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The Great Compromise of 2018... Ski and surf review added!


ahopkins22LSV

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Nice looking boat. Love to see pics when you get it. I’m thinking of a 2019 VTX myself. I currently ski and surf my 2013 VLX with the diamond hull (don’t laugh too hard about the skiing). I’m trying to get a test ski and surf behind one to help me decide but I have to drive 3 hrs to a dealer that has a 2018. I have some questions about your 2019. Does it have the new Malibu engine? Assuming you got SG, my dealer told me ALL 2019’s will have the surf pipe but that it has been shortened to be out of the water when skiing. Can you verify that? Does your passenger seat storage compartment have the pass through to the bow seating area? Do you know what the stock prop is? And finally, the rear ballast tanks - are they the new L shape to support the PNP system?

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ahopkins22LSV
18 minutes ago, 21lsvskier said:

Nice looking boat. Love to see pics when you get it. I’m thinking of a 2019 VTX myself. I currently ski and surf my 2013 VLX with the diamond hull (don’t laugh too hard about the skiing). I’m trying to get a test ski and surf behind one to help me decide but I have to drive 3 hrs to a dealer that has a 2018. I have some questions about your 2019. Does it have the new Malibu engine? Assuming you got SG, my dealer told me ALL 2019’s will have the surf pipe but that it has been shortened to be out of the water when skiing. Can you verify that? Does your passenger seat storage compartment have the pass through to the bow seating area? Do you know what the stock prop is? And finally, the rear ballast tanks - are they the new L shape to support the PNP system?

Thank you! I haven't taken delivery yet, but can answer a few things.

Malibu Engine? No, I have the Crusader Challenger 6.0l 410 with the 1:50:1 transmission (there is the option to go with the 1:76:1 but everyone at the factor said go with the 1:50:1). This is a tried and true stout engine, so I wouldn't hesitate ordering one with it as it is somewhat unknown when the Malibu engines will be implemented. MY 19-2020 is really all we know on here.

New Surf Pipe - Yes it is shorter and routes behind the PWIII. If you get PWIII, surf pipe comes with it. Ordering or not ordering surf gate doesn't effect the wedge or the pipe. IMO you have to order wedge, and surf gate and now surf pipe. Resale would take a HUGE hit without them. I am told the pipe does not affect the ski wake but that is TBD.

Stock prop is the OJ 951. From what I am told, this is the OP 948 with a special cup tuned for the VTX. 

I can answer the remaining when I have the boat!

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39 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Thank you! I haven't taken delivery yet, but can answer a few things.

Malibu Engine? No, I have the Crusader Challenger 6.0l 410 with the 1:50:1 transmission (there is the option to go with the 1:76:1 but everyone at the factor said go with the 1:50:1). This is a tried and true stout engine, so I wouldn't hesitate ordering one with it as it is somewhat unknown when the Malibu engines will be implemented. MY 19-2020 is really all we know on here.

New Surf Pipe - Yes it is shorter and routes behind the PWIII. If you get PWIII, surf pipe comes with it. Ordering or not ordering surf gate doesn't effect the wedge or the pipe. IMO you have to order wedge, and surf gate and now surf pipe. Resale would take a HUGE hit without them. I am told the pipe does not affect the ski wake but that is TBD.

Stock prop is the OJ 951. From what I am told, this is the OP 948 with a special cup tuned for the VTX. 

I can answer the remaining when I have the boat!

I'm excited for you!!  Question (and I am no transmission ratio expert) - why did they say to go with the 1:50:1 vs. the 1:76:1?  I have a 2018 21 VLX that has the 1:50:1 and it runs awesome.  Talking props.....I went from an OJ948 to an OJ945 with a 13 pitch and its kicks a**.  I was having some problems getting out of the hole with full ballast (tracking the bow weight solution) and the 945 rockets out of the hole as the 948 struggled under the same ballast scenarios.

Edited by Blenderhead
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ahopkins22LSV
23 minutes ago, Blenderhead said:

I'm excited for you!!  Question (and I am no transmission ratio expert) - why did they say to go with the 1:50:1 vs. the 1:76:1?  I have a 2018 21 VLX that has the 1:50:1 and it runs awesome.  Talking props.....I went from an OJ948 to an OJ945 with a 13 pitch and its kicks a**.  I was having some problems getting out of the hole with full ballast (tracking the bow weight solution) and the 945 rockets out of the hole as the 948 struggled under the same ballast scenarios.

