Board, fin configuration questions

[granddaddy55]

Also if she can skate long line , it’s the best if both worlds ,after she learns an easy up on the wakeboard.  no bindings to slam , but same sort of lean back like wakeboarding , when she surfs she has to convert to leaning forwards but she already has three no bindings and a rope

the get up is much easier on a surfboard as you can literally stand on it with slightly bent knees as soon as the rope is taught, can’t do that wakeboard or skate as easily but basically you can but not just instantaneously when rope goes taught

[JeffC]

I wish I had seen this thread when it started... 

I started last year with a Hyperlite Broadcast... great first board, and one that I will keep around for a long time as the "boat board".   But as last season wound up, I was getting bored with it.   Taking the outside fins off helped... running with ONLY the outer fins it was pretty squirrely, so our crew kind of settled on riding it with just the center fin.   We still were not able to hold the wave coming out of a 360, so I have been thinking all winter that I needed a new board.

This week I found a 2017 Phase Five model X at a decent price, so I sprung for it (58").  I am 5'11" and unfortunately, 230 right now (I WILL lose 20 of that this summer).  Im hoping that I find the model X more challenging, and a LOT more fun.   It will be here Monday, so hoping that by the following weekend the water will be warm enough to give it a go. 

What fin configuration would you use for the first time out on it?

 

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, JeffC said:

I wish I had seen this thread when it started... 

I started last year with a Hyperlite Broadcast... great first board, and one that I will keep around for a long time as the "boat board".   But as last season wound up, I was getting bored with it.   Taking the outside fins off helped... running with ONLY the outer fins it was pretty squirrely, so our crew kind of settled on riding it with just the center fin.   We still were not able to hold the wave coming out of a 360, so I have been thinking all winter that I needed a new board.

This week I found a 2017 Phase Five model X at a decent price, so I sprung for it (58").  I am 5'11" and unfortunately, 230 right now (I WILL lose 20 of that this summer).  Im hoping that I find the model X more challenging, and a LOT more fun.   It will be here Monday, so hoping that by the following weekend the water will be warm enough to give it a go. 

What fin configuration would you use for the first time out on it?

 

Start with all 3 fins. Remove the center to loosen it up if need be. For more of a skimmy feel run just the center fin.

Nick

[Shastasurf]

On 3/20/2018 at 7:52 PM, bovhica said:

I've only been surfing for one season.  I'm a bigger guy. 5'11 290.  I started on an IS Red Rocket (impulse buy.)  It is a good board for a fat guy to learn on, but i got board quickly after a few sessions.  I purchased upgraded fins for it and tried different configurations, but ultimately couldn't find the ride I wanted.  I decided to try a skim style board late last season in the P5 Model X 58".  I guess it's more of a hybrid with the 2" 3 fin thruster configuration, but i really enjoyed progressing on the board and loved the feel and ride.  I felt more comfortable using the edges, so I guess the skim/hybrid type suits me the best.  I haven't tried other fin configurations yet but am looking forward to doing so.  Only negative was I think I have a bit too much weight for the Model X and have to really get forward on the board with my stance to lengthen the sweet spot.  It also seemed to really dig down into the water with my weight on it and pearling is a problem if I get too aggressive. Best solution would be to loose weight, obviously, but in the meantime,  I purchased a Phase 5 Trident this year with the thought it will be a better fit for my weight and help me advance with a similar feel to the X, until I can get those lbs. off.   It only came with a single 1" fin, but i have the model x fins to experiment with if I don't like it as is.  What fin configuration would you all recommend for me as I attempt to be more aggressive this season and progress as a rider?  Maybe try to pull a 3, if that's even possible at my size?

I have a 2011 V-Ride 21, 600 up front, 500 in ski locker, 750s in rear, wake shaper and floating wedge.  I adjust depending on passengers, but have plenty of options for a wake that will push me.  Usually need it pretty steep but with the weight up front can actually get the length if the wave relatively long for what we are working with.  I usually surf at 10.2 to 10.6 mph depending on conditions.  Any faster and I really can't stay on the wave.  Any suggestions or observations about our setup that I need to change?

