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Smoothing out a 2500 HD ride or going to a Yukon Denali


JeffK

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You should drive a Yukon Denali that has been tuned and has the torque management disabled. Drives like a different vehicle.

Edited by MLBurns
  • Like 1
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2 hours ago, MLBurns said:

You should drive a Yukon Denali that has been tuned and has the torque management disabled. Drives like a different vehicle.

I feel like it needs exhaust also...

But that leaves me with the mag ride problem. How is it so bad in this vehicle when it’s so good in my SS?  Part of the issue is in my SS there’s four ride modes to select. The Denali has just one. Why???  That’s half the fun of mag ride is being able to choose your ride!  Even then, the Denali rides stiffer than my SS in track mode, and the SS is riding on 35 series tires!!

Then there’s the fact that the short wheelbase Denali is just a bad tow vehicle. Our last two were XL’s, but this time around the wife really wanted a smaller rig. As the saying goes... happy wife, sad husband. 

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I'm a bit baffled by the all hate on the Yukon Denali. Makes me wonder if they made software/hardware changes in the 2017. Sounds like you and Jeff had a 2015, which was the first model year. So far my 2017 has way exceeded expectations. Sure, it would be fun to change modes on the mag-ride but not really necessary IMO. I think they've been doing that in the corvettes since the mid 90s..

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5 hours ago, IXFE said:

Yes, I’m on the car forums too and I also subscribe to a lot of the car YouTubers, so I’m well aware of all the tuning game.... it’s not for me. @JeffK is right, putting the suv into tow mode is effectively achieving the same thing (new sorftware map) only it doesn’t void your warranty. 

Legally they can only void the warranty if they can prove the modification damaged something.  Or don't chance it and flash the truck back to stock before having it serviced, which is quick and easy to do.  

Tow mode is NOT the solution, as now you are just shifting based on a setup designed for a heavy load, not your actual driving conditions.  Changing shift points, speed of shifts, torque management, load/vs shifting, etc. is the right way to correct the issue.  

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1 hour ago, G Spot said:

I'm a bit baffled by the all hate on the Yukon Denali. Makes me wonder if they made software/hardware changes in the 2017. Sounds like you and Jeff had a 2015, which was the first model year. So far my 2017 has way exceeded expectations. Sure, it would be fun to change modes on the mag-ride but not really necessary IMO. I think they've been doing that in the corvettes since the mid 90s..

I'm going tomorrow to take a 2016 out for a ride.  I'll report back.  Unfortunately, it is 6 degrees out and the roads are covered with snow, so we won't be testing the towing abilities at this point.

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1 hour ago, Nitrousbird said:

Legally they can only void the warranty if they can prove the modification damaged something.  Or don't chance it and flash the truck back to stock before having it serviced, which is quick and easy to do.  

Tow mode is NOT the solution, as now you are just shifting based on a setup designed for a heavy load, not your actual driving conditions.  Changing shift points, speed of shifts, torque management, load/vs shifting, etc. is the right way to correct the issue.  

If we keep the Yuk, I’ll look into it

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On 1/13/2018 at 7:52 AM, Pnwrider said:

Not sure who to buy from on chevys, but tuned shocks and swapping leaf springs can make a huge difference. Several of my friends run Carli lift kits on their rams and fords and they ride amazing. 

For ride quality, tire pressure and shocks are where I'd start and in that order. I'm all about doing suspension upgrades but you definitely end up with a domino effect when making significant changes to a vehicle's suspension. I installed the the Carli 3" Backcountry 2.0 kit on my 2016 Ram 2500. The kit includes all 4 replacement springs and they are supposed to be about 15% less stiff than stock. I'm running a 315/70 18 Tire and wheel combo (basically a 36" x 13" tire). Carli recommends 42 psi for the fronts and 40 psi for the rear when NOT towing. I have found I like 45 psi front and 43 psi rear. The ride is as good or, IMHO, better than my wife's 2017 Yukon Denali XL. I lost about a gallon per mile in around town mileage with the lower tire pressure (16 mpg down to 15 mpg).

I also installed Firestone Ride-Rite airbags in the rear that I run at 8 psi when unloaded. When I tow the boat I increase the pressure to 55 psi in the rear tires and increase the airbags to 10-12 psi. It rides great while towing with that setup. When I tow our travel trailer (around 11,000 lbs loaded) I increase the tire pressure to the max cold 65 psi in the rear, 55 psi in the front and the airbags to 35 psi. This levels the truck but the higher tire pressures definitely result in a rougher ride.

