Not your normal install... Speedboat Stereo..

[headshothills]

Hey Everyone...

Im struggling here with what I thought would be a killer install, and Im finding out I jumped the gun a tad and now Im having to re-evaluate my options...

Let me start off by saying, this is not a wakeboat, its quite the opposite, this is a speedboat (Cat), but my passion for sound and audio still lives...

 

Let me start off by saying, everything speakers and amps are all Wet Sounds, and this wont change, so if you make it to the end of this and provide your input, please keep it to Wet Sounds products.

The Original Purchase..

8 Rev8's

4 Rev10's

3 SD2's

The Rev8's were removed from the cans and installed in the cabin/cockpit sides, 4 on each side facing inward, both hooked up to 2 SD'2 running 2ohm.

The Rev10's were going to be installed in the mid-hatch, removed from the cans, and custom enclosed, 2 firing forward, 2 firing backwards, when the mid-hatch was opened... (This was never done)

As the initial excitement to put this stereo in has worn off, reality has set in vs excitement when I first purchased everything, and now Im realizing after having the boat, I think I made a couple mistakes.

1) the 8 Rev8's in the cabin/cockpit dont really do much, after having them installed for the past year, I honestly dont think 8 gets me much more than 4 will. Additionally, they fire directly at each other from opposite sides. When when you compare what 8 vs 4 sounds like in "THIS" type of installed, Im dead set on removing 4 and leaving only 4 installed, after all, its a speedboat, less weight = more speed... LOL Not being the audio expert on these, Im wondering if the sound quality for this type of install would be better suited for a set of Revo8's vs the Rev8's. The Rev8's are NOT harsh on the ears, but im trying to decide if it would sound better with Revo8's installed in the cabin/cockpit vs the Rev8, or if there would even be a different. I do understand the Rev8 are Compression Horns meant for throwing the sound at distance, but when they are installed in the cabin/cockpit, and they are facing each other, theres really no distance to project, which is why Im second guessing if the Revo8's would be better suited and sound better...

2) The Rev10's didnt get installed, instead, reality hit and I realize if I modified my mid-hatch and created a custom glassed enclosure as I was describing, this would totally interfere with getting IN and OUT of the boat from the rear, so this idea was scratched... Instead, Ive opted to surface mount them on swivel's on the sides to accomodate versatility in forward listening and rear listening. the 2nd set of Rev10's has been scrapped. Not comes to the interesting part.. Under the Mid-hatch for additional forward facing sound.. I was thinking of putting 2 of the Stealth 6 Sound Bars under the mid-hatch, so when the hatch was opened, the sound bars could project sound forward. I called Wet Sounds and verified they didnt make the Surge 6 in White, and in doing so advised them of what I was thinking about doing, they offered up the Rev6X9 Gunnel option and said that 2 Sound Bars are equivalent  to 1 set of Rev6x9 Gunnels... So now Im really torn on my options... Without having experience with either of these options, Im reaching out and asking. If the consensus is the Rev6x9 Gunnels, what would the amp recommendation be? The SD2 is WAY overkill, so I was thinking one of the Micro's??

 

Appreciate any feedback....

 

Thanks

[cowwboy]

Can you post some pictures of your hatch area's? I know a few of the MTI's on our lakes have the mini hatches that pop up in front of the cabin with the speakers glassed into the bottom. Do you have a mid cabin open bow?
I am with you on the thoughts that the rev8's may not be best suited for a smaller compartment. But to be honest, 4 pairs of rev 8's and it's not loud enough?
Either you have some serious noise cancellation or maybe not quite tuned correctly. 
You may look into trying to enclose the back of the drivers since they are designed to be inside of an enclosure and not infinite baffle. 
I know if I were to put my 410's into my cockpit you wouldn't be able to hear anything else but them. 

But there again my friends roots blown cat would be hard to overcome. That damn blower above the back hatch is quite loud. 
 

[minnmarker]

Buy some hearing aids.