 

 

I’ve seen big dudes surf small boards so I’m not convinced it’s a weight issue.  I think every board is fun in a different way, just takes time to adjust and figure out what it does best.   As far as fin set ups it really depends on placement.  If a twin fin setup has the fins really far back it will perform similar to a 3 fin thruster.  Fins give the board tracking and drive.  I like a quad fin set up with lil nubby back fins as it gives great drive but still loose enough for spins.  The quad fin set up usually gives u the ability to use set up as a twin fin with the front fins being far enough forward the board is still loose enough for spins, and you get less drag than thruster. I also prefer a surf style board with lots of rocker, which really slows it down but helps prevent pearling.   I do notice with novice surfers lots of rocker is too slow for them because they haven’t learned to generate speed from the wave or control the momentum.   Also with pearling if you try and ride too far out the bottom of the wave it’s like hitting an uphill, try to make a quicker bottom turn and you may pearl less staying on the face of wave.  The trade off of rocker is speed so when learning the flatter boards just accelerate with subtle forward weight adjustment.  I also love how a quad surf style board has drive, it isn’t loose and slippery when u want to generate speed turning down the wave.  Got to pump the board and be active and work it to  compensate for added rocker.  The skim style boards too loose for me to get drive, the board wants to spin and butter, when wave or water isn’t perfect. I think it’s best to have a quiver anyway, can’t have too many boards.  I have come to expect to have a board in repair, so more is better, lol.  It’s nice to have multiple brands too.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Shastasurf

[shawndoggy]

having a hard time pumping on a skim board vs a surf-style board with big fins is (IMHO) partially a technique thing.  Of course, all things being equal, you can pump a surf-style board harder than a skim board because of the big fins.  However, skim boards can definitely be pumped -- but you have to have your weight "stacked" appropriately over the rail, and if you don't it will be harder to generate speed.  If you get good at pumping a skim it will make you better at pumping a surf style board too, because those same body mechanics still apply even though it's easier to hide behind poorer pumping technique on a surf-style board.

I very much enjoy switching between surf and skim because both expose different deficits in my riding.

[granddaddy55]

+1 @Shastasurf

The Wolfe sisters called me a lazy surfer , no hard work or pumping , using leans and foot shuffle ( luv that move) to recover all of the time leaving pumping to recover deeply lacking when far back losing wave, now I never loose a wave, but doing  as @shawndoggyhas said about lengthening your wave(I use heavy listing and snd big bow weight) I can recover from anything because I pump better and longer wave setup 

those kids and Wolfman were not rude to say lazy but they got their point across 

I love surf style but now that I have upped my activity to generate speed and direction I am no longer a lazy surfer

snd we never talk style ever on this forum, backside style , front side style

my wife does really nice toe side Board slides for a while now but last weekend she upped that to include a much longer stall while sliding and doing it atop the wave sliding all the way to back of wave, letting it “fall” off the shelf and work her way around the curl snd recover with one big pump and lean , the way she let the board just slide back down the face in no hurry was sick!!

LETS START TALKING STYLE

Alot of people are quite mechanical yet brilliant in their surfing. 

 I’ve seen some of the competitors looking like ballerinas like that big dude wake surfer from California who competed in 16’ and worlds coming off knee surgery but not as much in 17.  He is a ballerina and it looks really fluid 

many of the upper surfers have style do to tge connectivity and flow of back to back tricks

then there’s us!!! And we never talk style just 360’s and airs

i personally surf the foam ball hovering and not going back very near boat Board sliding the board and getting to other side of foam/wave almost as a transfer over and back, as my unique style along  with stalled out totally *ss to boat blind Board slides 

whats yours

Edited May 4, 2018 by granddaddy55

[Shastasurf]

Yes u can definitely pump a skim, but it will never have the same drive.  I too, enjoy switching between the 2 styles,  but there’s no substitute for fins.  

