Eco Boost Question

[Jpdubya]

I’d say the dodge torque curve look better than fords if you don’t include the eco boost. Not sure what I’m missing but that 400 ft/lbs at 2,000 rpm looks nice to me. 

[oldjeep]

2 minutes ago, Jpdubya said:

I’d say the dodge torque curve look better than fords if you don’t include the eco boost. Not sure what I’m missing but that 400 ft/lbs at 2,000 rpm looks nice to me. 

Even if you do include the eco boost, it is why the hemi tends to beat the ecoboost in any test requiring torque from a dead stop. The ecoboost builds to max torque quickly but is lacking off idle when compared to the Hemi.

 

[IXFE]

5 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Even if you do include the eco boost, it is why the hemi tends to beat the ecoboost in any test requiring torque from a dead stop. The ecoboost builds to max torque quickly but is lacking off idle when compared to the Hemi.

 

Eh.... I’ve also owned and towed with the 5.7L Hemi and wasn’t impressed regardless of what the chart says.  

For the record, we currently have the GM 6.2L (direct injection). Doesn’t come close to the Eco when it comes to towing. 

[oldjeep]

12 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Eh.... I’ve also owned and towed with the 5.7L Hemi and wasn’t impressed regardless of what the chart says.  

For the record, we currently have the GM 6.2L (direct injection). Doesn’t come close to the Eco when it comes to towing. 

Pre 2009 hemi or 2009 + ?, they are wildly different engines

I've towed all over Montana, Colorado and Idaho with mine - never had a truck with more off the line power.  Any test I've ever seen of the Hemi vs 3.5 eco winds up about like this.  (Note the chevy in this test was a 5.3)

And while I am a fan of my current truck, it is the first dodge I've ever owned.  Previous trucks were Ford and Chevy.  163K on it without any real issues - was expecting to actually use my lifetime powertrain warranty.  When the time finally comes to replace it I'll try them all, but so far I'm not seeing a reason I would pick anything else next time.  One of my main concerns is the one that the OP of the thread is asking about - long term reliability.  That isn't so much an issue if you swap trucks every year or 2, but for those like me who buy new and keep them until they are 200K + - or like the OP who is buying used it is a big issue.

Edited January 3, 2018 by oldjeep

[IXFE]

33 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Pre 2009 hemi or 2009 + ?, they are wildly different engines

I've towed all over Montana, Colorado and Idaho with mine - never had a truck with more off the line power.  Any test I've ever seen of the Hemi vs 3.5 eco winds up about like this.  (Note the chevy in this test was a 5.3)

And while I am a fan of my current truck, it is the first dodge I've ever owned.  Previous trucks were Ford and Chevy.  163K on it without any real issues - was expecting to actually use my lifetime powertrain warranty.  When the time finally comes to replace it I'll try them all, but so far I'm not seeing a reason I would pick anything else next time.  One of my main concerns is the one that the OP of the thread is asking about - long term reliability.  That isn't so much an issue if you swap trucks every year or 2, but for those like me who buy new and keep them until they are 200K + - or like the OP who is buying used it is a big issue.

It was in a 2012 Grand Cherokee... not my primary tow rig, but we towed the 21 VLX with it a few times around town. Could be that the gearing and tranny in the GC are way different than the Ram. Idk... the very next season we had a 23 LSV and a 2013 Ecoboost... the experience couldn’t be more different.  

Setting towing aside, I wasn’t a fan of that GC even as my daily driver. For a V8 is was kind of a dog. It felt like Jeep purposely made it slow. I only kept it a year before sending it down the road. That was my one and only experience in a 5.7L Hemi. 

To be clear, I’m not some crazy Ford fanatic; don’t even own one at the moment.... we have two GM’s and a Mopar in the garage today. But if I’m buying a half ton truck, it’s an Exoboost.... best tow rig I’ve ever owned (and that includes both generations of GM 6.2’s). Somebody else said it... it’s like a small, quiet diesel. 

[oldjeep]

Looks like the Hemi in the 2012 GC was a de-tuned version (360HP/390tq)  of the one they use in the 1500(390HP/407TQ).  Trans appears to be the same 5 1/2 speed that my truck has.  Axle ratio looks like it would have been 3.09 - which helps the highway but might feel a little doggy.  Although my truck has the 3.21 gears.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by oldjeep

[MadMan]

8 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Looks like the Hemi in the 2012 GC was a de-tuned version (360HP/390tq)  of the one they use in the 1500(390HP/407TQ).  Trans appears to be the same 5 1/2 speed that my truck has.  Axle ratio looks like it would have been 3.09 - which helps the highway but might feel a little doggy.  Although my truck has the 3.21 gears.

 

Wonder if it was purposely detuned, or caused by something like a more restrictive exhaust?

[IXFE]

9 minutes ago, MadMan said:

Wonder if it was purposely detuned, or caused by something like a more restrictive exhaust?

Maybe both!  I swear that Jeep ran like a sewing machine. Before selling it I strongly considered upgrading the exhaust to wake it up. 

[oldjeep]

12 minutes ago, MadMan said:

Wonder if it was purposely detuned, or caused by something like a more restrictive exhaust?

Likely de-tuned to keep from blowing up the transfer case or rear end, but that is just a guess.  The Ram 1500 has a pretty good sized AAM rear end, pretty sure that the GC was still using a D35 at that time - which is a pretty iffy axle, especially in IRS form. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by oldjeep

[85 Barefoot]

I think altitude and terrain has a big influence on how one perceives the EB power, not to mention ones accelerator habits.

I pulled an FS44 about 40 miles with a new EB last year, gingerly.  Then drove it back the same 40 miles w our denali.  Denali felt like it had much more right off the throttle.  No hills and no aggressive acceleration.  I could certainly believe that at any altitude the EB really opens up.