[MLA]

No woofer?

Id consider swapping 2 pair of the rev-8 drivers for 3 pair of revo-8 then put a pair of Revo-8FA woofers, or if you can fit, a pair of revo-10fa in place of the last pair of rev-8 drivers. new SD-4 and one existing SD-2 for the woofers.

Pics might help, but what about mounting the rev-10 in the originally planned location but in their pods and using the TC3-S swivel clamps. They can be removed for access. Not sure if this solves the problem, pics might help. 

Id take a pair of revo-6x9 over sound bars any day when space and clearance allow. Nothing at all against the sound bars, but the larger cones have the mid-bass advantage. An STX-4 micro bridged is perfect for a pair of revo-6x9, so it an Syn-DX and HTX-2. 

[headshothills]

1 hour ago, cowwboy said:

Can you post some pictures of your hatch area's? I know a few of the MTI's on our lakes have the mini hatches that pop up in front of the cabin with the speakers glassed into the bottom. Do you have a mid cabin open bow?
I am with you on the thoughts that the rev8's may not be best suited for a smaller compartment. But to be honest, 4 pairs of rev 8's and it's not loud enough?
Either you have some serious noise cancellation or maybe not quite tuned correctly. 
You may look into trying to enclose the back of the drivers since they are designed to be inside of an enclosure and not infinite baffle. 
I know if I were to put my 410's into my cockpit you wouldn't be able to hear anything else but them. 

But there again my friends roots blown cat would be hard to overcome. That damn blower above the back hatch is quite loud. 
 

Definitely get where you're going... I will say that I am an active audio hobbyist, Ive been dabbling in this stuff since high school, IT Security Engineer by trade now and prior Navy egress mechanic.

 What I will say from a tuning standpoint is you might be right.. I DID NOT cross the Rev8's over at 80-100hz, instead, I have a SMD DD-1, tuned the HU for max volume with 0 distortion, then tuned the amp off of the max HU level without distortion, which left the gains about 1/2. Honestly, until reading some of the posts about crossing the Rev8's, I was under the impression the Crossovers would handle everything and left the SD2 in AP.. So I will definitely re-tweak...

In terms of cancellation, this is exactly what I am thinking.. I have 3 in a row on the top and then 1 below... Obviously the lower one is doing nothing when its projection path is at your feet across the bottom of the cabin...

 

Looks like Ill have to URL IMG copy/paste to get them in here, give me a minute...

 

 

[headshothills]

20 minutes ago, MLA said:

No woofer?

Id consider swapping 2 pair of the rev-8 drivers for 3 pair of revo-8 then put a pair of Revo-8FA woofers, or if you can fit, a pair of revo-10fa in place of the last pair of rev-8 drivers. new SD-4 and one existing SD-2 for the woofers.

Pics might help, but what about mounting the rev-10 in the originally planned location but in their pods and using the TC3-S swivel clamps. They can be removed for access. Not sure if this solves the problem, pics might help. 

Id take a pair of revo-6x9 over sound bars any day when space and clearance allow. Nothing at all against the sound bars, but the larger cones have the mid-bass advantage. An STX-4 micro bridged is perfect for a pair of revo-6x9, so it an Syn-DX and HTX-2. 

Hey MLA... Ive read a lot of your posts, so thanks for joining in...

 

To answer your first question... No Subs, was going on the full premise that the Rev8/10's would be enough to get by, dont need to kill any fish.. LOL My last boat had 4 15" in 4th order, and I could flex the bow 4" at full tilt... Instead, I was opting for sound quality and figured I would save the excessive weight and not add sub(s).. If this were an option, sub(s) choices would not be limited to WS.. But I was trying to stay away from that.. LOL

 

In response to your swapping the 2 pair of Rev8's for 3 Pair of Revo8.. Id love to understand your thoughts... Will the Revo8's sound better given their location as compared to having the Rev8's?? 