[Brett B]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 2:51 AM, bovhica said:

Thanks for the advice, Nick.  I will definitely start her on the broadcast first.  I may have to make the chaos a future purchase as I do like to ride surf style to change it up now and then.  Unfortunately I soon realize how boring the RR is and quickly ask for 1 of the Phase 5s.   The CEO has put a stop on board purchases for the year, but maybe next year?.....fingers crossed.

Update:  Today was our second day out on the lake.  Air temp was 82, Water temp a cool 61.  Tolerable with a spring suit, but my wife wasn't interested in getting wet until it gets warmer.

I got a chance to experiment with both the model X and Trident.  I rode both with 2 fins and then both with singles.  Both handled similarly with 2 fins but I actually preferred the X over the Trident?  The Trident was fast and stable where the X wasn't quite as fast but was more responsive and playful.  I then set up the X with a single, It was a little slow and I struggled to stay in the pocket. I liked how it handled but I couldn't be very aggressive without losing the wave.  I soon asked the wife to throw me the Trident with a single, and I immediately fell in love.  Not sure why such a difference, but it was an incredible ride!  Fast, playful, responsive.  I could ride aggressively and stay on the wave. I was even able to attempt a 360 with confidence.  I was so confident that the 360 actually turned into a 450 from over rotating...lol.  At that point I was spent and the sun was setting.  Hope to get it next time! Can't wait!

Thanks to all for the advice and shared knowledge!  Great people here!

 

Can you share some more of your experience comparing the Model X to the Trident? Is it noticeably faster than the Model X? I really like the feel and responsive of the Model X but I think I am on the upper weight limit as it loses the pocket pretty easily and I can't recover. I've been thinking about upgrading to the Trident but not sure how much faster it really is based on the measurements.

 

[bovhica]

On 6/15/2018 at 12:10 PM, Brett B said:

 

Can you share some more of your experience comparing the Model X to the Trident? Is it noticeably faster than the Model X? I really like the feel and responsive of the Model X but I think I am on the upper weight limit as it loses the pocket pretty easily and I can't recover. I've been thinking about upgrading to the Trident but not sure how much faster it really is based on the measurements.

 

I will share my experience, but please know that I've only been surfing since last July so I've got a lot to learn but I'll give you as much info as I can, with that being said.  All of my surfing has been behind my boat so I can't speak for different type waves or setups.  I have a 2011 VRide (08 wakesetter hull.) I have 750s + 200 stocks in the rear. A 580 midship in front of fuel tank and a 750 bow bag up front.  I fill all full with floating wedge down and wakeshaper.  This setup works great with 3 to 4 average size adults in boat plus rider.  Obviously I adjust ballast for more people.  My wave has good length and still enough push for me on both the X and Trident.  I surf around 10.6 to 11 mph depending on conditions.  I weigh 280 and am about 6'.  On both boards I need to have my rear foot on top or just in front of outside fin locations ( whether I'm riding single fin, double or thruster) to be able to stay on the wave and recover from the back of wave. My front foot is fairly close to front of grip pad.  I adjust my feet positions depending on wave  and conditions and have noticed that can make a huge difference on both boards with small adjustments. All things being equal, the Trident is easier for me to recover from farther back and is a little faster down the line. I would guess the board alone lengthened the sweet spot by at least a foot if not more.  I still ride the Model X on occasion because it's configured with a 2 fin setup, and it's fun to change up the feel, but I spend the majority of my time on the Trident with a single fin because I feel like I have more wave to play with when riding it vs the X. It's very playful and responsive for a guy my size and I can be a little more aggresive without pearling the nose, which happens to me more frequently on the model x.  I hope that helps?!  I'm glad I made the purchase.  

