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My turn for no start - LONG


MalibuNation

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I custom ordered my 2003 Sunscape 21’ with the LS1 so I'm the only owner.  Motor has been great and always started cold.  I joke that if I get my key near my boat it starts right up.  Well that was true until the summer of 2016.  One day it wouldn't start.  I have 3 batteries and have plenty of cranking power.  It cranked over and over and never fired or chugged.  Next day I went down to the boat and it started right up without any intervention.  Later in the summer of 2016 the same thing happened.  Plenty of cranking power but no fire.  Next day starts without any intervention.  Also I get all gauges so I don’t think it is the lanyard.

Summer of 2017 comes around and things are going well then the same thing happens.  Try to start it and cranks fine but never fires.  Next morning (didn’t try starting it as I wanted it to fail at the dealer) I get a hold of my dealer and bring it into them and of course it starts every time ... starts without any intervention.  We tried it multiple times.  Also it was very hot and humid that day and we kept the engine lid down so it got plenty of hot in there … boat was in 100% sun and we also didn’t get vapor lock.   Ignition is a bit loose so dealer replaced that while I was there.

So I get my big girl pants on and get a fuel pressure tester.  Rest of the summer on the lake it starts fine.  In September of 2017 I have the boat in the driveway and I have a Perko Flush Pro so of course I have the hose connected like I always do when out of the water.  I started it several times over several days.  Then one day it wouldn't start.  This is the 2nd time in 2017.  4th time overall since I've own the boat.  I get the fuel pressure tester out and I have no fuel pressure and don't hear the fuel pump spin up.  The fuel pump is electronic bolted to the block and thus not in the tank.  Next day it starts without any intervention.  Most people I've talked to don't think it is the fuel pump.

I have been working with my dealer they have been great and they are at a loss as to what it is.  They never see any codes when they hook up their test equipment.  I am a long time IT person and I know how hard it is with intermittent problems.  Also it is always helpful for the tech to see the problem happening and this has never happened at my dealer.

Boat has under 600 hours.  One more thing when I say starting cold I mean the first start of the day and during the summer so it's not really that cold.

When the boat runs it is runs fantastic and has no running issues.  I am at the point where I'm scared to invite people over in case it won't start.

I just ordered a simple electrically tester and should be here today but won’t be using it as it is plenty cold here.

Last I’m thinking of getting “MEFI Scan 4” from: https://www.obd2allinone.com/mefiscan.asp

Any ideas and thanks - MN!!

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Yeah I've looked at @tvano no start and we've PMed and emailed back and forth back in 2016.  I haven't eliminated anything but it was my understanding that getting gauges meant it isn't the kill switch.

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I'd check to make sure you have power at the fuel pump next time it is a no go. If there's power, bad pump. I don't think there is an off-board relay for the pump, so it might be the control board.

  • Like 2
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Shawn no.

One more thing is I never smell or see gas in the water or as in the last time while in my driveway any coming out the exhaust.  Would there be a chance I might get a hint of gas if it was electrical and not fuel related?

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First I would make sure there is spark.  If it does it again pull a plug and make sure you've got spark.  If not, then you have no spark and no fuel, that points you back to the helm.  If you have spark, now you can focus on fuel components.

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Seems like spray starting fluid would answer your fuel or no fuel question right away.  If that does it and you have fuel pressure at the pump then start looking at voltage getting to the injectors.  That would mean an intermittent problem between the ECU and the injectors.  Engine issue, not really a marine issue - so maybe a good auto mechanic?

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Quote

 I get the fuel pressure tester out and I have no fuel pressure and don't hear the fuel pump spin up. 

Doesn't the oil pressure switch kill power to the fuel pump?  Maybe intermittent issue with bad switch or loose/damaged wire?

I'd also just replace the fuel pump relay.  Swapping for an intermittent issue might not tell you much and they are relatively cheap.

Edited by oldjeep
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I'd be looking at wire connections and grounds.  Ring terminals in particular can fatigue and you won't know because it can be hidden under the wire insulation.  Wiggle and pull on everything, check all connections.

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Does this year have and ignition control model in or associated the distributor?  That is a great component to cause the symptoms you report, both in boats and cars.  I  had one in our '93 Suburban that was intermittent for almost a year in a daily driver before it suddenly quit 100% leaving us looking for a tow truck. Still have the '93 and on it's 3rd or 4th icm now.

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4 minutes ago, Rednucleus said:

Does this year have and ignition control model in or associated the distributor?  That is a great component to cause the symptoms you report, both in boats and cars.  I  had one in our '93 Suburban that was intermittent for almost a year in a daily driver before it suddenly quit 100% leaving us looking for a tow truck. Still have the '93 and on it's 3rd or 4th icm now.

I don't know.

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Probably an intermittent bad Fuel Pump Relay. As @shawndoggy said, if you swap the two relays, then you will probably see the problem move with the relay. AKA, it'll stop cranking all-together. Then you'll know it's the relay, and an easy fix.

And Yeah, they can be THAT finicky.

Edited by boardjnky4
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8 minutes ago, Rednucleus said:

Does this year have and ignition control model in or associated the distributor?  That is a great component to cause the symptoms you report, both in boats and cars.  I  had one in our '93 Suburban that was intermittent for almost a year in a daily driver before it suddenly quit 100% leaving us looking for a tow truck. Still have the '93 and on it's 3rd or 4th icm now.

Pretty sure that LS1 is a coilpack engine.

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this might not help at all but my indmar 350 mcx has a fuel pump in the fuel tank, and on top of this pump is a plug that over the years had lost connectivity.... sometimes it woudl work sometimes it wouldnt... ended up changing the plug harness and boom no more issues.

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