes ago, COOP said:

It is a pre-programmed dongle, no way to change the gain/eq/x-over settings on your own.

The point being made is, you would not want to obtain the malibu pre-programmed dongle. You would do your own custom tune and change what ever you wanted. So if one wanted to push the drivers to their potential, then up the dB. If you want to re-purpose an amp, then you would have to change the entire profile. If you wanted to add a 2nd pair of tower speaker, then the gain should be reset. 

I think the hang up might be that as the end user/owner, you have to completely separate yourself from the audio supplier and boat manufacturer. Once you do this, they are your amps to do with as you please and any private party with tools and equipment can tune those amps to suite your build.  

[SCMike]

On 4/24/2018 at 8:45 AM, Brett B said:

Thanks for the background MLA. I had the boat on the water and even with auto volume the sub was significantly weaker than my old 2012 factory installed Rockford stereo. But by your numbers it should sound superior. So how do I make my sub sound decent? Because right now it's weak enough that I should have just left it off the option list. I asked my dealer, they have no ability to tune the system.

 

Here is why I am confused. On my build sheet it says:

Sound System - Wake VLX pack $4,657.00

Subwoofer - 12 inch subwoofer (w/amp) $933.00

 

So I don't in fact get a separate amp for the 12" sub, and this level of sub performance is considered acceptable?

I'm not expecting earth shaking performance by any means. For comparison I have a 10+ year old Aura 10" sub in a small sealed box with an equally old 2-channel Eclipse amp in my car. I could set that under the clamshell and it would blow away the WS 12" sub performance.

 

I noticed my boat had very weak sub performance as well.  I went into the eq, and turned the bass all the way up and even turned the sub volume to the max.   Still sounded non existent.  I then noticed a switch in the 7 inch screen to turn the sub on and off.  Mine happened to get turned off for some reason.  Once I turned it on the system hit HARD!  I’m very pleased with the sound the stock system makes.  Can’t wait to get my rev 10s installed next week it’s gonna be more then enough for me.

[Brett B]

I played with the stereo on the water a bit more this weekend. I discovered that my boat does have the low volume Bluetooth cutout problems that many were discussing in that 2017 thread. What was the fix for that? It seems to be much less noticeable with the USB connection so I will probably just avoid Bluetooth for now.

I also read this post in the 2017 stereo thread from Simon at Wetsounds again:

"The guys replying in this thread are a little more cautious of sound and have self control but we have to keep in mind of what most people do when out on the water.  I've seen it hundreds of times when a couple of drinks go down then the volume goes to max if it wasn't already.  Because we optimized for max phone volume you shouldn't see any significant distortion since we use a wide range of music genres when tuning them.

With the new OEM system from Malibu you are able to max the stereo volume through the Viper screen and also max your phone volume out.  We worked with Medallion to ensure volume limits were set in place to where the headunit will not distort.

Crank it up all the way and enjoy!"

 

From this post it looks like all the gains are set to keep the system healthy when the average knucklehead cranks everything up to max volume. Ok, I get it. So to get the sub to have decent sound I have to increase the "bass" setting all the way up to 7, turn the sub "gain" on the viper screen all the way up to 15, and then crank the interior speakers volume up to at least 25 on the mixer screen. Then the sub does sound pretty good. 

The problem with this is that 1) I don't want to run the main interior speakers that loud just to hear some bass (I didn't have to do this to get my 2012 stereo to sound good) and 2) Now the tower speakers appear to have too much bass as there is no way to independently manage their crossover/filter with the single point "treble" and "bass" settings on the viper screen. With the "bass" setting at 3, and the sub "gain" at 15 the tower speakers are good but the sub is weak again even with the interior volume cranked. Hmmm.