 

Appreciate the info on the Soundbar, honestly, it will come down to space.. Ill show you the sketch i emailed to Earmark Marine in hopes to get some feedback from Joe, was thinking about emailing Odin too, wish David was still around.. LOL

 

The idea behind the mid-hatch will serve as dual purpose.. When open, "some for of sound" will project forward.. ie.. Rev6x9 Gunnel or Stealth Soundbar.. Additionally, the mid-hatch will serve as a storage space for mounting the Rev10's when they arent mounted outside, additionally, I could easily wire up both position so the Rev10's could play in both mounted areas, The Rev10's though, due to length, will only be able to be mounted sideways under the  mid-hatch, because the hatch will not close otherwise...

 

lemme get some pics posted... gimme a sec..

[headshothills]

Here is the cabin pics... As you can somewhat see, the speakers on the sides fire directly at one another...

 

 

Here is a close up of the install.. 3 Rev8 up top and 1 lower...

 

 

This will give you an overall idea which will setup the next 2 pics to follow.. Behind the back seats in the Mid-hatch, off to the sides of the mid-hatch will be the Rev10 mounting location....

 

 

And here is my attempt to mark up the mid-hatch with the options...

 

 

[cowwboy]

With that small of a cockpit and that many drivers, it should be plenty loud. What is the current issue with the output? High's, Midbas, Bass, total volume? 

I see the benefit of a revo 8 over the rev 8 being that they were designed for infinite baffle rather then the rev's were designed for a small sealed enclosure. 
It's almost like the sound difference of a sub trying to play open on the bench vs the sound in a correct box.

Also for the rev 10's I have seen a few guys on Texoma have mounts that slid onto the windshield for when tied up. Have a quick connect plug under your dash and then put them back in that rear compartment when under way. 

Good looking boat. What power and drives? 
Guessing by the boats name you're in the keys? 

 

[headshothills]

2 minutes ago, cowwboy said:

With that small of a cockpit and that many drivers, it should be plenty loud. What is the current issue with the output? High's, Midbas, Bass, total volume? 

I see the benefit of a revo 8 over the rev 8 being that they were designed for infinite baffle rather then the rev's were designed for a small sealed enclosure. 
It's almost like the sound difference of a sub trying to play open on the bench vs the sound in a correct box.

Also for the rev 10's I have seen a few guys on Texoma have mounts that slid onto the windshield for when tied up. Have a quick connect plug under your dash and then put them back in that rear compartment when under way. 

Good looking boat. What power and drives? 
Guessing by the boats name you're in the keys? 

 

Honestly.. Output.. I thought that 8 Rev8's would be painful to turn up... Its not.. The HU is a Rockford PMX setup with the PMX-8BB hideaway and the PMX-8DH as the interface, all tied into the CANBUS for the Raymarine...

I didnt even think about the IB part of the Revo vs the Rev, and my Wet Sounds Rep knew exactly what I was doing with them and he didnt catch that either... That alone would make me want to switch knowing that the Revo8 are designed as IB and the Rev8 require enclosure... guess I failed at that one. Again, I think the excitement of putting together a Wet Sounds system had me way over anxious and pulled the trigger too early based on emotion instead of data...

 

So I guess my next question would be, how big of a sound difference will it be, I get your analogy of a woofer on bench in the free vs in a seal enclosure, so from a bass/midbass standpoint, it should be night and day.. Dont get me wrong, 8 of these things in the cabin hump.. but nowhere near what I expected... Now the million dollar question.... 4 or 8 Revo8's? Or 6 like MTA suggested....

 

Thanks about the boat... Its an '08 Spectre 32.. Has Merc 525's with flashed ECM's, Bravo XR uppers with Sportmaster lowers.115mph... . 120 hours on everything.. Hence the name Turn Keyz because of the motor package.. Previous boat has a blower motor, followed by a rebuild, then 22 hours later got a EFI Whippled charged motor... so finally got rid of it and moved over to something slightly less maintenance hungry... LOL We are actually Havasu boaters and also travel around, here in Phx area, go up to Tahoe also.