I love the way my truck rides but it definitely wasn't inexpensive to get it to where it is now (better ride with better performance and retaining the original hauling capabilities). I'm pretty close to $7k all in (Carli 3" BC kit, Carli High Mount Steering Stabilizer, Carli Front Sway bar drops, Wheels, Tires, Airbags and installation). 

For weather coverage I have a leer canopy on the rear. Here's a pic of mine:

y4me7FNS6r3EPTrV1ASB9tSxYTVYv_RDJ96hiCKZ

 

From this last weekend. It's the best side shot of the truck and boat I have. I actually didn't add any pressure to the air bags (still at 8 psi here) so you can see the slight sag in the rear.

y4mAURPxEU4ZBzFcmXGp_nyzpF6tUKEgnFxjPSM8

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14 hours ago, IXFE said:

It's funny because when we car shop, we tend to think we're shopping for hardware, and we are!  But it's the software that will ultimately determine if you're happy with all that expensive hardware.  And that software is designed with the EPA in mind. 

So true. Everyone wrapped up in total horsepower numbers and engine size..... Bad throttle programming and/or transmission strategy can make you hate a vehicle. 

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6 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

Legally they can only void the warranty if they can prove the modification damaged something.  Or don't chance it and flash the truck back to stock before having it serviced, which is quick and easy to do.  

Tow mode is NOT the solution, as now you are just shifting based on a setup designed for a heavy load, not your actual driving conditions.  Changing shift points, speed of shifts, torque management, load/vs shifting, etc. is the right way to correct the issue.  

Lot's of back and forth on weather a tech can see if you re-flashed the computer. Most likely depends on the dealer. Bottom line. If you modify a vehicle under warranty you better be prepared to loose that warranty. 

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4 hours ago, CharlieBeaU said:

For ride quality, tire pressure and shocks are where I'd start and in that order. I'm all about doing suspension upgrades but you definitely end up with a domino effect when making significant changes to a vehicle's suspension. I installed the the Carli 3" Backcountry 2.0 kit on my 2016 Ram 2500. The kit includes all 4 replacement springs and they are supposed to be about 15% less stiff than stock. I'm running a 315/70 18 Tire and wheel combo (basically a 36" x 13" tire). Carli recommends 42 psi for the fronts and 40 psi for the rear when NOT towing. I have found I like 45 psi front and 43 psi rear. The ride is as good or, IMHO, better than my wife's 2017 Yukon Denali XL. I lost about a gallon per mile in around town mileage with the lower tire pressure (16 mpg down to 15 mpg).

I also installed Firestone Ride-Rite airbags in the rear that I run at 8 psi when unloaded. When I tow the boat I increase the pressure to 55 psi in the rear tires and increase the airbags to 10-12 psi. It rides great while towing with that setup. When I tow our travel trailer (around 11,000 lbs loaded) I increase the tire pressure to the max cold 65 psi in the rear, 55 psi in the front and the airbags to 35 psi. This levels the truck but the higher tire pressures definitely result in a rougher ride.

I love the way my truck rides but it definitely wasn't inexpensive to get it to where it is now (better ride with better performance and retaining the original hauling capabilities). I'm pretty close to $7k all in (Carli 3" BC kit, Carli High Mount Steering Stabilizer, Carli Front Sway bar drops, Wheels, Tires, Airbags and installation). 

For weather coverage I have a leer canopy on the rear. Here's a pic of mine:

y4me7FNS6r3EPTrV1ASB9tSxYTVYv_RDJ96hiCKZ

 

From this last weekend. It's the best side shot of the truck and boat I have. I actually didn't add any pressure to the air bags (still at 8 psi here) so you can see the slight sag in the rear.

y4mAURPxEU4ZBzFcmXGp_nyzpF6tUKEgnFxjPSM8

Very nice set up. Love your wheel/tire combo. I did similar to a F250. Ditching the 20 inch rims for 18's and going with the softer springs really helped the ride. Good option for the OP.  

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3 hours ago, Tims said:

So true. Everyone wrapped up in total horsepower numbers and engine size..... Bad throttle programming and/or transmission strategy can make you hate a vehicle. 