So I keep seeing people on here say that dealers can tune these amps. Well my dealer cannot tune the amps, and when they asked Malibu about it Malibu stated that the amps were all tuned at the factory only. So since I've been told on here that this isn't correct, I would love it if somebody could provide me the contact information for a local dealer that CAN actually tune the system.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Brett B

[COOP]

No dealer can tune the amps. There are a few dealers who have a dongle and are able to use whatever pretuned setting is on the dongle (which may include an update for the noise gate causing low volume drop out). But no one has actually changed gains, dsp, or x-over settings. I have had several conversations with Simon and wet sounds, they will not give up up the software to do this. I see the reasoning behind this. But it still kinda sucks. Its the same as asking GM to change all the factory gain setting in a Denali to make it louder, not gonna happen.

 

And to clarify, some dealers are reflashing the amps. NOT tuning them. Big difference.

And if there is a dealer who IS actually using the Wet Sounds software (not a dongle) to tune these amps please pm me who, as I would like to get the software and want to know how they obtained it.

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by COOP

[teamerickson]

@Brett B There may be a fix for the low volume cutout. This is from another member who was having the same issue. 

“I've got a few updates on my end... 

First, my dealer and Wetsounds has confirmed that the issue is an internal noise gate on the dsp amps which is meant to remove unwanted interference.  They are reprogramming my amps right now with a new Wetsounds update so I should be able to let you all know if it works in the next few weeks.  Wetsounds did confirm that this reprogramming comes from Malibu and will be done by their dealers.

Second, I did give in and replaced the stock amps with the normal (non-dsp) Wetsounds amp.  The difference is incredible!  The Malibu tuning on these things really takes away from their potential.  Once I get them fixed (had to put them back in the Bu) I will be selling the stock system or repurposing for another application.”

I agree the bass is not loud enough at low volume. Kind of disappointing. I wish the built in zone controller did a better job with this. 

Have you contacted a wetsounds dealer near you? They may be able to adjust your tune? It would probably void the warranty. 

For the most part I like the factory system. It has some limitations and qwerks. It definitely is better then the old systems and is a step in the right direction. It works for 99% of the folks.  

[COOP]

45 minutes ago, teamerickson said:

 

Have you contacted a wetsounds dealer near you? They may be able to adjust your tune? It would probably void the warranty. 

 

Not possible unless they have the actual software from wet sounds, which no one has except wet sounds. Even a wet sounds dealer cant get this (we are a dealer). Its considered OEM. And they wont tune outside of the factory parameters. But yes, IF you could get your hands on the software and changed the tuning, your warranty would be void.

Edited April 30, 2018 by COOP

[IXFE]

@MLA says you can absolutely tune these amps if you just know where to go but declines telling us where. 

@COOP is a Wetsounds dealer and says he absolutely cannot tune the amp. Nobody can. 

Which is it gentlemen?

 

[IXFE]

So I spent several hours in my new 23 LSV this past weekend listening to the stereo. I was installing my Gatorstep and just poking around (not on the water, no engine running). iPhone was connected via Bluetooth  

My observations:

1) Mute button doesn’t work. Neither pushing the Sport Knob nor the soft button on the 7” screen will mute the music.  Bummer cuz we use the mute button a lot (ie rider goes down, mute or pause until back up).

2) Sub is a little on the weak side, as others have reported. But that’s not my only beef... the bass is dull and muffled.  Whoever called it “musical” made me laugh. Ummm, no.

3) There is a persistent clicking noise. During a song it’s not as noticeable (but definitely there). Between songs it’s clearly audible. So far this only seems to happen when the battery is plugged in.  

I can’t help but wonder if the answer to this riddle isn’t to just rip out the factory Wetsounds amp and replace it with ___________.  I may do just that with a Javeline.  Seems much easier than running around in search of the mystery stereo guy who can hack into the factory amp (if such a person even exists).

More to come...

[cowwboy]

On 4/30/2018 at 12:48 PM, COOP said:

Not possible unless they have the actual software from wet sounds, which no one has except wet sounds. Even a wet sounds dealer cant get this (we are a dealer). Its considered OEM. And they wont tune outside of the factory parameters. But yes, IF you could get your hands on the software and changed the tuning, your warranty would be void.

That is crazy, I remember Tim saying in a post on Wakeworld that they would have limited dealers that would have the DSP software. 
I kind of understand their warranty issue of not allowing general public have it but not allowing any of their dealers have it is crazy.