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rushman

Synthetic oil in Monsoon...Your Thoughts?

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rushman

I know there has been threads on this before but I can't seem to locate them. I was wondering your thoughts out there with regards to synthetic oil instead of the "normal" stuff. It seems to me to make sense, since the boat investment is so big and the oil price is negligable. I realize that they are not recommended until after approx. 100 hours. I have an 2003 Sportster LX with a 2004 340 hp Monsoon (long story) and I have now about 105 hrs on the new engine and will be changing it at winterization in probably about 10 more hours. I use the boat primarily for barefooting (almost always) so I am running it 38 to 42 mph OFTEN. If I was to use synthetic oil, I would still plan to change every year and/or every 50 to 60 hours.

What are your thoughts. Is it a good investment?, is it a waste of money?, Would I notice any performance difference? and do you think it would increase the amount of hours that I would be able to put on the engine? I plan on keeping this one for awhile. It works awesome for what I do and can't see myself switching anytime soon. I love the boat!! Thanks for your replies.

Kevin

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JAGMAN
What are your thoughts. Is it a good investment?, is it a waste of money?, Would I notice any performance difference? and do you think it would increase the amount of hours that I would be able to put on the engine? I plan on keeping this one for awhile. It works awesome for what I do and can't see myself switching anytime soon. I love the boat!! Thanks for your replies.

Kevin

Good investment? For me yes. Performance difference? I didn't notice any. More hours on engine? I would think so.

Now for the long winded info. I just switched my Monsoon 340 over at 100 hours. I spent HOURS reading online to find out what oil type and brand was going to be the best. Here is what I found. I picked up Mobil 1 15W-50 and brought it home, then started reading online. Mobil 1 for cars does not meet the requirements that are listed in the Malibu and Indmar owners manuals (specifically the CI/H/G-4). I am sure that M1 would be fine, but I wanted to find an oil that met all the requirements. That brought me to diesel oils, which is where the CI ratings are found. I wanted synthetic, and I wanted to be able to buy it locally. That led me to Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 (which was impossible to find locally) and Shell Rotella Synthetic 5W-40 which can be found at Napa and Wallmart of all places.

Bottom line I read on Mobil and Shell's websites and found that those oils were specifically designed to replace 15W-40 non-synth oils. That and they have all the ratings that the manual asks for.

Here is the quote from the Indmar Manual:

Synthetic Oil

Synthetic oil that meets our requirements of 15W40 and

API SL/SJ/CI-4, CH-4, CG-4 is acceptable to use after

100 hours of operation with the recommended oil. The

use of synthetic oil does not change the requirement of

50 hour oil change intervals.

The best part about the Shell Rotella Synthetic is the price. About $14 for a gallon, which is significantly cheaper that Mobil 1. Personally if I could have found the Delvac 1 locally I'd be using that, but I am not going to order it.

Anyway, like I said, I use Rotella, its synthetic (there is non-synth Rotella too, so get the correct stuff), its cheap, and the 5W-40 rating should work well during the heat of summer as well on those cool autumn starts.

YMMV.

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andyb

I changed to Mobil 1 in my Hammy at 110 hours. Seems quieter - maybe the old oil was getting tired.

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electricjohn

Now that the API-SM oils are out, more should meet the Cx-4 requirement. Sure, syn oils will probaly make your engine last longer, but you will have a world of other problems before a lube wear issue is ever a problem, especially with all of the electronic parts on todays engines which deteriorate with heat and long (winter) idle periods. Test show that SM rated dino oils lube and prevent wear just as good as syn. No oil today is going to break down or deplete it's additive package in 50 hrs, not even if all 50 were @ WOT.

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88Skier

I just swithced my 03 Sporty 310 carb over to Amsoil 15-40 deisel/marine oil. I have noticed no difference over the Valvoline 15-40 I've always used but, believe the synthetic to be better for the long haul.

