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Looking at a boat tonight! 2010 23LSV


Ryan1776

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Just my two cents. 

Those gel coat marks will need work.  Accidents happen from all sorts of things.  I got a horrible through the gel gouge (right where three colors pinstripe) when a roller got my boat under a pier and the corner of an I-Beam just caught it.  Towing near a camping site once maneuvering a dead-fall branch somehow ended up wedged under the trailer and scuffed the gel up some.  You use these things and they do get battle scars.  Just don't ignore them.  I had a half-dozen other marks and chips that needed work that summer after about 8 years of ownership.  About $1000 at a good fiberglass shop took care of all that.  And I got a good wetsand and polish as well.

That vinyl is probably about the same amount again to address depending on how picky you are.  It just depends.  Seams that tore that weren't too bad I had steamed and stretched and resewn.  Then they lasted forever after.  That's not bad.  Maybe $100 a cushion from a decent shop.  Redoing whole cushions starts you on the slippery slope.  I did that a few times over the years to address different things from massive slashes in the vinyl to just poor workmanship in the sewing and framing finally getting the better of the material and cushioning.  The only way to know for sure is to get a good marine upholsterer to look it over with you and give you a quote.

That carpet is going to fall down no matter what.  My brand new boat has carpet falling down in places (because they glued it over a 4" protruding lag bolt! hah).  Just address any root cause like that you can see and glue it back.

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I am seeing neglect more than abuse. The vinyl in the first shot is normal where the water pools in the corners of those cushions. Pretty much unavoidable given the  construction process. I have that issue as well but not quite as bad @890 hours. I would fully expect more vinyl issues at a later date because it looks like it has sat out a bit. The fiberglass is easily fixable with the keel a must fix before it gets wet again. The exposed fiberglass needs to get resealed with resin before any water time or it will turn into a sponge and progressively get worse. Crawl under it to confirm there is no other keel damage. Otherwise it just looks dirty and neglected to me. If they are firm on the price at a minimum I would try to get them to fix the keel and the hull scratches/divets. I am guessing @ $1000 to fix bicbw. 

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Not to derail your purchase efforts here, but have you considered other options?  Is this boat on your list for size, or preference of a Malibu over other brands/Models?  I say this because given what you are potentially getting yourself into, and from what you've told us, I think you may have other options out there that may suit your needs and get you more bang for your buck.  Just as an example @ADDICTED2WAKE T22.  Aside from the heater and tower speakers, this checks all your boxes, less hours, better overall condition, Surfgate, ballast system, what appears to be a dialed wave etc.  You might save a couple grand by getting the LSV below asking price, but the amount of work/add ons you plan on doing will bring you about equal to what you potentially could spend on a newer boat.  Link to his ad below:

 

Edited by saxton15
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Good lord you guys, I'm as anal as the next guy about keeping my boat in the best shape possible, you guys are making me feel like a terrible bu owner.  That's right you're hurting my feelings and I'm gonna type at you about it!!  So after 500+ hrs and at least 8 seasons the only thing I think may need attention is the chip in the bow.  I had a similar repair done but it was like 3' long from being beached, it was black just like that, they just gelled it for $150, boat is still floating to this day :whistle:  I had the exact same issues from day 1 with my vinyl.  I band-aided the rear corners for a few years with hh66 vinyl glue until I was ready to redo the whole boat.  Most if not all that bow discoloration will come out with a few hours in the direct sunlight, but will return once covered, rinse and repeat.  It doesn't start to become permanent until the discoloration turns dark purplish to brown.  Its not the gospel but certainly a decent tool guide to accessing a boat value is nadaguides.com.  I would personally classify that boat in the middle of the high and low value, so a 50K asking price is pretty good in my book, especially this time of year when prices creep up.  Doesn't hurt to offer less but I don't think I'd run away either if they didn't budge much.

 

Base Price

$76,900

$43,630

$49,910

Options (Change)

Boat Cover - 20 ft. thru 25 ft.

$190

$215

Depth Sounder

$150

$170

Stereo - AM/FM/CD/Aux Plug-in/Satellite Ready w/4 speakers

$430

$470

Batteries - Dual w/Switch

$150

$170

Fuel Injection

$615

$700

Swim Step - Fiberglass

$205

$235

Cruise Control

$785

$890

Wake-Board Racks

$200

$225

Wake-Board Tower

$970

$1,100

Wake-Board Tower Lights

$605

$690

Wake-Board Tower Speakers

$550

$625

Water Ballast System

$875

$995

Trailer (Change)

2010 Tandem 25 Feet

$2,170

$2,440

Total Price

$76,900

$51,525

$58,835

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21 hours ago, minnmarker said:

I don't think that over paying for the boat now is going to buy you better service in the future.

