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Proposed ballast law


PDav19

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39 minutes ago, Sixball said:

I question the need to flush the motor. I have never herd or seen any evidence of mussels in the cooling system of a motor. Our operating temp should be enough to do the same as a flush. 

Agreed.  I'm running at 160 and when I pull the boat and drain it at the ramp in the fall it's still hot enough to hurt. 

They may be trying to push organisms from the seawater side through though with hot water.  Which I can understand.  

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2 hours ago, Pra4sno said:

I ski the same res all year with my boat.  I have no ballast.  The spring check is the complete one for me, but they really only check my transom plug has been out for the winter and the boat is dry inside.  I haven't had them flush my motor.

I've been through with buddies and they don't do anything with their ballast tanks throughout the year.  Maybe 5-10 times.  I could be missing something.

Colorado law is pretty clear.  If your boat isn't ANS sealed, and you have either a sterndrive or inboard, you are required to have a decontamination prior to launch.  Ballast tanks have to be decontaminated as well.  Outboards are a bit different because they don't hold water.

All State Parks, County lakes (like Larimer County) National Rec areas, etc all comply.  I go to many different lakes in the state over the year between my fishing boat and my Malibu, and I can only think of one or two that don't have inspections.  I have heard that a couple of the private lakes (one of the Wellington Reservoirs) don't have inspectors.

I really am surprised that you haven't been through it.

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4 hours ago, Pra4sno said:

I ski the same res all year with my boat.  I have no ballast.  The spring check is the complete one for me, but they really only check my transom plug has been out for the winter and the boat is dry inside.  I haven't had them flush my motor.

I've been through with buddies and they don't do anything with their ballast tanks throughout the year.  Maybe 5-10 times.  I could be missing something.

It just depends on if they're tagged.  If I leave my lake & try to go to Horse, Boyd or another local lake I get sent to Decon & they flush everything.  On the way out I get the tag/seal & I can get back on when I return.  What res are you on?  Every lake in CO has the tag / seal program.  If you don't have ballast & they see you're dry it's usually not a hassle but boats with ballast get no leeway.

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3 hours ago, Sixball said:

I question the need to flush the motor. I have never herd or seen any evidence of mussels in the cooling system of a motor. Our operating temp should be enough to do the same as a flush. 

Don't get me started how much I hate the flush.  Those morons don't know what they're doing & I have to always yell at them to get the damn fake lake on correctly & let me do it cause they never get it right, try to run the motor till water comes out, I get all sorts of worked up when the guy doing it is an idiot.

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1 hour ago, racer808 said:

It just depends on if they're tagged.  If I leave my lake & try to go to Horse, Boyd or another local lake I get sent to Decon & they flush everything.  On the way out I get the tag/seal & I can get back on when I return.  What res are you on?  Every lake in CO has the tag / seal program.  If you don't have ballast & they see you're dry it's usually not a hassle but boats with ballast get no leeway.

Horsetooth exclusively and I get tagged and put in the plates system.  Previous owner had a Horsetooth band on it, so I guess I'm a unique case having never gone through Decon. 

I've missed the inspectors when I left in the evening one time this fall (they left at 4pm in late October and I didn't get off the water until 6pm) and was not tagged, but when I showed up the next morning they checked their tablet and said the guy put my plates in their system before he left the previous night, so I was good.   I put my plugs in and headed to the launch.  

Very glad to hear the system is enforced and it seems like I've been experiencing some common sense from the inspectors. 

I did ask the guys in the "crew" I ski with yesterday and they said they've gone through it every time they switch, but in their minds it is a joke compared to what it should be.  They all recommended putting some kind of tablet in their tanks when they switch bodies of water.  They don't like the limited hours, the training of staff, the bad equipment and really just think the program could be better funded to deal with the increased volume of boats on the reservoir.  I think we all agree that its on borrowed time.  

Edited by Pra4sno
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I just got off the phone with one of the co-sponsors of the Oregon draft bill and had a really good conversation but it's clear it will be a very tough one to shoot down since there's so much passion on the other side. There's a group of landowners that are very passionate about getting the "knuckleheads" to stop buzzing their docks and they've got the attention of the legislature at a number of levels. Perspective at the legislature is it's a state wide problem because of all the complaints they're getting from different parts of the state and this is being done by the transportation committee as a test to see if it can be applied elsewhere if the law is effective.