Well they showed me some rpm numbers and they were lower at surf and ski speeds. I’m totally taking their word with this so hopefully they are right! 

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23 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Well they showed me some rpm numbers and they were lower at surf and ski speeds. I’m totally taking their word with this so hopefully they are right! 

Ya me too! lol

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Interesting about the engine. Crusader is (as you may know) PCM, so yes they have been around and are good engines. If you are interested go to arb.ca.gov/database, choose Spark Ignition Marine engines, select model year 2018, scroll down the manufacturer list to Pleasure Craft Marine Engines, check mark that item and hit submit. You will see 4 engines listed. I think yours may be either #2 or #3. The power is listed as kW. The conversion to HP is multiple by 1.3412. So engine #2 = 374 HP and #3 = 363 HP. BTW #1: California is the mother of all air quality restriction states so if the engine is certified here then it's certifies everywhere. BTW #2: Malibu or Indmar (or both) have been misrepresenting how much HP the 350 Monsoon engine produces. I was told my 2013 VLX was 350 CI/350 HP. But the placard on the back of the engines says it is 230 kW = 308 HP. Hmmm. Also take a look at Malibu as the engine maker. They have one engine listed, a 5.3 liter motor. It has a 301 kW rating = 403.7 HP. From an engine 400 CC smaller. How did they do that?? Since the database does not list torque values maybe the 410 is torque, not HP. 

Mikeo (who happens to be my son-in-law) had a long conversation the other day with Ron at Malibu tech support. According to Ron, the Surf Pipe is required with the Surfgate, not the wedge. Don't mean to start an argument but that agrees with what my dealer told me. Either way the pipe is shorter and I am told does not mess with the ski wake and would be good to have. I surf almost as much as i ski.

And finally, for what it's worth, I talked to T-Gas at the 2016 California Pro-Am and asked him "just between you and me, and knowing you have to toe the party line, how does the VTX really ski?". His response was "it is very good down to 32 off. Beyond that it is not a TXi". I took that as positive feedback. And I was told (by a reliable source) that he wanted a VTX himself for his ski school so he could teach surfing as well as skiing. Malibu turned him down, so I'm told.

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ahopkins22LSV

410 is the torque I believe. It’s the same engine that axis has been using and basically the same engine Indmar offered years ago before they switched ford. It could say 999 on it for all I care, I honestly don’t get hung up on that number, it’s all about how the engine performs and how reliable it is. 

And im telling you it is require with the wedge because they redesigned both the pipe and the wedge to be integrated together. And I’m not trying to argue or brag either but since I ordered this boat in the beginning of June, I had this information then because I actually didn’t want the surfpipe as I feared it would have a negative impact on the Ski wake. That is when my dealer and I got in touch with the factory. You can see in the pictures of this add how the pipe and wedge interact and how it doesn’t with surf gate. https://www.onlyinboards.com/2019-Malibu-Boats-22-MXZ-for-sale-Santa-Fe-New-Mexico-84195.aspx

To answer your two remaining questions, no it does not have the new L shapes rear ballast tanks. Not sure if they could because the beam is narrower on the vtx then it is on the newer boats with those tanks. They also haven’t redesigned the vtx since the 2016 redesign and those types of changes typically come at that time. 

And no the storage behind the passenger seat doesn’t extend into the bow because I got the bow ballast. Not sure what it would do without the bow ballast. 

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7 hours ago, 21lsvskier said:

 

Mikeo (who happens to be my son-in-law) had a long conversation the other day with Ron at Malibu tech support. According to Ron, the Surf Pipe is required with the Surfgate, not the wedge. Don't mean to start an argument but that agrees with what my dealer told me. Either way the pipe is shorter and I am told does not mess with the ski wake and would be good to have. I surf almost as much as i ski.

It comes standard with the PW3.

I suspect he misunderstood.