Not even remotely what I was insinuating. Only asking if they were a reputable company and if they have decent customer service as a whole. Or maybe it's all irrelevant.  

 

Edited by Ryan1776
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Wow a lot to unpack here. 

22 hours ago, Slurpee said:

Those gel coat marks will need work.  Accidents happen from all sorts of things.

22 hours ago, wdr said:

I am seeing neglect more than abuse.

I have the same feeling with regards to this. I don't feel it was purposely beat on. As mentioned it was a one owner boat, over 8 years and 500 hours if it was purposely neglected I feel it would be a lot worse. Also the motor diagnostic and compression test will be a good tell tale sign as well. 

22 hours ago, wdr said:

The vinyl in the first shot is normal where the water pools in the corners of those cushions. Pretty much unavoidable given the  construction process. I have that issue as well but not quite as bad @890 hours. I would fully expect more vinyl issues at a later date because it looks like it has sat out a bit

Interesting about the vinyl and corners.
What other indicators do you see that makes you think it sat out? Just wondering what to look for/at. Or just a general "feel" of the boat? 

22 hours ago, wdr said:

The fiberglass is easily fixable with the keel a must fix before it gets wet again. The exposed fiberglass needs to get resealed with resin before any water time or it will turn into a sponge and progressively get worse. Crawl under it to confirm there is no other keel damage. 

Any way to tell or guesstimate how long that keel chip has been there? Or the extent of the water damage if any at this point? It didn't feel soft or anything around the injury. I'll look harder a the skegs and shaft strut too. 

22 hours ago, Slurpee said:

I had a half-dozen other marks and chips that needed work that summer after about 8 years of ownership

So this isn't abnormal at all. My buddies dad who builds immaculate race cars said, "Real race cars have stone chips." We use these machines as intended, somethings things happen. 

 

I called a local VERY reputable shop and they gave me an estimate of 400-600 to fix JUST that chip. Seems a bit high, but with anything prep work is the cost. Off the trailer, and taping off the entire boat as well. 

21 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

Good lord you guys, I'm as anal as the next guy about keeping my boat in the best shape possible, you guys are making me feel like a terrible bu owner.  That's right you're hurting my feelings and I'm gonna type at you about it!!

:lol: Awesome. Honestly I kinda had the inclining that. It IS a used boat I didn't expect pristine showroom quality here. Just wondering if the imperfections and lack of some of the options if that price point was accurate. And by your NADA spec, they aren't that far off. I would still like to get them to fix the keel at least. 

21 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

 I had the exact same issues from day 1 with my vinyl.  I band-aided the rear corners for a few years with hh66 vinyl glue until I was ready to redo the whole boat.  Most if not all that bow discoloration will come out with a few hours in the direct sunlight, but will return once covered, rinse and repeat.

Day one. Damn.  Someone else in this thread said that the cover laying on the vinyl is also a culprit to this discoloration of the seats. Putting a towel between cover and vinyl could help that. 

21 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

I would personally classify that boat in the middle of the high and low value, so a 50K asking price is pretty good in my book, especially this time of year when prices creep up.  Doesn't hurt to offer less but I don't think I'd run away either if they didn't budge much.

Thank you for this too.  Personally, if I can get them to fix the keel and get me 50 out the door. (2.5k worth of tax and fees) I'd probably pull the trigger. We'll see if that happens. Doubtful, considering the time of year. There will be some guy behind me that won't take up 5 pages of Malibu forums discussing one boat who will pay the 53k and be plenty happy. So we'll see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks. 
We're in the middle of the Detroit boat show and I told the sales guy upfront I'll be interested in what he brings in on trade as well. 

21 hours ago, saxton15 said:

Not to derail your purchase efforts here, but have you considered other options?  Is this boat on your list for size, or preference of a Malibu over other brands/Models?

