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Proposed ballast law


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1 hour ago, Sixer said:

Prohibits "ballast water"..............I would anticipate a lot of lead bags being sold in NY in the near future.

I'm going to start a ballast bag company called "survival Kit"  with the tag line "6 months supply of water".  I'll print it on every bag. 

Or maybe call the company "waste holding bag" and have the logo be a toilet or biohazard sign. 

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Where we boat we have a pretty small lake that opens up to a big lake, but quite often the only weather suitable for watersports is on the smaller part. On of the few cabin owners began complaining to the city about surfers going right be his dock, claiming that the city is going to start coming out and measuring waves. 

Meanwhile the cabin owner is pissing off the local ski club by practically running over and cutting us off on his seadoo,  when we’re in tow down the slalom course. 

I agree some people need to learn to smarten up and play elsewhere but there comes a place where somebody is going to complain about something no matter what. 

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The proposed statute only applies to using the ballast within 600 feet of shore.  Seems very reasonable for most bodies of water.   When I see videos of boats surfing in a channel with docks very close by I cringe.  I'd be pissed too.

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The Oregon State Marine Board is opening up rule making for a State wide Rule prohibiting Wake sports 200 Ft from Shore, Docks etc. That would be for Lakes and rivers, But word has it a State Representative, that lives on a local river is introducing a Bill to either regulate Wake Boats or banning Wake Surfing and other wake sports on rivers, I have not seen the drafted Bill yet, but it's somewhere on those lines. So basically he is going over the head of the OSMB to push his bill.. The WSIA did a wave energy study that used a fully loaded G23 and the results were at 200 feet there was not enough energy in the wave to cause any damage to docks or structures or abnormal erosion to the shore line! 600 feet is pretty excessive I would think!  

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9 hours ago, Wakesetter67 said:

The Oregon State Marine Board is opening up rule making for a State wide Rule prohibiting Wake sports 200 Ft from Shore, Docks etc. That would be for Lakes and rivers, But word has it a State Representative, that lives on a local river is introducing a Bill to either regulate Wake Boats or banning Wake Surfing and other wake sports on rivers, I have not seen the drafted Bill yet, but it's somewhere on those lines. So basically he is going over the head of the OSMB to push his bill.. The WSIA did a wave energy study that used a fully loaded G23 and the results were at 200 feet there was not enough energy in the wave to cause any damage to docks or structures or abnormal erosion to the shore line! 600 feet is pretty excessive I would think!  

It's not the docks or structures I worry about.  I've taken enough water over the bow the last couple years to know it's a problem, and I'm on a 23 foot boat.  If you go chat with the guys fishing in smaller boats they'll give you an absolute earful.  This poorly written bill would adversely impact those who recreate on rivers, as it results in a de facto ban on ballast.  It's also going to be hard to enforce, as others have noted above.  Unfortunately everyone's situation is different and this cookie cutter proposal is sure to have unintended consequences.  My solution would be to change the verbiage to say "within X00 feet of docks or marinas."  Still doesn't solve the problem of the poor guy in a 12 foot Jon boat or kayakers, except for the currently existing law that makes you responsible for your own wake, which seems to be completely ignored.

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we surf our 257 with 1000lead in a 1600 acre lake.  it is a Corp lake so no lake front construction. the WP pulled us over and said our wave rocked his boat at the marina, it was 300 to 400 yards away.  we were the only people on th e water so it was us.  so we don' surf near the marina at all and we throw onto the shore.  also we don' t throw at fishermen and there bassholes. MO boating laws just state to be courteous about where your wake goes.  we have always been watchful, just more now.