I couldn't agree more. Not trying to poke at anybody's pain points, but it's funny reading the complaints about the new transmissions with extra gears and shifting problems that are clearly tuned to keep the RPMs low and fuel mileage higher (I've read these on other truck forums too). These are the same vehicles that I often see touted as having superior gas mileage compared to the "outdated and low-tech" Tundra.

I have similar but opposite issues with the programming in my 2014 Tundra, and it's probably my biggest complaint about an otherwise great truck. It's clearly had the transmission mapping tuned to be very responsive. As in, it wants to downshift with very little throttle movement. The transmission mapping does not allow you to really use the 400ft-lbs of low end torque as much as you should be able to. The RPMs also hang in the upper rev range for too long before shifting to the next gear. It's great if you want to zip around town without the truck feeling sluggish, but it is clearly consuming much more gas while doing so. I believe that more reasonable transmission mapping would improve the Tundra fuel economy by 2-3 mpg and make it much more enjoyable for towing where a high-revving nature can be annoying.

I guess this is a good reminder that there is no free lunch when comparing tow vehicles on the internet in the middle of the winter. :cheers:

 

Edited by Brett B
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I ditched my Land Cruiser because the 8 speed transmission. Living in a hilly area the constant shifting and feeling like it was always in the wrong gear made for a miserable driving experience. Sounds similar to the complaints with the Chevy.

Buddy of mine traded his 07 Tundra for a 17 GMC (5.3 with 8 speed) and is miserable with the purchase. Constant gear searching and crappy throttle response combined with the cylinder deactivation has him wanting his old truck back.  Wonder if the new 10 speed is better? 

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Just now, Tims said:

I ditched my Land Cruiser because the 8 speed transmission. Living in a hilly area the constant shifting and feeling like it was always in the wrong gear made for a miserable driving experience. Sounds similar to the complaints with the Chevy.

Buddy of mine traded his 07 Tundra for a 17 GMC (5.3 with 8 speed) and is miserable with the purchase. Constant gear searching and crappy throttle response combined with the cylinder deactivation has him wanting his old truck back.  Wonder if the new 10 speed is better? 

I've got to  imagine it is going to make it worse.  Think of having two more gears to wander through. 

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23 minutes ago, JeffK said:

I've got to  imagine it is going to make it worse.  Think of having two more gears to wander through. 

Thought I read that the new 10 speed has strategies that allow for skipping gears. 

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3 hours ago, Tims said:

Thought I read that the new 10 speed has strategies that allow for skipping gears. 

That would be great if that is the case.  I haven't done any research on it to date.

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We used to have a Jeep Cherokee trail hawk with the 9 speed and it was actually a really zippy suv. Always had tons of power to accelerate up hills but every now and then transmission problems were shown and after hearing all the bad stories traded it in on a Toyota. 

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OK.  I told @IXFE I would report back here, so here goes nothing.  I brought a 2016 Yukon Denali home overnight to get a little time to play with it and I have to say I don't hate it.  I had some pretty low expectations after researching and speaking with several folks, but I think my expectations may have been set too low.  I am still going to play more tonight and probably put another 40-70 miles on it.  Biggest beef at the moment?  My Prism (deep water enhanced or some crazy thing like that) Polarized Oakley's cancel out the blue and white colors on the HUD making it difficult to see.  It turned them a super lite orange color and I almost missed it totally.  I was pretty disappointed in it until I took my glasses off to clean them and realized it was there, clear as day. 

I went in with the understanding that it may hunt for gears from time to time and it has an odd sound when going into v4 mode.  Shifting wasn't bad, but the noise was there.  It sounds like the timing is off when it is only firing on 4 cylinders.  The noise cancelling in there seems a little tough to bear right at 70 mph (I heard this complaint a few places), but otherwise was nice in other ranges.  The suspension seemed fine, but I'll be seeking out some beat up roads this evening for further review.  Pretty sure this has the mag suspension.

Additional plus that I hadn't considered, I also freed up a ton of space in my garage.  The truck and boat fit, but it was snug.  I think I gained 5-6 feet back.  The shorter wheelbase may change the towing dynamics but I've used a 2dr Tahoe and regular tahoe/yukon in the past and don't feel like it was too little for my towing needs. 