No worries at all. I have considered other brands, Nautique 230 as well. I like the 23'. I like a lot of the SAN amenities and such. But because there are so many LSVs in the world I can get a touch newer boat for the same money. And there are a lot more to choose from. 
As far as that Axis is concerned. It's a sick boat to be sure. But it's another 7k. 50k has been my absolute highest I've ever wanted to spend. Out the door. I'd rather get the boat optioned as I want right away, but if it takes a few years to get tower speakers and heater. Not going to be hating life. After all, I'm coming from a closed bow 86 Supra! 
I have a new daughter and it doesn't have a bimini either. And frankly I can't see why they get so much money for one. That is a must have off the bat.
Tower speakers are 3k with amps. While the Malibu stock-o speakers apparently aren't great, they're at least wired and I can use them for what they are for now. While this boat has nothing. 
Also, ballast isn't hard and relatively inexpensive all things considered. I can order a kit from Wake makers, or just the pumps as mentioned earlier in this thread and have 910 a side for 500 bucks and a few hours. 


All in all, I absolutely appreciate everyone comments and additions to this thread. Great community and glad I posted. I've received some awesome feedback and learned a lot about these boats in a short time. 

Edited by Ryan1776
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What other indicators do you see that makes you think it sat out? Just wondering what to look for/at. Or just a general "feel" of the boat? - Primarily the general appearance of the dust in the corners/ledges and you will see a lot of junk in the hard to clean bases of the windshield. Some of the chromed pieces look a little "flat" or not as shiny. A big tell will be the fading. If it sat on a lift it will probably be more uniform in that respect instead of under a trailering cover where you would have definitive lines. That will be kind of hard to judge unless there is a sticker or graphic that has been partially removed.

Any way to tell or guesstimate how long that keel chip has been there? Or the extent of the water damage if any at this point? It didn't feel soft or anything around the injury. I'll look harder a the skegs and shaft strut too.- Not really. If it gets pulled and dry bunked after every use there will be time for it to dry so the damage may be a lot less than if it were left in the water for extended periods of time. If there was significant water intrusion/damage there (and I am no expert) I would think that there would be a noticeable difference audibly when the two areas were subjected to a tap test. BICBW Bottom line on this is any experienced glass guy could tell you what issues it has!

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On 2/21/2018 at 2:22 PM, saxton15 said:

Not to derail your purchase efforts here, but have you considered other options?  Is this boat on your list for size, or preference of a Malibu over other brands/Models?  I say this because given what you are potentially getting yourself into, and from what you've told us, I think you may have other options out there that may suit your needs and get you more bang for your buck.  Just as an example @ADDICTED2WAKE T22.  Aside from the heater and tower speakers, this checks all your boxes, less hours, better overall condition, Surfgate, ballast system, what appears to be a dialed wave etc.  You might save a couple grand by getting the LSV below asking price, but the amount of work/add ons you plan on doing will bring you about equal to what you potentially could spend on a newer boat.  Link to his ad below:

 

This guy has a VALID POINT! :)

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 @kerpluxalI just wanted to ask you a few questions on how you did your ballast upgrade you talked about.

On 2/20/2018 at 7:15 PM, kerpluxal said:
  • Pump to Hard tank and to bottom of piggy backed bag with a y fitting (a tee fitting will not work...)
  • Hard Tank vent to bottom of piggy backed bag
  • Top of piggy backed bag to vent.

So am I assuming that with the "Y" you started to fill both the hard tank and the bag, NOT wait for the tank to overflow into the bag. I like that. 
But will the pumps fill the bag from the bottom even with the increasing head pressure? I didn't think that the aerator style pumps would do that? Obviously they will! 
What size bags did you use? I notice on wakemakers, the custom piggy bag ones are 910lbs but they don't offer those without the piggy back system.....

Thinking out loud....
Then from the vent of the hard tank to the 2nd bottom port of the bag so when the tank fills it'll keep pushing water into the bag as well as divert volume from the full tank to the bag at the Y fitting. 

So that covers fill. 
Is there anything special on drain? Or because there's two lines to the bottom of the bag back into the hard tank it drains well enough without mods? How much water is left in the bags usually? 

One last question. You mentioned changing the 3/4" line from the pump to tank to 1 1/8" what about the other lines? Did you just keep 3/4" as there are two of them for fill/drain now? 
Drain-I'm assuming you had to change from bottom of hard tank to pump to 1 1/8" as well. Or did you just change fill pumps? 
Sorry... that was more than one question! 

 

Ryan

Edited by Ryan1776
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On 2/24/2018 at 1:08 PM, ADDICTED2WAKE said:

This guy has a VALID POINT! :)

That IS a sick boat man! 

