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Ideas for step in back seat vinyl?


Infinitysurf

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I am having a "step" built into the middle center of my back seat in next couple weeks like some of the Malibu's have, the Nautique G3, etc. I am trying to find out what they put under it, anyone know? I assume the foam/cushion is cut out (like 12x8 are)...then some kind of rubber block placed inside the foam cutout (to create a hard area to step on), then vinyl skin installed and the SeaDeck step is installed on top of vinyl so people know where to step to get too transom.

My boat is a 2014 and the seams in that back seat are starting to rip, its the only area of boat I am having that issue, cause everyone has to step there to get to back of boat....so trying to figure out a way to prevent that issue in future. Love it if anyone has ideas, or can tell me how the factory does it and a good material to install under that SeaDeck "step" area.... Taking it to vinyl shop hopefully this week to get it modified and want to make sure I do something that will work well. Appreciate all input, good or bad

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I think vinyl would just be cut out and a plastic waffle like piece that gets screwed to the base from the top. Then there is a top plastic piece over the waffle that has the sea dek. This would be a good candidate for 3d printing.

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@TimbrSS Any idea where I can find something like that? Have you seen a "kit" that can be ordered or you thinking I just need to have something designed by vinyl guy?

Cant wait to start riding again soon! It will probably get cold again in March but hopefully a warm Spring and we can start going out on the regular again soon. Guess May is when the water starts warming up, but we have that hot spot we can visit in meantime. I just got finished replacing all my ballast impellers, just have to replace engine impeller, the 2 fuel filters and belt and I will be ready for summer. Got a family vacation planned the 1st week of April to beach, told dealer he has to be 100% done no later than when I get back. Evan is talking about going out just about every week too, they went out Friday afternoon and took out an SE550 with 5k of ballast, but work was too crazy and I missed it.

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Repairing the vinyl every year is relatively cheap, and the dumb block on my G23 disrupts the entire middle of the rear bench where people might want to sit when cruising along.  I wish I didn't have it. 

Just wanted to challenge your thinking a little to be sure you want to do it.  

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18 hours ago, Infinitysurf said:

@TimbrSS Any idea where I can find something like that? Have you seen a "kit" that can be ordered or you thinking I just need to have something designed by vinyl guy?

I would seriously try the Malibu dealer to see if they can get that... if they want an ungodly amount of money, it might be easy to make something out of a few sheets of HPDE stacked together. Cut hole in vinyl slightly smaller than your HPDE plates. I'm guessing you would do about  3 or 4 stacked, then  take a router to the edge of the bottom of the top piece to leave room the capture the vinyl between the top piece and the rest of the stack. Screw that top piece into the stack,  which will sandwich the vinyl, and then cover the top piece with seadek like material.... that's at least what I'm planning on doing when I replace my vinyl in a few weeks.

I'm sure we'll get a few warm days in May, but my boat probably won't be ready to start season until after Apr 1. Still need to do interior, and  want to do the V-drive swap, shaft seal.

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10 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

Repairing the vinyl every year is relatively cheap, and the dumb block on my G23 disrupts the entire middle of the rear bench where people might want to sit when cruising along.  I wish I didn't have it. 

Just wanted to challenge your thinking a little to be sure you want to do it.  

I have thought about it pretty extensively, no one ever sits in the middle of the back seat and if I do have a crew that big, I can put a towel down since I don't want to be repairing vinyl every other year. Its not cost as much as finding people that do a quality job and dont keep your boat for months trying to fit it into their schedule. My vinyl was supposed to be done months ago and here I am a month from riding weather still trying to get it into the shop.....sucks.

1 hour ago, TimbrSS said:

I would seriously try the Malibu dealer to see if they can get that... if they want an ungodly amount of money, it might be easy to make something out of a few sheets of HPDE stacked together. Cut hole in vinyl slightly smaller than your HPDE plates. I'm guessing you would do about  3 or 4 stacked, then  take a router to the edge of the bottom of the top piece to leave room the capture the vinyl between the top piece and the rest of the stack. Screw that top piece into the stack,  which will sandwich the vinyl, and then cover the top piece with seadek like material.... that's at least what I'm planning on doing when I replace my vinyl in a few weeks.