I've attempted to link a short video of our last outing on the Trident.  Not sure if it will work?  Please disregard the fat guy attempting a 360.....fail....lol

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158078574243018&id=628598017

Edited June 18, 2018 by bovhica

[JeffC]

13 hours ago, bovhica said:

I still ride the Model X on occasion because it's configured with a 2 fin setup, and it's fun to change up the feel, but I spend the majority of my time on the Trident with a single fin because I feel like I have more wave to play with when riding it vs the X. It's very playful and responsive for a guy my size and I can be a little more aggressive without pearling the nose, which happens to me more frequently on the model x.  I hope that helps?!  I'm glad I made the purchase.  

I rode a Diamond Saturday.   Very similar to my model X, especially in a single fin configuration.   I was working on getting a 360 done, and it felt very similar.   I would LOVE to try a Trident.  Im 5'11", and high 220's,  my model 58" X seems very fast, but similar to many comments I have seen, prone to pearling the nose.   I find it very responsive - using your word that I think is quite descriptive - "playful".    While easy for me to break away, it still tracks well - much more so on the 3 fin configuration of course.

For me the X has been a very good mix - will track when I want it to, but MUCH more responsive than my broadcast.   For my son in law and his friend, they find the model X to track a little too hard, and actually can throw the broadcast around more easily with one fin.  That blows me away - although they are MUCH lighter than I - Son in Law is probably more like 150.   I think my 58" X is probably too big for them...  although they still find it prone to bury the nose.   Makes for comical moments...

BTW, for reference, we also all started last summer too... so we are still relative newbs.   The two of them are also 28 years younger than me... perhaps a bit more athletic ?  :-)

[MystiikVLX]

17 hours ago, bovhica said:

I will share my experience, but please know that I've only been surfing since last July so I've got a lot to learn but I'll give you as much info as I can, with that being said.  All of my surfing has been behind my boat so I can't speak for different type waves or setups.  I have a 2011 VRide (08 wakesetter hull.) I have 750s + 200 stocks in the rear. A 580 midship in front of fuel tank and a 750 bow bag up front.  I fill all full with floating wedge down and wakeshaper.  This setup works great with 3 to 4 average size adults in boat plus rider.  Obviously I adjust ballast for more people.  My wave has good length and still enough push for me on both the X and Trident.  I surf around 10.6 to 11 mph depending on conditions.  I weigh 280 and am about 6'.  On both boards I need to have my rear foot on top or just in front of outside fin locations ( whether I'm riding single fin, double or thruster) to be able to stay on the wave and recover from the back of wave. My front foot is fairly close to front of grip pad.  I adjust my feet positions depending on wave  and conditions and have noticed that can make a huge difference on both boards with small adjustments. All things being equal, the Trident is easier for me to recover from farther back and is a little faster down the line. I would guess the board alone lengthened the sweet spot by at least a foot if not more.  I still ride the Model X on occasion because it's configured with a 2 fin setup, and it's fun to change up the feel, but I spend the majority of my time on the Trident with a single fin because I feel like I have more wave to play with when riding it vs the X. It's very playful and responsive for a guy my size and I can be a little more aggresive without pearling the nose, which happens to me more frequently on the model x.  I hope that helps?!  I'm glad I made the purchase.  

I've attempted to link a short video of our last outing on the Trident.  Not sure if it will work?  Please disregard the fat guy attempting a 360.....fail....lol

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158078574243018&id=628598017

Quick side question. How do you video that? Is that a gopro and if so, how or where did you mount it?  thanks.

[bovhica]

6 hours ago, MystiikVLX said:

Quick side question. How do you video that? Is that a gopro and if so, how or where did you mount it?  thanks.

It's my buddies GoPro with a suction cup adapter stuck to the transom.  His works well there because it has a great wide angle.  My cheap GoPro knock off, not so much.

[bovhica]

Update:  The wife started on the Broadcast this year and recently decided she likes the shorter Pixie.  She road the pixie a few times, got brave and threw the rope yesterday.  She rode for about 30 to 45 seconds ropeless and is now a surf addict.  Thanls for all the advice!