Edited by Ryan1776
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Save yourself the frustration and look elsewhere man. 50k is alot for boat that needs that much work. Ive never owned a malibu, but my boat before my new axis needed alot work like this one to bring it up to the condition that I was comfortable with. I felt like I was always trying to fix or repair something. Now i just get to spend lots of money on stereo upgrades, ballast bags, boards, and GAS! Just my two cents.

 

Jason

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33 minutes ago, onewake09 said:

Save yourself the frustration and look elsewhere man. 50k is alot for boat that needs that much work

It does need some work, no arguments. However, I DID confirm they will be fixing the keel crack/issue at that price. So that was a huge thing. Yes there are some other ones, but you could argue they're cosmetic. All well above water line. Not though the gel and you can't see them from 5' away. 
The two rear seats, seems like EVERYONE has that exact same issue, even a year old. They already fixed the center seat that was screwed up. 

So I'm looking at it like this. Ballast upgrades are cheap. Tower/sub not so much. I DO have a wetsounds 12" with box, two PRO60's from my old boat that I haven't decided if I'll sell with it or not. All the work I can do myself as I've already done it. 
Looking around onlyinboards and boat trader, the well is pretty dry right now. So looking somewhere else may not be in the cards. 
I'm open both Nautique and Malibu. I'm really set on the 23' boats. They outsell everything for a reason. But as I've said, there isn't much out there any more. And for better or worse I'm kinda stuck on the flagship boats. 
 

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On 2/21/2018 at 12:22 PM, saxton15 said:

Not to derail your purchase efforts here, but have you considered other options?  Is this boat on your list for size, or preference of a Malibu over other brands/Models?  I say this because given what you are potentially getting yourself into, and from what you've told us, I think you may have other options out there that may suit your needs and get you more bang for your buck.  Just as an example @ADDICTED2WAKE T22.  Aside from the heater and tower speakers, this checks all your boxes, less hours, better overall condition, Surfgate, ballast system, what appears to be a dialed wave etc.  You might save a couple grand by getting the LSV below asking price, but the amount of work/add ons you plan on doing will bring you about equal to what you potentially could spend on a newer boat.  Link to his ad below:

 

@Ryan1776 Gotta put this back in your hands and thoughts, great boat, look at the advancements in technology, really surfs amazing better than a lot of other 23s on the market presently, SURFGATE!!!!! Go sit in one than a 23 there it doesn't feel much smaller. @saxton15 makes great point. Just trying to help.

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15 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

It does need some work, no arguments. However, I DID confirm they will be fixing the keel crack/issue at that price. So that was a huge thing. Yes there are some other ones, but you could argue they're cosmetic. All well above water line. Not though the gel and you can't see them from 5' away. 
The two rear seats, seems like EVERYONE has that exact same issue, even a year old. They already fixed the center seat that was screwed up. 

So I'm looking at it like this. Ballast upgrades are cheap. Tower/sub not so much. I DO have a wetsounds 12" with box, two PRO60's from my old boat that I haven't decided if I'll sell with it or not. All the work I can do myself as I've already done it. 
Looking around onlyinboards and boat trader, the well is pretty dry right now. So looking somewhere else may not be in the cards. 
I'm open both Nautique and Malibu. I'm really set on the 23' boats. They outsell everything for a reason. But as I've said, there isn't much out there any more. And for better or worse I'm kinda stuck on the flagship boats. 
 

Where are you located? I see three  axis boats, all with surfgate on Only Inboards for less than 55.

 

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2014-Axis-T22-Includes-New-Trailer--for-sale-Annapolis-Maryland-71587.aspx

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2015-Axis-T22-Red-Black-for-sale-Corinth-Texas-74915.aspx

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2015-Axis-T22-for-sale-Hammond-Indiana-79797.aspx (yes i know this color combo isnt that great)

 

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6 minutes ago, alpensurf23 said:

@Ryan1776 Gotta put this back in your hands and thoughts, great boat, look at the advancements in technology, really surfs amazing better than a lot of other 23s on the market presently, SURFGATE!!!!! Go sit in one than a 23 there it doesn't feel much smaller. @saxton15 makes great point. Just trying to help.