[cowwboy]

I wouldn't just swap the drivers, may look into sealing the back of the enclosure. I may be completely off but that would be my first guess. 
You have the right components and a fairly small space. It's all there just sometimes the slightest little thing we don't notice makes a huge difference. 

I won't forget trying to build my first T-line inside an f150 console. I swear if I didn't get that port 180 degree's out from the driver it was dang close. 
You could feel the sub shaking the entire truck but damn near no sound. It's own port canceled it out. 
Playing with sound waves gets real deep and I like you have played with it for a long time and still am schooled quite a bit. 


So do you know Carlton (Cats a**). He is a local and seems to be at damn near every boating event. Real nice guy, will talk shop for hours. 
He got a few of the guys around here to go to DCB's and the new merc 1550's seem to be taking over. 

Way out of my play toy money but amazing works of engineering. 
 

[headshothills]

3 minutes ago, cowwboy said:

I wouldn't just swap the drivers, may look into sealing the back of the enclosure. I may be completely off but that would be my first guess. 
You have the right components and a fairly small space. It's all there just sometimes the slightest little thing we don't notice makes a huge difference. 

I won't forget trying to build my first T-line inside an f150 console. I swear if I didn't get that port 180 degree's out from the driver it was dang close. 
You could feel the sub shaking the entire truck but damn near no sound. It's own port canceled it out. 
Playing with sound waves gets real deep and I like you have played with it for a long time and still am schooled quite a bit. 


So do you know Carlton (Cats a**). He is a local and seems to be at damn near every boating event. Real nice guy, will talk shop for hours. 
He got a few of the guys around here to go to DCB's and the new merc 1550's seem to be taking over. 

Way out of my play toy money but amazing works of engineering. 
 

HAHA Ohh Yah Carlton.. My last boat was a DCB.. but didnt want to drop the coin on a newer one, looked hard at an '08 F32 with Merc 700's, and once again, reality hit when I ran the #'s, at 225k with 125k down and 100k financed for 10yrs, even at 3% was like 970/mo... F that... for what I could have put down on that boat I bought the one we have clear and free. Love the craftsmanship of the DCB and the work they do though.. But, with my boat now we can do the ocean.. :D Already did Catalina... what a blast.. 

 

I'd consider swapping the Rev8's for the Revo8's before I would try enclosing them. The interior is made up of seafoam, not wood, to it was a challenge just to get the Rev8's with all their weight and depth mounted.. So trying to add in additional enclosure space behind them, is literally impossible given their location and the way the gunnel turns down right behind them, i would have to re-engine the entire interior. Not to mention, the Rev8s are almost 2x the weight as the revo8's...     Rev8 = 12.8lbs each and the  Revo8's are 6.5 lbs each.. Hence my easiest option to swap out with revo8's...

[COOP]

Just an opinion, but REVs are designed to project and sound best 40-60ft away, I personally dont think they sound good that close to you.  Revos would be the way to go on the interior, and with that many and good power volume should be plenty. Also, if you need that many Revs inside and still dont think its loud enough you may want to see an ear doctor. 

[MLA]

A couple of 8's or 10's are a far cry from four 15's, so you are clear across town from going down that road  The biggest reason to add a woofer, is for overall sound quality. The side benefit of this is to relieve the rev-8's from the full-pass job they are pulling now. This can actually gain you some output you some output from those rev-8 (or the coax if you made the switch) and improve their SQ. 

Although the primary function of an HLCD is for narrow focus wake projection, they can have a peak volume advantage over a coaxial. But with that small of a cockpit and that number of well powered 8" drivers, I dont see noticeable loss of peak volume, compared to some overall sound quality that can be gained by moving from an HLCD to a coax. And if im reading correct, this is what you want? Better SQ but still want loud?  