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3 hours ago, formulaben said:

It's not the docks or structures I worry about.  I've taken enough water over the bow the last couple years to know it's a problem, and I'm on a 23 foot boat.  If you go chat with the guys fishing in smaller boats they'll give you an absolute earful.  This poorly written bill would adversely impact those who recreate on rivers, as it results in a de facto ban on ballast.  It's also going to be hard to enforce, as others have noted above.  Unfortunately everyone's situation is different and this cookie cutter proposal is sure to have unintended consequences.  My solution would be to change the verbiage to say "within X00 feet of docks or marinas."  Still doesn't solve the problem of the poor guy in a 12 foot Jon boat or kayakers, except for the currently existing law that makes you responsible for your own wake, which seems to be completely ignored.

I should have been a little bit more specific, Yes it also includes swimmers,  boats anchored etc, Which can make it a little tricky on a narrow river, 

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5 hours ago, spikew919 said:

Laws like this make me glad we do 90% of our boating on the river. You can always find a good stretch without any docks or another boat to do our playing. 

I agree, But back in 2008 they placed a Ban on wake enhancing device's, on about 17 Miles stretch of the river with a lot of area with no houses or docks,  So what that did is bunch everyone up in 2 areas and caused a real safety concern, With this new law coming they would get rid of the WED Ban and allow boaters to disperse but keeping the 200 proximity distance away from Docks, Swimmers, Moored boats and anchored boats etc. It could work if you also add education and boating etiquette, As for Lakes no issues at all keeping the 200 ft rule! 

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2 hours ago, Wakesetter67 said:

So where we launch and load our boat, there are 200 ft no wake buoy out from the dock and ramp, people go by all the time wake surfing just beyond the No wake Buoy and I have stood on the dock holding my boat waiting for my crew with No real issue as the waves come in, So I know personally 200 Ft works. I have been documenting a lot of this last year because I know this is coming to a head, One thing I know for sure, I personally drive my boat so much different then I did a few years ago, practicing to be courteous and staying away from others, That go's along way and others need to do the same. Perfect example, We were in the middle of the river and up ahead on the left of us was some guys fishing near the shore in their boat and a wakeboarder coming up fast on my right. So I decided to just kill it and load my rider, drive around the fishermen and carry on, Lets just say I got a whole different kind of finger jester then if I would have motored on by,  Those guys appreciated what we did, It may not always work out that way but if we all try to think of others a bit more it go's along way! 

The problem with this thought is your boat is a floating item. Docks lifts sea walls and lake or river boundary are fixed. Fixed items react in a much different manner.   I have always said Wake boats are only a part of the issues. Any boat cruising at the wrong speed creates large wakes. So its not a well written law if it does not talk about more then wake boats and ballast, speed, One of the big issues today, many of the lakes people are having problems with are lakes that in the past did not see large boats. People have moved to much larger boats for recreation in small lakes that have not seen them ten or fifteen years ago. I know Michigan has talked about wake issues but we only have the you are responsible for your wake law other then marked areas.  I would put odd on this becoming a much bigger and common issue in the years to come.  

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Yes but again, According to the study which was conducted in 2015 by Clifford Goudey, one of the most distinguished experts on wave science an ocean engineer and Navel architect. and Lewis Girod who is a software and sensing engineer. using a G23 fully weighted  to 4250 Lbs,  for a total vessel weight of 10'150 Lbs. the conclusions was as stated: " Wakeboard & Wakesurf wakes/waves when operated at at least 150 feet or more from shore, do not carry enough energy to have significant impact on most shorelines and properly Maintained docks or structures. and the maximum wake/wave height associated with wakesurf & wakeboard drops 27 to 56% in the first 100-150 feet of it's travel from the boat path. Now boat wakes from cruising boats , rec boats dissipate more slowly and lack the initial drop in size associated with wake boats, ( which makes sense when a local dealer and a police boat did there own test and the marine patrol boats wakes were actually bigger then the wake boat wakes )  Lastly a wakesurfing boat passing a section of shoreline every nine minutes is less damaging than naturally occurring waves from a 10 mph wind one mile of fetch! I'm a person that likes to see actual study's done, Is there still a problem.. Yes but unfortunately wake boats get all the blame and there really is no significant data that I have seen to back that up, I'm sure all boats do there part, Its a fricken body of water, and yes home owners are responsible to maintain and build a quality dock if your going to stick it on a public water way! And yes I have proof of that as well with many friends that live on this same stretch of water and who have zero issues with dock damage and erosion. 