I'm sure we'll get a few warm days in May, but my boat probably won't be ready to start season until after Apr 1. Still need to do interior, and  want to do the V-drive swap, shaft seal.

Thanks, I will talk to dealer and see if buying something is an option. The HDPE is a great idea since I wanted to leave vinyl intact and not cut it....using a piece of HDPE over the vinyl and then installing SeaDeck over it should work perfectly, I was originally thinking if I could get a block of rubber the right side and router the top edge (so vinyl does not catch on edges if someone sits next to step and pushes the vinyl down),  having trouble finding something like that. I know its easy to get HDPE tho since I bought a piece last year and made my bow filler cushion.

Hollar when you do v-drive swap, like to help you if I can make it work. Really hoping to get GSA added to my boat this year too, makes such a great wave on your boat and tired of the suckgate tho it does kick out a really clean wave, we need to do more transfers this summer. WakeMakers did away with their WaveControl version....but will be selling the GSA version in next month or so according to someone I spoke to there about 2 weeks ago for same price.

10 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

What about taking one of the corner cushions and putting gatestep on the bottom of it and flipping it over as a step. That wag it will still look great and be functional when needed. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/A1w2N

 

I actually have something similar to this now, my corner seats come up and below them there is gatorstep....this works perfect at the dock and I just remove the corner cushion and people step into boat, onto the gatorstep without a problem. But on sundeck, I have a center walk-thru and its awkward to try to step from the corner, up to the center walkthru to get to transom. I have tried to get the kids to do it and they cannot, so they either step on back seat, or on sundeck vinyl on ends so kindof defeats the purpose. Its a great feature tho and I always remove the corner seats at dock for people to get in/out.

Thank you all for the great ideas, getting close to making this happen one way or the other. Someone else had mentioned this link: seatsaver.com That piece of cloth which is "semi-rigid" from what I understand....can be placed anywhere and its only like $40 but weight still pushes down on the seams and not sure how much it would help....tho sure it would help some. If for some reason I cannot get them to add a step, this will be my last resort. Tho if vinyl guys wont do it, I am determined to do something myself since I plan to keep the boat another 2yrs.

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I think the key would be a no piping back seat skin that didn’t continue the piping from side to side , it’s the piping that causes the problem , I wsnt to get a factory skin, but I want to know if they can make one with no piping, do they stock the 5 year skin replacements or do they make them to order from an existing supply of the vinyl, my guy didn’t match the color (his was more white) fir my surfing cushion he made for me.  I want that factory color

Edited by granddaddy55
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This is the way to go with no downtime to season, effectiveness , and cost.  Let someone mount an ordered skin of right color with no piping , no matter when it gets here you don’t lose back seat (just demount cushion back assuming there is one, haven’t really studied it and how mounted to frame of step), win all the way round  

i guess flaw is multi color panels I don’t have . May be silly idea, but if using your main base color  it wouldn’t be too bad

Edited by granddaddy55
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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:17 AM, TallRedRider said:

Repairing the vinyl every year is relatively cheap, and the dumb block on my G23 disrupts the entire middle of the rear bench where people might want to sit when cruising along.  I wish I didn't have it. 

Just wanted to challenge your thinking a little to be sure you want to do it.  

 

I had to pay out of pocket to repair the rear seat vinyl on my old 2012 VLX (out of warranty) and it was anything but cheap. The replacement skin itself was $320 from the factory and labor was $175, putting it at $500 total for the seat repair. Since my dealer is 2 hours away, and I didn't have time to drive down and back twice (8 hours total driving), I also paid about $40 each way for shipping since it was a large and odd shaped box. So all in it was nearly $600 to get just the middle seat skin repaired.

To keep it from happening again I made a polycarbonate seat step that sits on top of the rear seat to distribute the load away from the seam that rips when people step on it. It was about $60 in materials and a couple hours of my time. It did require having access to a press so that you could bend the polycarb. I don't have any pictures of it but it worked ok. I kept it to see if it will work on my new boat as well.