After seeing the pics, that lower coaming pad driver location looks perfect for a woofer, providing the pad can support it. That can be addressed. However, its proximity to the other full-range drivers could be an issue if there is no divider.  

[headshothills]

11 minutes ago, MLA said:

A couple of 8's or 10's are a far cry from four 15's, so you are clear across town from going down that road  The biggest reason to add a woofer, is for overall sound quality. The side benefit of this is to relieve the rev-8's from the full-pass job they are pulling now. This can actually gain you some output you some output from those rev-8 (or the coax if you made the switch) and improve their SQ. 

Although the primary function of an HLCD is for narrow focus wake projection, they can have a peak volume advantage over a coaxial. But with that small of a cockpit and that number of well powered 8" drivers, I dont see noticeable loss of peak volume, compared to some overall sound quality that can be gained by moving from an HLCD to a coax. And if im reading correct, this is what you want? Better SQ but still want loud?  

After seeing the pics, that lower coaming pad driver location looks perfect for a woofer, providing the pad can support it. That can be addressed. However, its proximity to the other full-range drivers could be an issue if there is no divider.  

Thanks MLA...

 

I will say you are pretty much on point... My normal go to guy who owns a stereo shop in Havasu is in line, I just hate leveraging that tie since I know its his business, but I finally broke down and got in touch with him. He's saying the same thing, need a sub to relieve the 8's. He also mentioned that running in AP vs HP with 80-100hz should make a difference, if both the Revo's and Rev's were both in a HP config, their wont be much sound difference or need for sealed, when the Rev's are in AP, then they would suffer from not having the seal enclosure... So I think that wraps this up.. Although he advised me to go with the new RF 8 horned speakers after the fact... less weight and mounting depth...LOL

 

So, yes, loud and proud is the game.. Im guessing if I can give up some speaker weight, a sub wouldnt hurt.. just dont know where it would go without having to redo the interior.. Bill Auberlen's Spectre is off the charts, he has 2 Treo 18" subs in the sides of his, 12 6.5's and a wall of speakers in his engine hatch... its off the charts, the pics of his ride are sick.. but then again he has 1500+HP PSI blower motors and is capable of 190mph.. slightly different when you have stock merc 525's pushing you... LOL

 

He is also in agreement with the lower Rev 8 is absolutely useless... So now the options switch to a 3 & 3 setup on the sides vs a 4 & 4.... the 3  makes it an odd wiring, I know you recommended the Sd4.. how would you wire that up?

 

thanks again appreciate all your guys input

[MLA]

If changing the speakers due to weight, which I agree is a concern in a boat that can go as fast as that one, which can mean harder wave hits, Id go with an 8" coax over an HLCD. Im fairly confident that in that small of a cockpit, six 8" drivers on HP with strong power, will play just as loud as the RF 8" HLCD and no wasted tower pods. The difference is with the coax you wont get the ear ringing aggressive highs that are perceived as louder. 

With the SD-4 and 3 pair of speakers, one pair on 2 chnl, last 2 pair each on a chnl. Averages out to about 160W rms to each of the 6 speakers. Use one of the existing SD-2 for the two woofers for 300W rms to each.  

[headshothills]

5 minutes ago, MLA said:

If changing the speakers due to weight, which I agree is a concern in a boat that can go as fast as that one, which can mean harder wave hits, Id go with an 8" coax over an HLCD. Im fairly confident that in that small of a cockpit, six 8" drivers on HP with strong power, will play just as loud as the RF 8" HLCD and no wasted tower pods. The difference is with the coax you wont get the ear ringing aggressive highs that are perceived as louder. 

With the SD-4 and 3 pair of speakers, one pair on 2 chnl, last 2 pair each on a chnl. Averages out to about 160W rms to each of the 6 speakers. Use one of the existing SD-2 for the two woofers for 300W rms to each.  

I think I gotcha now.. 1 pair at 4ohm and the other 2 pair at 2ohm...