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Looking at a boat tonight! 2010 23LSV


Ryan1776

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3 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

Well, I didn't see a receiver on the deck. So I'm guessing paddle wheel. Or do they hide the receiver on these under the dash? 

Good info on the prop. Thank you! 

I'm not sure about the stock location on a 2010 but the PP is kind of like the prop.  Unless you're on a river you'll probably want to upgrade it eventually.  The paddle wheel worked fine for skiing and wakeboarding but it was a little inconsistent at surf speeds.  

My paddlewheel could hold +/-  1mph while surfing but the gps holds +/- .25mph.  

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Sales guy said it was under the dash at the helm. But I’ve always seen them on top of the deck. So I’ll have to confirm. But good info on the holding ability with each. +/-1mph is too course for surfing for sure. 

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I have never had a complaint on the ability of it to hold a set speed for cruising, boarding or surfing even on the river. GPS verified accurate speed hold with in 1mph which is close enough for the riders and abilities of my crew.

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30 minutes ago, wdr said:

I have never had a complaint on the ability of it to hold a set speed for cruising, boarding or surfing even on the river. GPS verified accurate speed hold with in 1mph which is close enough for the riders and abilities of my crew.

This^^^. I also have a paddle wheel cruise and it works well enough for me to not have the need to upgrade to gps. 

As for the hose size, I'm not sure if the pumps changed but i know the hose size did. I do know that i have 1 1/8 hose running off my reversible Johnson's for my lockers and the same pumps run my bow sac with a sea-lect diverter valve. Since it is a temporary set up i used 3/4 hose since i had some Laying around. The lockers fill faster than the bow. I don't understand the physics of it but the only difference is the hose size. Maybe someone else can chime in on if anything else changed and/or why the hose size makes a difference if nothing else changed. My guess is some sort of back pressure. 

Edited by isellacuras
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9 hours ago, isellacuras said:

This^^^. I also have a paddle wheel cruise and it works well enough for me to not have the need to upgrade to gps

Ok good to know! 

 

10 hours ago, isellacuras said:

I don't understand the physics of it but the only difference is the hose size. Maybe someone else can chime in on if anything else changed and/or why the hose size makes a difference if nothing else changed. My guess is some sort of back pressure.

I did some more thinking and you're right. There's also friction loss. Also it would seem almost all pump manufactures design the pump to be utilized with a larger pipe than the inlet/outlet due to these fluid dynamics. So by allowing the pump a larger pipe to flow though that can in turn produce more volume due to the loss of head pressure on the pump itself. Filing and emptying the sacs faster. 

Seems right in theory! :lol:

 

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10 hours ago, wdr said:

Mine is a paddle wheel. The actual paddle wheel assembly is right behind the left side of the gas tank. You can see it here on the right of the photo. Depth gauge and water temp on the left.5922e7c6b281a_image_url-14628-13582778941.jpg.ba5679a461f441b7e42f82047d81c47b.jpg

Obviously time for me to detail that area and even wipe down the actual vdrive and  tranny 

what did you do prep for the shot or was boat brand new at time or are you just that OCD

shame is I just changed the fluids and was thinking I was sorely in need of attention, i should  have grabbed a wet rag!

whats the blue line,cord, cable?

Edited by granddaddy55
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Wakemakers makes a PnP piggieback sustem for this. Installed it on my 2008. Takes forever to fill/empty, but it beats the heck out of digging the pumps out and hoping your cig lighter power sources are working  

Couple pointers:  

Make sure the cig lighter power sources are both working!!!  In my 2008, I had to have them replaced a couple times. If they aren’t working then you have no power for the ballast pumps  

 

Plan on replacing those actuators on the wedge AT LEAST once every two years and more likely once a year. That’s the frequency I was at with my 2008. 

You’re going to need a suck gate system to surf this boat and you’ll need the fat sacks for weight to surf.  If not, the sweet spot is smaller than the board you’re riding on. With the right weight and suck gate, it surfs quite nicely for a wake board boat  

this motor is reliable, but will work way to hard without the right prop. Call acme props directly and tell them what your setup is and they’ll tell you what prop to get.  Those guys are ninjas when it comes to their prop knowledge.

have a mechanic inspect the prop strut and prop shaft.  Don’t want to inherit someone else’s bad driving 

 

good luck!!  

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One more thing. Assuming it’s the same as the 2008, converting your speed to GPS literally will take you 5 mins. There’s a GPS kit for sale out there that plugs directly into a wiring harness under your dash. It’s super easy and if I remember correctly, is not very expensive to do. I did it with my 2008 and was surprised how easy it is. Speed consistency at the low speeds has more to do with the motor/prop set up you have and not the source of this data (paddle wheel vs GPS). 