Erosion control is the buzzword being used for this but all the examples we talked about were related to homeowner complaints of the "knuckleheads" that aren't being responsible with their wakes close to docks. The representative has been looking at industry data on waves and erosion but seems more concerned that the size of waves being made these days just isn't acceptable. I pointed out that I've seen the 15-20' river rise ever winter to be what's actually carving out huge chunks of the bank by each spring but he must have mentioned it being a knucklehead issue a half dozen times in the 15 minute call.

It would be helpful if local folks can reach out to their reps and give thoughtful comments on why this over-reaching law isn't necessary. Something is going to change because of the momentum the other side has but I would prefer to see the existing Marine Board rules modified, rather than a law put in place will likely stay on the books forever and be a precedent that's used in other areas.

There's some form emails floating around and he mentioned about half the responses are the identical forms, for both sides, but that personally written emails with individual perspectives are most helpful as they look at this issue.

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^Good to know. I remember the last bout about a decade ago and we lost. No ballast and no WED's allowed on the Upper Willy. From what I hear, the problem is Clackamas County doesn't enforce it because it's hard to pull people over for probable cause. So I am sure this makes the property owners furious and more vocal. We need to rise up, come with numbers and stop this. Keep public water open for everyone! I don't like wave runners messing up the water but they have just as much right to the public water as I do. 

The new proposed bill would extend the WED ban basically to the 10th St ramp and the 200' rule would cause dangerous situations in the middle of the river. Regardless, as a community we need to come together and police (knuckleheads) ourselves. We've reached out to other dealers and we have some things in the hopper. The time is now!

Edited by skurfer
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On 2/2/2018 at 3:39 PM, NWBU said:

I just got off the phone with one of the co-sponsors of the Oregon draft bill and had a really good conversation but it's clear it will be a very tough one to shoot down since there's so much passion on the other side. There's a group of landowners that are very passionate about getting the "knuckleheads" to stop buzzing their docks and they've got the attention of the legislature at a number of levels. Perspective at the legislature is it's a state wide problem because of all the complaints they're getting from different parts of the state and this is being done by the transportation committee as a test to see if it can be applied elsewhere if the law is effective.

Erosion control is the buzzword being used for this but all the examples we talked about were related to homeowner complaints of the "knuckleheads" that aren't being responsible with their wakes close to docks. The representative has been looking at industry data on waves and erosion but seems more concerned that the size of waves being made these days just isn't acceptable. I pointed out that I've seen the 15-20' river rise ever winter to be what's actually carving out huge chunks of the bank by each spring but he must have mentioned it being a knucklehead issue a half dozen times in the 15 minute call.

It would be helpful if local folks can reach out to their reps and give thoughtful comments on why this over-reaching law isn't necessary. Something is going to change because of the momentum the other side has but I would prefer to see the existing Marine Board rules modified, rather than a law put in place will likely stay on the books forever and be a precedent that's used in other areas.

There's some form emails floating around and he mentioned about half the responses are the identical forms, for both sides, but that personally written emails with individual perspectives are most helpful as they look at this issue.

Seems like the wake boat manufacturers and dealers should be talking to these lawmakers. I'm assuming these land owners have a good bankroll and you have to fight $$$ with $$$. 

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3 hours ago, vanamp said:

Seems like the wake boat manufacturers and dealers should be talking to these lawmakers. I'm assuming these land owners have a good bankroll and you have to fight $$$ with $$$. 

So I am a lake front owner. I am not one of the people fighting to ban wake sports and don't want to pick A fight. I do need to give you some incite. Its not just the money the lake front owners have to fight. You need to understand we are a very big part of the tax base for Townships, county's, city's.  Our tax bills are significantly inflated for the privilege of owning our homes and property.  In many of the issues the boat traffic and size of boats has changed dramatically in the last fifteen years. With that we are experiencing water front property damage and noise pollution has change along with this also. I don't see the majority of owners complaining but the numbers are going up. I just want to say the tax base will hold a winning hand. The local government understands the need to support its tax base.  They hold the ability to change laws and ordnance's  I have spent many years working on Lake association boards, Township boards, volunteering on weed control so I have good incite to many feelings around our lakes in my area. I don't think it changes A lot any other lake front areas.  Its not just wake sports but speed, noise along with other odd issues and wake and loud hi speed boats are the most often the target boats for the mass of the complaints. I spent well over $40K two years ago to repair and restructure my water front. No not all was damage from boating but to repair my sea wall and beach area I had to remove my terracing walls to fix the sea wall so its related. I have said an do stand with wake boats are not the biggest cause  of damage but the numbers of wake boats are changing very fast. This will only put more pressure on the issue. As always the few bad operators are the ones people remember!  You may want to get people involved with lake associations, community government. I think you will find many people don't want to stop peoples fun but the squeaky wheel is the one people hear. Lake shape and size can make a big difference in complaints. Small narrow lakes are affected big time.    