 

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I ordered my materials last night to create this "step" onto back seat to get to transom without ripping vinyl seams every other season. Thanks @TimbrSS for the idea of using the HDPE under vinyl too. Here is what I am thinking....

Getting 2) HDPE boards that are 12" wide X 10 deep and 1 1/2" thick....I will put them together to make them 3" thick and then cut out cushion foam and secure them to the bottom of back seat so they stay in place securely. Then the new vinyl skin for back seat will be installed as if they are not there. Once done.....I got another textured piece of HDPE that is 3/8" thick by 14" wide and 12" deep. I will place it over the new vinyl directly over the pieces installed under new vinyl (this piece will overhand each side 1" and basically sandwich the vinyl). I will also use a router on sides of exposed HDPE to make it look nice since edges will be exposed. Since my seat cushion foam is 3 13/8" thick, when I secure the top piece of HDPE down to the lower pieces, it will "suck" down the foam a little bit to make it approx even with vinyl so it is not raised up. Then I will have to get a piece of GatorStep cut to size to install over the HDPE to give it that finished custom look.

This sound like a good plan?....anyone think of anything I am missing or problems I may have? Only thing I am not sure of is I will need to screw down that top piece of HDPE to the lower ones, which of course means I am running 2 screws (maybe 4) thru the vinyl so suck it down and hold it in place. Of course I have a screw holes in vinyl....and when stepping on sides of seat next to step, it will tear those holes a little bit, I dont think it will get too bad tho since with the screws there should be a good bit of pressure on the vinyl (also will have slight router along top of piece under vinyl so down pressure will not tear the vinyl). I was thinking of installing some duct tape or something else to keep it from tearing just where screws will penetrate the vinyl (under HDPE and out of sight of course) and I will be sure to keep all screws at least 4" from any side. Gluing will not work since it wont suck it down and hold it tight in place, so I THINK that screws may be my only option.... (I could cut out some of the vinyl but I tend to think it will hold better if I dont cut any vinyl and just sandwich it between the HDPE...if I cut it, it possible it could tear easier...but maybe not).
Can anyone suggest a better way to secure the top piece of exposed HDPE that will be used to step on..... to the pieces located under the vinyl that may reduce my chances of the vinyl tearing as time goes on? If not, I will go with it cause I am still sure it will keep the vinyl in better shape for longer, just hoping someone is smarter than me and can suggest something I have not thought of. Inviting any suggestions OR critizism of my plan, in case it helps me do a better job.

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Sweet project, I'm sort of lost trying to follow how you're doing but that's probably my problem with comprehension, not your description.  The only thing I would question is how well the gatorstep will stick to the top hdpe.  I've never done it but doesn't that type of material sort of continually leach an oily substance?

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Its the same material that seat cushions are laid on (I made a bow filler cushion for my boat and used the same stuff in 5/8" thick), its for marine use cause it wont mildew or absorb any moisture and many boats use it in other areas....some use it for decking, so I don't think it puts off an oily substance but supposed I could be wrong. I actually just received 2 of the pieces in the mail today and did not expect them till next week, it looks like a really hard piece of plastic actually (actually a lot of commercial cutting boards are made of this stuff too).

Just in case I have an issue with the SeaDeck/GatorStep tho...I ordered a top piece that is slightly textured so even without the SeaDeck, it will look good and work just fine as-is, will just show the 4 screw heads. So if that becomes an issue I can remove the SeaDeck padding.

I will post pictures when done too for a better visual....and you will see it in person at the Lake Norris get together in June

Edited by Infinitysurf
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I'm fairly certain gatorstep or seadek won't stick to hdpe. It's very similar to uhmw, which I work with all the time. It's hard to get painters tape to stick for even a few seconds. I'd consider something else if you can. 

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4 hours ago, onewake09 said:

I'm fairly certain gatorstep or seadek won't stick to hdpe. It's very similar to uhmw, which I work with all the time. It's hard to get painters tape to stick for even a few seconds. I'd consider something else if you can. 