 

Youll want GPS if there’s any current at all with the body of water your on. 

Edited by M235Ozark
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18 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

Wakemakers makes a PnP piggieback sustem for this. Installed it on my 2008. Takes forever to fill/empty, but it beats the heck out of digging the pumps out and hoping your cig lighter power sources are working

I like their kits. 910lbs a side for 600$ hard to beat.
Can you define that time? Just looking for an approximate? Like 30min? For sure better than throwing pumps over.  Very interesting about the cig power points. Surprised they don't run separate circuits?
 

 

18 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

Plan on replacing those actuators on the wedge AT LEAST once every two years and more likely once a year. That’s the frequency I was at with my 2008. 

Honestly, that is outrageous. I hope I have better luck....

 

18 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

this motor is reliable, but will work way to hard without the right prop. Call acme props directly and tell them what your setup is and they’ll tell you what prop to get.  Those guys are ninjas when it comes to their prop knowledge.

Totally on board with Acme. They are definitely on point. 

 

18 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

have a mechanic inspect the prop strut and prop shaft.  Don’t want to inherit someone else’s bad driving 

Boat is coming from a dealer and one owner who had all work done at said dealer. Should be pretty good on that end. But still. Good point.   

 

13 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

One more thing. Assuming it’s the same as the 2008, converting your speed to GPS literally will take you 5 mins.

http://nauticlaugic.com/nl4.html this company I assume. Pretty cheap upgrade. And while my lake is fed by a river system it's a 260 acre lake. Not much noticeable current. 

Edited by Ryan1776
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53 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

Obviously time for me to detail that area and even wipe down the actual vdrive and  tranny 

what did you do prep for the shot or was boat brand new at time or are you just that OCD

shame is I just changed the fluids and was thinking I was sorely in need of attention, i should  have grabbed a wet rag!

whats the blue line,cord, cable?

Thanks OCD. That shot was @ 500 hrs at 860 hrs now and just as clean. The blue cable is the shift cable it sits on top of the fuel tank and runs under the floor and comes up behind the sub and up into the the shift assembly. The “Y” valve for then reversible Johnson pump is in the corner on the SS plate. It has since been pulled and another Johnson plumbed in up front to fill the bow 750. Even with my small crew pulling up the seat to turn the valve was still kind of a hassle, no to mention more time consuming. If I would of known then what I know now I would not of plumbed in the other aerator style pump you see (bottom right) when I did. Glacially slow to fill.

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If you’re going to spend $ on a ballast upgrade, give some thought to installing a reversible pump system. It’s going to cost a bit more than a piggyback setup but your fill and empty times will be 5-6 minutes. It’s definitely worth the cost.

I don’t know what the piggyback times are but those setups are never mentioned without someone saying how slow they are.

We’re running our 2008 on paddle wheel with no problems, and also prefer listing it for surfing since you can still play 10-15’ back of the platform that way.

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1.  Time filling/draining : No, not 30 mins. More like 10-12mins. Not really that big of a deal, just a lot slower than the 5 mins of some of the newer systems. Plus there is no auto off system, so if you’re emptying you have to stay with boat until it’s done so you can turn it off.  

2.  Actuators: It is ridiculous, but it’s what I experienced.   I used my power wedge constantly. 80% of the time we spent in my 2008 was spent surfing/wakeboarding. 

3. Mechanic:   I would still take it to a completely independent mechanic (one that knows Vdrives).  If that boat is being sold on consignment, the dealership won’t sell a new boat until that one sells (assuming the original owner is upgrading). If it’s actually owned by the dealer, then they still have motivation to get it off their lot. I’m not saying your dealer is doing something wrong, but there is a clear conflict of interest for the dealer. Inheriting a problem boat could cost you thousands.  I speak from experience!!

 

4.  GPS:  that’s the exact kit I used. My body of water does have current. Plus I kept breaking my paddle wheel when pulling my boat onto my boat lift bunks and just got sick of replacing it. 

Edited by M235Ozark
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34 minutes ago, NWBU said:

If you’re going to spend $ on a ballast upgrade, give some thought to installing a reversible pump system. It’s going to cost a bit more than a piggyback setup but your fill and empty times will be 5-6 minutes. It’s definitely worth the cost

Ok maybe this is why I'm confused here. What pumps do these era boats use? Do they use those Tsunami aerator type pumps factory?? For some reason I wasn't getting that. I thought they used the Jabsco ballast puppy pumps. So if that's the upgrade you mean, reversible positive displacement pumps the actual pump is far more effective than hose diameter. So how many through hull feed points are there? Or is there just one big one that they all share? Pump upgrades would make far more sense than anything. If I remember 2012 was the upgrade to better ballast systems? 