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7 hours ago, vanamp said:

Seems like the wake boat manufacturers and dealers should be talking to these lawmakers. I'm assuming these land owners have a good bankroll and you have to fight $$$ with $$$. 

Totally. If Wake sports become banned in this state, dealers who specialize in tow boats are basically done.... Manufatures aren’t focusing enough on ski boats to solely rely on selling them instead. 

So any dealer that wants to stay alive better pick up a bad a** pontoon brand or expand its territory elsewhere. 

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7 hours ago, Pra4sno said:

Heading over to the stereo subforum on here sure makes the case for the noise complaints hard to argue. 

If you’re building a sound system to be heard loud and clear 75 feet behind the boat with the engine running you are certainly going to upset other people. Who cares however since it’s always about me and my needs!

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5 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Totally. If Wake sports become banned in this state, dealers who specialize in tow boats are basically done.... Manufatures aren’t focusing enough on ski boats to solely rely on selling them instead. 

So any dealer that wants to stay alive better pick up a bad a** pontoon brand or expand its territory elsewhere. 

Good point.  Everyone invoice I have seen has two charges that should go to education on issues like this 

3FF22192-68B0-4C00-BABF-64565052D38E.png

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ahopkins22LSV

If it makes you guys feel any better, the Michigan DNR has changed the requirements for a slalom course permit. The buoys have to be removed whenever the course is not in use and we have to get a signed “no objection” letter from any homeowner on the lake that would have riparian rights to the course. Even though no homeowner has riparian rights on the water, it’s all public. So the love is being spread everywhere...

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^^ ouch.  

Since all the trout lines and baited jugs don't have to be removed that are in our local lakes, maybe you should put hooks on the course buoys and bait them - then at least they are always "in use"!

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I am not sure our tow boat industry would crumble. Like any good business it would likely restructure. Do you think people who enjoy water sports water time would leave?  Hat to say it but we are a nation of followers. If a sport gets big time exposure people give it a try. Surfing is somewhat easier and the falls don't hurt that makes it a good family sport. Being a slalom skier we have taken people who thought it was just to difficult to enjoying skiing and are now enjoying the sport . Some of the new equipment has made armature skiing much easier to get started. I am sure the driver can help the surfing ride but the driver can make or brake a first time skier or boarder. Our tugs are fun to drive and are in the upper end of classy boats. We have a number on the lake that I never see towing anyone.  It would be hard on our industry no doubt. More people enjoy sports that don't have hi risk for injury.

Edited by Sixball
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15 hours ago, Sixball said:

So I am a lake front owner. I am not one of the people fighting to ban wake sports and don't want to pick A fight. I do need to give you some incite. Its not just the money the lake front owners have to fight. You need to understand we are a very big part of the tax base for Townships, county's, city's.  Our tax bills are significantly inflated for the privilege of owning our homes and property.  In many of the issues the boat traffic and size of boats has changed dramatically in the last fifteen years. With that we are experiencing water front property damage and noise pollution has change along with this also. I don't see the majority of owners complaining but the numbers are going up. I just want to say the tax base will hold a winning hand. The local government understands the need to support its tax base.  They hold the ability to change laws and ordnance's  I have spent many years working on Lake association boards, Township boards, volunteering on weed control so I have good incite to many feelings around our lakes in my area. I don't think it changes A lot any other lake front areas.  Its not just wake sports but speed, noise along with other odd issues and wake and loud hi speed boats are the most often the target boats for the mass of the complaints. I spent well over $40K two years ago to repair and restructure my water front. No not all was damage from boating but to repair my sea wall and beach area I had to remove my terracing walls to fix the sea wall so its related. I have said an do stand with wake boats are not the biggest cause  of damage but the numbers of wake boats are changing very fast. This will only put more pressure on the issue. As always the few bad operators are the ones people remember!  You may want to get people involved with lake associations, community government. I think you will find many people don't want to stop peoples fun but the squeaky wheel is the one people hear. Lake shape and size can make a big difference in complaints. Small narrow lakes are affected big time.    

I don't think anything like this happens without someone being in the pocket of a lawmaker.  Maybe I'm Just sinical but I'd bet 10,000 people complaining would do nothing but one guy who can grease the wheels a bit complains and all of a sudden there is a bill making its way to the top of the pile. 

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^ + this again.

I went from boarding to skating to surfing and am now a skier. 