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@ahopkinsTXi, I was catching up on this thread and it occurred to me that the engine in question here is the Chevrolet L96 6.0L. I know I’m stating the obvious, but I think sometimes we forget the history of this engine in the Malibu lineup. Just a few years ago this was a $5k upgrade in all boats up to the 23 LSV. It was the base motor and the very same motor @Bawshogg was running in his legendary, dong sacked 247 (go back and read up on his fuel efficient it was for him). Almost nobody spec’d it in the VTX or VLX because it was viewed as overkill. Matter of fact, I paid to upgrade to this exact same L96 motor + 1.5 : 1 transmission (marinized by Indmar) in my 2015 23 LSV. You may remember that back then I was running 100% dedicated pumps (ie not PnP) to 1100’s in my lockers + 1000 lb bow triangle. That boat was pushing well over 4000 lbs in total ballast (not counting people, gas, or PW2). Not to mention the boat itself weighed more than your VTX. And that powertrain was GREAT!!

Now fast forward a few years to today and think about this for a sec... same powertrain is now STANDARD in a even the VTX!  Hop, your boat is gonna be a HOT ROD!  And it will handle whatever you throw at it.  I doubt very much you’ll ever run 4500 lbs of total ballast, but it’s good to know you have that kind of head room, eh?

Of course back then we were running 14.5” props and today you get 15” which will only make the boat run lower, quieter RPM’s  

And it’s not like this is an old spec motor; It’s the base motor is GM’s HD truck lineup!

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ahopkins22LSV
43 minutes ago, IXFE said:

@ahopkinsTXi, I was catching up on this thread and it occurred to me that the engine in question here is the Chevrolet L96 6.0L. I know I’m stating the obvious, but I think sometimes we forget the history of this engine in the Malibu lineup. Just a few years ago this was a $5k upgrade in all boats up to the 23 LSV. It was the base motor and the very same motor @Bawshogg was running in his legendary, dong sacked 247 (go back and read up on his fuel efficient it was for him). Almost nobody spec’d it in the VTX or VLX because it was viewed as overkill. Matter of fact, I paid to upgrade to this exact same L96 motor + 1.5 : 1 transmission (marinized by Indmar) in my 2015 23 LSV. You may remember that back then I was running 100% dedicated pumps (ie not PnP) to 1100’s in my lockers + 1000 lb bow triangle. That boat was pushing well over 4000 lbs in total ballast (not counting people, gas, or PW2). Not to mention the boat itself weighed more than your VTX. And that powertrain was GREAT!!

Now fast forward a few years to today and think about this for a sec... same powertrain is now STANDARD in a even the VTX!  Hop, your boat is gonna be a HOT ROD!  And it will handle whatever you throw at it.  I doubt very much you’ll ever run 4500 lbs of total ballast, but it’s good to know you have that kind of head room, eh?

Of course back then we were running 14.5” props and today you get 15” which will only make the boat run lower, quieter RPM’s  

And it’s not like this is an old spec motor; It’s the base motor is GM’s HD truck lineup!

I know! I don’t understand why there seems to be this panick about this being the base motor haha. Your facts are why I’m not worried at all and actually excited about it. Also why I said I don’t care if it says Monsoon 410 or Monsoon 999. That is just a model number to me. People are over thinking this. 

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I have one question, just because I am very curious... what are the torque specs on a Raptor 410 vs. GM 409?  does anyone really know?  I am not saying one is better than the other, I have had both of these engines now with substantial hours on both boats (205 with the GM 409 and 169 hours with the Raptor).  I don't have a true apple to apple comparison because one trans was the 1.51 and the other is the 1.76 which definitely could make a difference in performance comparing the two engines.  FWIW both engines get the job done, although I will say the Raptor with the 2277 prop (speed prop) has been spot on for us even at 2000' elevation, it has been a great performing engine with avg fuel consumption right around 7-7.5 GPH.  I got about the same fuel consumption with the 409 as well.

@ahopkinsTXicongrats on the new ride, looks awesome! I know the 6.0L will treat you well it was a great engine for us.

Edited by Fman
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ahopkins22LSV
43 minutes ago, inlandlaker said:

@ahopkinsTXi you have to let me know when you take delivery.  I'm going to need to make a trip to see you and the new rig.  I'll bring both my new ski and my new board!  And I'll take my lead, too.

I’ll text you!

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ahopkins22LSV
5 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Congrats.  Weird how it looks a different color in every single picture. 

Well the one is a wireless security camera. Its always for a weird hue to the picture. It does change though, which makes it awesome. 

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