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hbrew

I also switched to Amsoil 15-40 deisel/marine oil last fall. I think it will be worth it in the long run.

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VinRLX

Bruce, do I understand that you've noticed no other differences? Sound of motor, WOT RPM, etc?

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88Skier
Bruce, do I understand that you've noticed no other differences? Sound of motor, WOT RPM, etc?

So far after about 22 hours, I don't see any difference. I've never heard any engine noise but, it's a loud boat. WOT RPM is the same between 5100 and 5200 depending on weather. I tuned it at the same time, so I figure the better idle is due to that. I was sold on it due to supposedly better lubrication qualities and less sludge build up in the engine. It costs a little more than twice what Valvoline costs, about $6.75/qt. I run it in my trucks, too.

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DNA'er

I have been using Valvoline semi-synthetic 15-W40 since my SS LXI was new. I figured it is getting the dino oil that Indmar wants for the break in period, but also the adhesion properties of synthetic that help with cold startups. To me this sounded like the best of both worlds. 100 hours, runs flawlessly and burns no oil.

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RTS
I was sold on it due to supposedly better lubrication qualities and less sludge build up in the engine.

It is my understanding that there will be no sludge build up with true synthetic oil. That's the reason I use it in all my vehicles, including the boat. The sludge/no sludge over an extended period makes it worth the additional cost to me. I tend to keep vehicles/boats a long time.

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Malibudude

I use synthetics in all my vehicles and truly believe in the qualities of it. However, in my boat I see going synthetic as a WOM because I change it every season or 50 hours and that’s just not enough time to worry about sludge build up. I did run synthetic one year after the 100 hours but honestly I noticed no difference in that short of duration. Although a boat that only runs on private ski lakes may have a tendency to have build up than ones run are lakes for longer durations.

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response LX

What are your thoughts. Is it a good investment?, is it a waste of money?, Would I notice any performance difference? and do you think it would increase the amount of hours that I would be able to put on the engine? I plan on keeping this one for awhile. It works awesome for what I do and can't see myself switching anytime soon. I love the boat!! Thanks for your replies.

Kevin

Good investment? For me yes. Performance difference? I didn't notice any. More hours on engine? I would think so.

Now for the long winded info. I just switched my Monsoon 340 over at 100 hours. I spent HOURS reading online to find out what oil type and brand was going to be the best. Here is what I found. I picked up Mobil 1 15W-50 and brought it home, then started reading online. Mobil 1 for cars does not meet the requirements that are listed in the Malibu and Indmar owners manuals (specifically the CI/H/G-4). I am sure that M1 would be fine, but I wanted to find an oil that met all the requirements. That brought me to diesel oils, which is where the CI ratings are found. I wanted synthetic, and I wanted to be able to buy it locally. That led me to Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 (which was impossible to find locally) and Shell Rotella Synthetic 5W-40 which can be found at Napa and Wallmart of all places.

Bottom line I read on Mobil and Shell's websites and found that those oils were specifically designed to replace 15W-40 non-synth oils. That and they have all the ratings that the manual asks for.

Here is the quote from the Indmar Manual:

Synthetic Oil

Synthetic oil that meets our requirements of 15W40 and

API SL/SJ/CI-4, CH-4, CG-4 is acceptable to use after

100 hours of operation with the recommended oil. The

use of synthetic oil does not change the requirement of

50 hour oil change intervals.

The best part about the Shell Rotella Synthetic is the price. About $14 for a gallon, which is significantly cheaper that Mobil 1. Personally if I could have found the Delvac 1 locally I'd be using that, but I am not going to order it.

Anyway, like I said, I use Rotella, its synthetic (there is non-synth Rotella too, so get the correct stuff), its cheap, and the 5W-40 rating should work well during the heat of summer as well on those cool autumn starts.

YMMV.

Whats your thoughts on Mobil1 5w-30 synthetic oil? Its API service SL/CF. I found it in Wal-mart also, but they dont seem to stock any 15w-40 or even 5w-40.