No one is trying to chase ski boats off lakes so its looking like good timing.  

We barely ever have the radio on.  Running too fast and too focused on everything else.  I can't plow water and at skiing speeds my wake is less than someone jumping off the dock by the time it reaches shore.  

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17 hours ago, Sixball said:

So I am a lake front owner. I am not one of the people fighting to ban wake sports and don't want to pick A fight. I do need to give you some incite. Its not just the money the lake front owners have to fight. You need to understand we are a very big part of the tax base for Townships, county's, city's.  Our tax bills are significantly inflated for the privilege of owning our homes and property.  In many of the issues the boat traffic and size of boats has changed dramatically in the last fifteen years. With that we are experiencing water front property damage and noise pollution has change along with this also. I don't see the majority of owners complaining but the numbers are going up. I just want to say the tax base will hold a winning hand. The local government understands the need to support its tax base.  They hold the ability to change laws and ordnance's  I have spent many years working on Lake association boards, Township boards, volunteering on weed control so I have good incite to many feelings around our lakes in my area. I don't think it changes A lot any other lake front areas.  Its not just wake sports but speed, noise along with other odd issues and wake and loud hi speed boats are the most often the target boats for the mass of the complaints. I spent well over $40K two years ago to repair and restructure my water front. No not all was damage from boating but to repair my sea wall and beach area I had to remove my terracing walls to fix the sea wall so its related. I have said an do stand with wake boats are not the biggest cause  of damage but the numbers of wake boats are changing very fast. This will only put more pressure on the issue. As always the few bad operators are the ones people remember!  You may want to get people involved with lake associations, community government. I think you will find many people don't want to stop peoples fun but the squeaky wheel is the one people hear. Lake shape and size can make a big difference in complaints. Small narrow lakes are affected big time.    

I do believe that you have hit on something that I have felt for some time.  That is the growing population and growing number of boaters in areas where there is boating.  We faced restrictions imposed by the Marine Board about 10 years ago.  I was involved in that discussion and attended meetings and gave testimony.  90% of the testimony, including the sheriff's office, were against a ban on WEDs (wake enhancing devices, which also includes the distribution of people to enhance the wake), but most were for being at least 100' from docks and other riders.  The ban on WEDs was imposed anyway, because the governor wanted it after getting pressure from some influential riverfront owners.

In Oregon, waterways are public.  People who live on the river are basically living next to a freeway.  When there were not that many boaters, it was quiet and pleasant.  As the population has grown and the popularity of water sports has exploded, very much driven by wakeboarding and wake surfing, that quiet freeway is now quite crowded and loud at certain times.  I believe that wake sports have become the fall guys for some influential owners who don't like having their quiet freeway not so quiet anymore.

The new laws by the legislature, if passed, will have little effect on me personally, as we have switched to almost exclusive slalom skiing.  I think I broke out the wakeboard twice last year.  I do worry about what will happen to our local dealer, as their major profits are from wake boats, not ski boats.

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2 hours ago, vanamp said:

I don't think anything like this happens without someone being in the pocket of a lawmaker.  Maybe I'm Just sinical but I'd bet 10,000 people complaining would do nothing but one guy who can grease the wheels a bit complains and all of a sudden there is a bill making its way to the top of the pile. 

I have not seen it. I only say this because one person can not get A law or ordnance passed on his or her desire alone.  Not going to say greasing doesn't happen!  That is why I try to stay up to speed on our local government. We have a number of very shady people in our local government. I will also say A number of them have ended up in the state run iron bar motel!  Its not always fun and sometimes very disrupting to your free time but sure can stop a lot of crap before it goes down if you keep eyes on them, That is why I say get involved in some of the boards or go to county or township meeting. If they don't get feedback from some of us they have no issue running thing in ways you or I may not like. 

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1 hour ago, Sixball said:

I have not seen it. I only say this because one person can not get A law or ordnance passed on his or her desire alone.  Not going to say greasing doesn't happen!  That is why I try to stay up to speed on our local government. We have a number of very shady people in our local government. I will also say A number of them have ended up in the state run iron bar motel!  Its not always fun and sometimes very disrupting to your free time but sure can stop a lot of crap before it goes down if you keep eyes on them, That is why I say get involved in some of the boards or go to county or township meeting. If they don't get feedback from some of us they have no issue running thing in ways you or I may not like. 

I live in a town that's in the cities but trying to keep a more rural vibe. No one in the city wants anything the is getting pushed through but somehow it's happening.  Might explain where my cynicism is coming from. Probably not the case everywhere but it's making me lose a little faith in the system. 

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