All said, I'm definitely considering it.  I usually get the itch for a change every 2-3 years and usually don't buy anything brand new as far as autos go, even with the GM supplier discount I can get.  The certified vehicles are usually cheaper with a longer stretch of warranty for me.  Worst case for me, buy it and give it a full year shot.  If I don't like it, there should still be warranty left for me to sell it back and there are no shortage of diesel trucks around here.  Not sold, but leaning that way. 

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21 minutes ago, JeffK said:

OK.  I told @IXFE I would report back here, so here goes nothing.  I brought a 2016 Yukon Denali home overnight to get a little time to play with it and I have to say I don't hate it.  I had some pretty low expectations after researching and speaking with several folks, but I think my expectations may have been set too low.  I am still going to play more tonight and probably put another 40-70 miles on it.  Biggest beef at the moment?  My Prism (deep water enhanced or some crazy thing like that) Polarized Oakley's cancel out the blue and white colors on the HUD making it difficult to see.  It turned them a super lite orange color and I almost missed it totally.  I was pretty disappointed in it until I took my glasses off to clean them and realized it was there, clear as day. 

I went in with the understanding that it may hunt for gears from time to time and it has an odd sound when going into v4 mode.  Shifting wasn't bad, but the noise was there.  It sounds like the timing is off when it is only firing on 4 cylinders.  The noise cancelling in there seems a little tough to bear right at 70 mph (I heard this complaint a few places), but otherwise was nice in other ranges.  The suspension seemed fine, but I'll be seeking out some beat up roads this evening for further review.  Pretty sure this has the mag suspension.

Additional plus that I hadn't considered, I also freed up a ton of space in my garage.  The truck and boat fit, but it was snug.  I think I gained 5-6 feet back.  The shorter wheelbase may change the towing dynamics but I've used a 2dr Tahoe and regular tahoe/yukon in the past and don't feel like it was too little for my towing needs. 

All said, I'm definitely considering it.  I usually get the itch for a change every 2-3 years and usually don't buy anything brand new as far as autos go, even with the GM supplier discount I can get.  The certified vehicles are usually cheaper with a longer stretch of warranty for me.  Worst case for me, buy it and give it a full year shot.  If I don't like it, there should still be warranty left for me to sell it back and there are no shortage of diesel trucks around here.  Not sold, but leaning that way. 

Try this. If it has magneride, pull the suspension fuse under the hood, not the fuse to the rear air pump. The CPU will revert back to its base settings. It will ride wayy better not like a Cadillac but closer.  I believe the software gets stuck in sport mode and never goes back. Springs are too stiff also IMO. 

And you can negotiate better when you get back and the service engine light is on. 😂😂

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@G Spot leave it out and drive without it, and then put it back in. I will drive better for a bit even after it's put back. Service engine light will stay on for several key cycles or can reset with a scanner or probably get auto zone to reset. 

When I set up go pro under neath and ran a bumpy road and even hard braking. The shocks never moved over an inch into stroke. And were constantly topping out. Especially rear. Pulled that fuse and the shocks move all the way through past mid stroke like they should over bigger bumps. But still a little harsh over square edged. But that's more spring rate than valving. 

It has latest software but dealer or Gm had rather keep throwing parts at it instead of fixing root of problem in software. IMO 

 

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15 hours ago, Tims said:

So true. Everyone wrapped up in total horsepower numbers and engine size..... Bad throttle programming and/or transmission strategy can make you hate a vehicle. 

Very true, one of the main tricks to diesel tuning is to change the rate of the pedal position to throttle body position. When you are at 1/4 pedal you might actually be at 1/2 throttle. Most people think their truck has more power but it is just a mental thing, the only way to tell is compare performance under full throttle. Something they don't tell the public.

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New update.  I'm noticing the pulsating noise coming from the pressurization of the cabin.  The active noise canceling is giving me a headache while driving it.  I haven't found a way to disable it as of yet, but still looking.  Otherwise, pretty happy with the vehicle so far. 

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Quick update.  Working with a great dealer that is going to try the TSB's to see if it can be fixed.  They are going to hold the vehicle, with a small deposit that is refundable if I don't feel like it fixed it.  Solid group of guys.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

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do whatwe justdid.  we bought a 13 Ram diesel to tow the 257.  my wife likes it so much we traded the 15 silverado1500 and bought a duramax.  now we have 2500 diesels for daily drivers. 

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