EDIT-it seem they always used areator type pumps. Kinda surprised by that .

Even so 10-12 min is acceptable. Hell by the time we get to the starting area, get the ropes and boards ready. That's about 10min anyway. And now the boat is warm. Really would probably leave the ballast full during the day anyway. Sitting in the sandbar or whatever. 

33 minutes ago, M235Ozark said:

If that boat is being sold on consignment, the dealership won’t sell a new boat until that one sells (assuming the original owner is upgrading).

Great point. And I know the original owner is upgrading to a MXZ. But I believe they already bought. From what I understand. 

Edited by Ryan1776
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Pirhana aerator pumps with 3/4” hose. There are 4 fill pumps. The 2 fill pumps for the rear hard tanks you can see in the picture above and the bow and center pumps are under the front bilge cover between the center tank and the fuel tank. Tank fill times are about 4:00 minutes.

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The stock tanks are aerator pumps for all Malibu’s, even to this day. By reversible pumps, I meant adding those as extra pumps to fill the locker fat sacs, rather than using a piggyback setup off the stock tank fill and drain system.

They would have dedicated thru-hulls and run on separate switches so that all ballast on the boat is full around the same time. Some will run them off the boats T-plug holes too so they don’t have to drill new holes.

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Got it. Thanks to you both. 

Would it not be worth upgrading the aerator pumps to Jabsco and then piggy backing? Would save extra holes and work? Even for just the rear to tanks. 

Or are these direct replacement pumps the way to go. https://www.wakemakers.com/shurflo-piranha-1100-aerator-ballast-pump.html
Considering that's what the 2012+ comes with. Upgrade the lines to 1 1/8" and let it go. How much effort is it to fish the lines? PITA or doable? 
I would get an adapter and hose clamp the 3/4" to the new 1 1/8" line and use the old line to fish in the new. Seems fairly straight forward. But probably not. 

Edited by Ryan1776
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re doing the stock hoses would be a PITA. The hoses are routed through the boat like a crazy maze. I know that's not a project I'd want to tackle. Like NWBU said, plumbing in reversibles is really the way to go. It's a little more money but well worth it in the long run. You can click a switch and fill the bags while the stock tanks are filling. Another big advantage aside from speed  is the bags suck pancake flat when you drain them which isn't the case with passive draining piggy back system. 

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12 minutes ago, isellacuras said:

Another big advantage aside from speed  is the bags suck pancake flat when you drain them which isn't the case with passive draining piggy back system. 

That's a good point for sure. I'm just not keen on drilling the hull. 

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IMO, for the “stock tanks” I really don’t think it would be worth the money and effort to swap the factory aerator pumps for reversible. The fill time would improve, but not $263.00 a pump faster. And as already stated a real PITA to do the job. If you are serious about surfing, what you will want to do is plumb in a reversible pump(s). For my 750 to fill max and the 1100 to fill to what I am guessing is 900ish still takes longer to fill than the MLS so I am not really loosing any time waiting for the MLS to fill. Same can be said for draining everything. Some guys have plumbed in the piggy back style set up, to each his own. I wouldn’t stress drilling the holes. So long as you plan it out, check twice and then drill you will good to go. There is a lot of experience on here to help you through the install if you decide to go that route.

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3 minutes ago, wdr said:

There is a lot of experience on here to help you through the install if you decide to go that route.

Thanks man. I do appreciate it. And that's a fair point as well against re pulling all the lines. 

This is going to be a dumb question, but since the stock style pumps are not reversible, how does the fill and drain sequence work? Is there a spot on the site that shows it? A schematic somewhere?
I'm sure there isn't two pumps per tank.... 

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I don’t know how much faster the newer 1100 gph Pirhana would be over the factory ones we have, but for 46.00 a pop you might want to buy just one and swap out the easiest to reach to compare it to the stock one. If it is that much better you can always buy the other 3 later. I am betting you probably would only have to swap the cartridge and splice in the new wires close to the pump. That would be an easy job regardless for the the fill pumps. The back 2 drain pumps would be the challenging ones to do.

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2 minutes ago, wdr said:

The back 2 drain pumps would be the challenging ones to do.

Ah ok... you've started to answer my question. So there are separate fill and drain pumps. So the boat with 4 tanks has 8 pumps?

And I 100% agree. Swap some of the easiest and time it. 

Edited by Ryan1776
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