Another question- whats your thoughts on Esso XD-3 15W-40 heavy duty engine oil(diesel) API service CI-4/SL? I know its not synthetic, but I can get it cheap. I heard diesel oil's contain more detergents in them than gasoline engine oil? Would I hurt anything by using it?

thanks

Doug

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Gordo

In my opinion, if you change your oil every 50 hours, synthetic is an overkill - too much $. If you use Pennzoil 15-40W (or any oil that meets API CH-4+), you are doing as good as it gets.

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Gary T

Thanks for the great info on the oils. I am a synthetic fanatic in my cars and never cared for any Pennzoil products since their oil was parafin based and left unacceptable sludge inside the engine. I agree with the Mobil 1 15-50 elimination and have been looking into Rotella T 5-40 synthetic for our 06 8.1 liter. Indmar suggests not using synthetic until after the first 100 hrs. which is OK. After seeing how dirty the oil was at 50 hrs of use, I question if 40 hrs may be more beneficial even with synthetic. I have emailed Shell to see what their comments are other than what their (Rotella's) marine forum state.

On another note, check out the oil filter study http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html it is quite interesting. I am now using Baldwin Hastings filters and considering Fleetguard filters if I can find them (these are usually found at trucking supply shops, not local auto parts dealers). I will not buy Fram oil filters again..

On another note, the comments on the internet about Amsoil and their fertilizer diet and other wonder products make you think before spending on what you are really getting. I dont think I would buy any Amsoil product

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88Skier
On another note, the comments on the internet about Amsoil and their fertilizer diet and other wonder products make you think before spending on what you are really getting. I dont think I would buy any Amsoil product

Would you elaborate?

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mrothwell
Thanks for the great info on the oils. I am a synthetic fanatic in my cars and never cared for any Pennzoil products since their oil was parafin based and left unacceptable sludge inside the engine. I agree with the Mobil 1 15-50 elimination and have been looking into Rotella T 5-40 synthetic for our 06 8.1 liter. Indmar suggests not using synthetic until after the first 100 hrs. which is OK. After seeing how dirty the oil was at 50 hrs of use, I question if 40 hrs may be more beneficial even with synthetic. I have emailed Shell to see what their comments are other than what their (Rotella's) marine forum state.

You did change the oil at 20 hours, didn't you? Isn't that what is called for? After that, then 50 hours should be fine.

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Gary T

Yes, the original oil change was at 27 hrs, I am switching to a 5-40 synthetic either Shell Rotella T Syn or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel. I still would like to know why marine engines need high viscosity oil when they operate at such low temps, unless the bottom end are built with much looser tolorances than a auto or truck engine.. My previoius Hallett with a 460 I bought in 1976 new and upon several rebuilds over the 30 years I owned it had significant hourglassing of the cylinders, which I believe due to not reaching high enough operationg temperatures to allow the block to expand properly.

Just one of the many outstanding and hard to believe Amsoil products can be found at

http://www.oilsandlube.com/altrumsupplements.htm

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pup

Gary T

Fleetguard is part of Cummins engine co. Cummins engines leave the factory with Fleetguard . You should be able to get them through any Cummins dealer. Peterbilt, KW, Volvo, IH use Cummins engines & should be able to get you filters.

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Gary T

In as much as I hate to say it, I spoke at length with a shell oil "expert" in Houston about Rotella T Syn in lieu of Pennzoil Marine 15-40. The person was very much in favor of using the Pennzoil marine because of the corrosion inhibitors adn "stickiness additives" and had many other good things to say about it. He also mentioned a recent article in Hot Rod regarding the SM oils and how the older flat tapped (non roller) cam engines are prematurely wearing when using the SM's. This marine oil vs. automotive syn. may need further thought, especially when the engine is still under warranty, even if you use fogging oil for winterization.