Can you recommend anything that will act as a base for my step so I can install GatorStep to it? I need something sturdy enough to be able to screw it down so it will sandwich the vinyl for one....and also compress my cushion foam down a little bit since the base under vinyl is 3" tall and foam is 3 1/4" or so. I actually did that on purpose so it would put some pressure on the vinyl and not cause wrinkles. Boat goes in next week for the new vinyl, so something I want to get on. I already have the 3/8" piece of HDPE coming....but it was not that expensive so to switch to a better option is not a big deal to me. With shipping I only have $100 into the 3 pieces so far and will use 2 of them for sure, just thinking if it may not stick I may have to re-think the top part, tho I could always glue it since it is "slightly" textured, so glue should bond well if I use the right stuff or if it does not want to stay in place with just the adhesive.

Thanks for the heads up!

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7 hours ago, Infinitysurf said:

Can you recommend anything that will act as a base for my step so I can install GatorStep to it? I need something sturdy enough to be able to screw it down so it will sandwich the vinyl for one....and also compress my cushion foam down a little bit since the base under vinyl is 3" tall and foam is 3 1/4" or so. I actually did that on purpose so it would put some pressure on the vinyl and not cause wrinkles. Boat goes in next week for the new vinyl, so something I want to get on. I already have the 3/8" piece of HDPE coming....but it was not that expensive so to switch to a better option is not a big deal to me. With shipping I only have $100 into the 3 pieces so far and will use 2 of them for sure, just thinking if it may not stick I may have to re-think the top part, tho I could always glue it since it is "slightly" textured, so glue should bond well if I use the right stuff or if it does not want to stay in place with just the adhesive.

Thanks for the heads up!

What about  3/8" aluminum plate?  Race City Steel in Denver would cut it to your exact dimensions, you would just have to router any edges and polish anything exposed.  Shoot me a PM if this is an option, I work closely with them ;)

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55 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

What about  3/8" aluminum plate?  Race City Steel in Denver would cut it to your exact dimensions, you would just have to router any edges and polish anything exposed.  Shoot me a PM if this is an option, I work closely with them ;)

This is actually a good idea. Id use the hdpe everywhere except that top layer. Aluminum can be worked with most carbide cutting tools and it sands quite easily. 

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as an alternative - http://www.emachineshop.com is actually a pretty interesting place to get things done.  Their free CAD software lets you design and quote anything right from your desktop - usually arrives within 2 weeks.  Got brackets done for my boat lift a year ago - was totally impressed by ease of design tool and speed of delivery.

If you look at the number of materials (aluminum, brass, copper, ABS, PVC, Carbon fiber, stainless etc.) it's pretty impressive and they give you a lot of info what will work with what type of material and what not.  May be overkill for your application if you just need a basic plate (which I have also ordered before from http://www.onlinemetal.com ) then this would be another alternative.

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10 minutes ago, lasik said:

We keep a thick bath mat with rubber backing unde the seat and put it over the corner & middle rear seats at the dock or anchored.

Can you provide a link to a product or a picture?  I'd be very interested in seeing this.

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On 3/2/2018 at 6:57 AM, Ndawg12 said:

What about  3/8" aluminum plate?  Race City Steel in Denver would cut it to your exact dimensions, you would just have to router any edges and polish anything exposed.  Shoot me a PM if this is an option, I work closely with them ;)

I would like to look into this option. Looking like my boat will get skins next week or week after and I am building the platform and securing it under the vinyl today, running out to buy a router shortly so I can have back seat ready for them to cover with new skin. I think this sounds like a great idea and I found someone that will make the GatorStep pad I need for the step.....I was wanting to add some strips to the gunnels for when people get onto boat from dock anyway, so can have them made all at same time. After getting the piece of HDPE that I planned for the top which is 12x14 (to overhang an inch on each side), I am thinking that 11x13 will probably be better. Love to chat with you and see what options they could offer on aluminum plate. Long as edges are not sharp (sure they could easily design it that way), think that would look great, GatorStep would stick well and still strong enough to suck down my cushion foam some, I could probably do something a little thinner actually maybe 1/4" since the thinner the better as long as it strong enough and wont bend once I suck it down with screws.

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