No man! I appreciate it! But its another 7 grand. Technically 47-48 out the door was my personal limit. I've already exceeding it. That's another 63 a month. Which puts me 100/month over my personal set budget I wanted to stay at. At that rate I could just "might as well" my way to a new one for 20 years and pay 650 a month. 
And I know surf gate and all that. I'm not a surfer first. That's NOT my go to. It's fun but I'm a wakeboarder. That's my passion. I'm not very good but I'm trying! lol 

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ahopkins22LSV
20 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

No man! I appreciate it! But its another 7 grand. Technically 47-48 out the door was my personal limit. I've already exceeding it. That's another 63 a month. Which puts me 100/month over my personal set budget I wanted to stay at. At that rate I could just "might as well" my way to a new one for 20 years and pay 650 a month. 
And I know surf gate and all that. I'm not a surfer first. That's NOT my go to. It's fun but I'm a wakeboarder. That's my passion. I'm not very good but I'm trying! lol 

Did you reach out to @ADDICTED2WAKE to see if his price is firm? Going by the title of his sales ad, "Motivated Seller", I am guessing he is not. And you won't know until you ask.

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28 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

No man! I appreciate it! But its another 7 grand. Technically 47-48 out the door was my personal limit. I've already exceeding it. That's another 63 a month. Which puts me 100/month over my personal set budget I wanted to stay at. At that rate I could just "might as well" my way to a new one for 20 years and pay 650 a month. 
And I know surf gate and all that. I'm not a surfer first. That's NOT my go to. It's fun but I'm a wakeboarder. That's my passion. I'm not very good but I'm trying! lol 

Right on but FYI at some point you will want to surf and more important Bikinis like to surf as its less impact. I hope you take bikinis under consideration.. :cheers: Surfgate makes it so much faster to transition from wakeboard to surf and vice versa.

Edited by alpensurf23
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I can tell you, 2-3 years from now you won't regret having a little newer boat that does not have hull or seat issues.  You have the sound system in your old boat ready to toss up on the tower, so you have a project ready.  Figure you just need a bimini to get your season going, instead of gel repairs, seat fixes etc?  Addicted2Wake is in Michigan and from your original listing I think you are too, can't hurt to go check it out and talk price.  Last thing, I'd buy a TMC member boat all day over a dealer.  

Again, just trying to give you options. 

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3 minutes ago, saxton15 said:

I can tell you, 2-3 years from now you won't regret having a little newer boat that does not have hull or seat issues.  You have the sound system in your old boat ready to toss up on the tower, so you have a project ready.  Figure you just need a bimini to get your season going, instead of gel repairs, seat fixes etc?  Addicted2Wake is in Michigan and from your original listing I think you are too, can't hurt to go check it out and talk price.  Last thing, I'd buy a TMC member boat all day over a dealer.  

Again, just trying to give you options. 

@saxton15 Again spot on :)! @Ryan1776 please take under consideration we are trying to help protect your investment, save you time, money, and of any added frustration an older unknown boat might have. :cheers:

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Such an interesting thread.  Thanks to all for contributing!

I am in the same price point, started off at 40 - 45 and now think my top is 50.  Looking at the same types of boats, and wanting something that I don't have to buy and then turn around and put 3k into a bimini, tower speakers and a fakegate.

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3 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Did you reach out to @ADDICTED2WAKE to see if his price is firm? Going by the title of his sales ad, "Motivated Seller", I am guessing he is not. And you won't know until you ask.

I did not. Seems we could be too far off. I guess I could, though. Yes, I am in Michigan, about 20min from him. :lol:

 

1 hour ago, alpensurf23 said:

@saxton15 Again spot on :)! @Ryan1776 please take under consideration we are trying to help protect your investment, save you time, money, and of any added frustration an older unknown boat might have. :cheers:

I know you guys are! No worries on my end. 

 

52 minutes ago, Five Cent Worth said:

Such an interesting thread.  Thanks to all for contributing!

I am in the same price point, started off at 40 - 45 and now think my top is 50.  Looking at the same types of boats, and wanting something that I don't have to buy and then turn around and put 3k into a bimini, tower speakers and a fakegate.

This has been harder than buying a house for me. 

Edited by Ryan1776
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On 2/22/2018 at 8:39 AM, Ryan1776 said:

 

Day one. Damn.  Someone else in this thread said that the cover laying on the vinyl is also a culprit to this discoloration of the seats. Putting a towel between cover and vinyl could help that. 

 

You can also pop up the ski pylon to keep the cover from resting on the vinyl.

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