ADDED 10-20-06 - Shell owns Pennzoil and I would venture to say want you to buy Penn marine

Edited by Gary T

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88Skier

Corosion inhibitors was part of the selling points of the Amsoil deisel/marine 15-40.

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WakeGirl
Yes, the original oil change was at 27 hrs, I am switching to a 5-40 synthetic either Shell Rotella T Syn or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel. I still would like to know why marine engines need high viscosity oil when they operate at such low temps, unless the bottom end are built with much looser tolorances than a auto or truck engine.. My previoius Hallett with a 460 I bought in 1976 new and upon several rebuilds over the 30 years I owned it had significant hourglassing of the cylinders, which I believe due to not reaching high enough operationg temperatures to allow the block to expand properly.

Just one of the many outstanding and hard to believe Amsoil products can be found at

http://www.oilsandlube.com/altrumsupplements.htm

;)

As for Amsoil, I can't speak for the other products, but we ran Amsoil in an old Mustang 289 that had an engine with high miles. It took a few oil changes to really see any difference in performance, but it did get better gas mileage after a bit. When we eventually did the teardown to rebuild the motor, it was spotless inside. No sludge at all & the wear on the engine looked really good (we just tore it down because we wanted to build it). YMMV

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newone
In as much as I hate to say it, I spoke at length with a shell oil "expert" in Houston about Rotella T Syn in lieu of Pennzoil Marine 15-40. The person was very much in favor of using the Pennzoil marine because of the corrosion inhibitors adn "stickiness additives" and had many other good things to say about it. He also mentioned a recent article in Hot Rod regarding the SM oils and how the older flat tapped (non roller) cam engines are prematurely wearing when using the SM's. This marine oil vs. automotive syn. may need further thought, especially when the engine is still under warranty, even if you use fogging oil for winterization.

What does the SM's stand for. Just getting ready to change my oil, Following this post trying to find out what oil to use. Prevs. owner used mobil 1 15w50

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88Skier

In as much as I hate to say it, I spoke at length with a shell oil "expert" in Houston about Rotella T Syn in lieu of Pennzoil Marine 15-40. The person was very much in favor of using the Pennzoil marine because of the corrosion inhibitors adn "stickiness additives" and had many other good things to say about it. He also mentioned a recent article in Hot Rod regarding the SM oils and how the older flat tapped (non roller) cam engines are prematurely wearing when using the SM's. This marine oil vs. automotive syn. may need further thought, especially when the engine is still under warranty, even if you use fogging oil for winterization.

What does the SM's stand for. Just getting ready to change my oil, Following this post trying to find out what oil to use. Prevs. owner used mobil 1 15w50

I'd stay with synthetic.

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Gordo

You guys need to focus on the API grade as well as the viscosity rating. An automobile engine does not need an extreme duty oil like a marine engine. At 70 mph, the average car engine is turning about 2000 RPM, just loafing along. A marine engine is constantly in the 4000 RPM range, sometimes higher. So an oil with a CH-4 rating (the first API extreme grade rating) is quite essential. In the last several years, they have even created a CH-4+ rating, which exceeds the CH-4. Use whatever brand you like, just be sure you are getting an oil that has at least a CH-4 (or better) API rating. Pennzoil Marine is CH-4, and a good oil, but there are others out there that meet that standard too, including synthetics.

T - As to sludge build up, that is more of a concern in low rpm engines (like auto). The extreme rpm ranges a marine engine is subjected to (assuming you change your oil regularly) do not really allow that. With todays detergent oils, sludge is really pretty much a thing of the past - unless you go years without changing!!!

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grnautique

I read an article in Boating Magazine about a new certification for marine motor oil known as FC-W. The basics of the article were that they suggest you should use only use FC-W motor oils in marine applications. Supposedly it has corrosion inhibitors and no automotive engine oil could ever pass the tests for this certification. When I changed my oil this last time, the only oil I could find that had this certification was Quicksilver so that is what I bought but it was very pricey ($14 for a gallon).

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