Edited by Wakesetter67
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I tend to believe the wake boat gets more of the guilt and do not deserve much of it. As I said the slow cursing boat say mid teens to hi teens MPH are as much of an issue I may go even more as they tend to be closer to shore. I also agree with the build has much to do with problems but with that said in many places you can not put permanent docks and lifts in lake front property. We in the north need to remove our docks and lifts for winter.  I also don't dough the drop in wave height but the mass does not. People tend to pick on things to complain about and many do not look at the full picture. One obnoxious wake boat can stick out and put a lot of guilt over the entire wake industry. I know over the years our lake front owners pick poorly the boats that they think are the biggest problem.  Also the the loud music from tower speakers  on wake boats tend to draw notice.  So they get a lot of complaints on our lake.  And yet we have pontoons that play music much louder more often. Wake boats tent to have a target on them. I know for us the fifteen plus years we have lived on our lake we have had massive lake front change much to do with water front deterioration. I also know most of it is not do to wake boats as surfing has only come to our lake the last two years.  

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58 minutes ago, Sixball said:

I tend to believe the wake boat gets more of the guilt and do not deserve much of it. As I said the slow cursing boat say mid teens to hi teens MPH are as much of an issue I may go even more as they tend to be closer to shore. I also agree with the build has much to do with problems but with that said in many places you can not put permanent docks and lifts in lake front property. We in the north need to remove our docks and lifts for winter.  I also don't dough the drop in wave height but the mass does not. People tend to pick on things to complain about and many do not look at the full picture. One obnoxious wake boat can stick out and put a lot of guilt over the entire wake industry. I know over the years our lake front owners pick poorly the boats that they think are the biggest problem.  Also the the loud music from tower speakers  on wake boats tend to draw notice.  So they get a lot of complaints on our lake.  And yet we have pontoons that play music much louder more often. Wake boats tent to have a target on them. I know for us the fifteen plus years we have lived on our lake we have had massive lake front change much to do with water front deterioration. I also know most of it is not do to wake boats as surfing has only come to our lake the last two years.  

During some Marine board public comment, We had people swear the wake boats were causing the land slides all along the river. ( Note: Wettest spring on record )  then a guy gets up who has lived on a stretch of the river that wake boats cant go, to many rocks and sandbars and totally shot down the one dudes testimony as he experiences shore erosion every year and loses parts of his bank and trees as well. Guess what NO Wake boats have gone thru.. Its asinine and flat out fabricated crap that these people write in and testify in front of the board with No scientific evidence and some times the board buys it.. Well not this guy! 

Edited by Wakesetter67
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This is a big problem today and not only in what we are speaking of. People often take a small part of a problem and try to fix it without looking at all of the facts. Rarely do our problems have a simple fix or a single cause.  As I said people like to put a target on something and go after it. The target often is not the sol issue. And sometimes not even part of the issue.

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Sounds like to me a similar problem with Lake Tahoe and jet skis many years ago. The residents did not like the noise of the jet skis and the aggressive riding. So they went after them with environmental law against the 2 stroke motors. 

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9 minutes ago, Dfowkes said:

Sounds like to me a similar problem with Lake Tahoe and jet skis many years ago. The residents did not like the noise of the jet skis and the aggressive riding. So they went after them with environmental law against the 2 stroke motors. 

Yep...those waterfront landowners have the means and wherewithal to get what they want. And if I were one of them,  the first thing I would want would be complete banning of all wake enhancing devices...period.  That includes wedges, ballast, lead, whatever.  Was at the in-laws house recently with a floating dock (it's all they can have) and the wakes bouncing us around were ridiculous....as was the choice of music blaring at 10,000 Watts or so from the boats.

Have fun while it lasts, fellas...pretty soon you'll be surfing in the ocean like God intended.

 

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