As to the ram 5.7, unfortunately, by my mistake, I have the 3.21 not the 3.91.  Ithas more than sufficient power, but after owning one w the 3.91, wish I would have had that gear set.  I can only imagine that the 3.08 in IXFE's GC, made it even softer.

[granddaddy55]

The 3,73 rear in my 2.7 EB, I think definitely makes an off the line difference , though I don’t know how much more than the 3.55 that I think was the 1st optional resr end they often put on the 3.5

pulled with my old dodge 5.9 litre and this motor easily competes with that power package and beats it and I don’t get 8 mph in 3rd gear towing with OD off .  You ruin the orbital gear in that tranny if you pull and do too much down shifting as I did originally cause manual didn’t say you had to use OD off( it wasn’t even called tow mode in 2000 ram) but I got 8 read it again , 8mpg with that Dodge (and my boat was much lighter then) driving 50-55

at 60 worst I get with EB2.7 is 11-12mpg

love my EB

[granddaddy55]

The 3,73 rear in my 2.7 EB, I think definitely makes an off the line difference , though I don’t know how much more than the 3.55 that I think was the 1st optional resr end they often put on the 3.5

pulled with my old dodge 5.9 litre and this motor easily competes with that power package and beats it and I don’t get 8 mph in 3rd gear towing with OD off .  You ruin the orbital gear in that tranny if you pull and do too much down shifting as I did originally cause manual didn’t say you had to use OD off( it wasn’t even called tow mode in 2000 ram) but I got 8 read it again , 8mpg with that Dodge (and my boat was much lighter then) driving 50-60

at 60 worst I get with EB2.7 is 11-12mpg

love my EB

Edited January 4, 2018 by granddaddy55

[MadMan]

An advantage of Eco boost is mpg, but since the price of gas has dropped, say from 5 years ago, it's not the advantage it used to be.

[granddaddy55]

I agree cause my 8mpg was in the height of the highest prices, but I love the performance and the fact I’m burning 87 vs premium is great and I still want  to save money at $1.95/gl, it all adds up,  

if you pay a premium for your EB then the mileage won’t mske the money back , I didn’t pay a premium so I’m earning 

i only paid $10000 more in 16’ for s 16’ then I paid for a V-8 1500 ram with a cassette deck stereo snd Power windows and locks as only options for a2000 model in 2000, $23000 versus $33000 snd I got 10 times the truck

Edited January 4, 2018 by granddaddy55

[Sixball]

I don't run premium in any of my ECos.  I looked at the 2018 Navigator but did not get it . It has a aggressive calibration Eco and likes premium but it also has 450 hp.  

[Pra4sno]

My truck is still getting amazing gas mileage up on a rack in the shop as I drive loaners.  Coming up on day 40.  

 

There really isn't a comparison when at altitude for forced induction.  I have to go through rocky mountain np on my way to friends places about 30 times a year and having similar hp at 12k elevation as 5.5k is amazing.  

[oldjeep]

27 minutes ago, MadMan said:

An advantage of Eco boost is mpg, but since the price of gas has dropped, say from 5 years ago, it's not the advantage it used to be.

Not sure that ecoboost has much of an actual mileage advantage over a modern 5.7 hemi anyways.  comparing it to the old 5.9 is a pretty silly comparison.

[granddaddy55]

My ram called for premium, I really wanted to

end that problem 

[granddaddy55]

19 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Not sure that ecoboost has much of an actual mileage advantage over a modern 5.7 hemi anyways.  comparing it to the old 5.9 is a pretty silly comparison.

I I get that but even though I expected better towing mileage from my Eco, I’m very satisfied with 11-12, is that what the 5.7 hemi  gets pulling an A20 at 60, snd can I buy one for 33000 loaded xlt screw missing only the center console and leather and 20 inch rims

arent the 1/2 ton  rams more money   and their extended warranty purchasing customers (to be fair all Chrysler/dodge models)  are in the top3 makers in satisfied extended user purchasers , hmmm

my used car mechanic had a regular customer for that customers work trucks, that guy replaced them with eco’s and their out of warranty now and he still never sees the customer any more, one of reasons I bought one, 

Edited January 4, 2018 by granddaddy55

[MadMan]

14 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

My ram called for premium, I really wanted to

end that problem 

Are you referring to your 2000 Ram 5.9?  I thought all the Ram engines of that era were 87 octane.

[oldjeep]

14 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

I I get that but even though I expected better towing mileage from my Eco, I’m very satisfied with 11-12, is that what the 5.7 hemi  gets pulling an A20 at 60, snd can I buy one for 33000 loaded xlt screw missing only the center console and leather

arent the 1/2 ton  rams more money   and their extended warranty purchasing customers (to be fair all Chrysler/dodge models)  are in the top3 makers in satisfied extended user purchasers , hmmm

my used car mechanic had a regular customer for that customers work trucks, that guy replaced them with eco’s and their out of warranty now and he still never sees the customer any more, one of reasons I bought one, 

I paid 26k for my crew cab SLT 2wd .  Gets 10-13 mpg pulling my VTX at 70, which should weigh more than an A20.  Highway mileage is 19 at 70.  Because of the gearing i actually get worse mileage at 60.

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldjeep

[granddaddy55]

42 minutes ago, MadMan said:

Are you referring to your 2000 Ram 5.9?  I thought all the Ram engines of that era were 87 octane.

I don’t think so and when i rsn 87, going up a hill or under any performance situation it would knock, I got away with 89 with little or no knock so I started mixing the Sam’s gas to create an 89 (cheapest 89 in town) when it was expensive gas time 

[granddaddy55]

If I pulled at 70 I would probably get 10, 26 for a screw or dodge extra cab(what do they call their biggest or 2nd biggest 4 door) is a great deal , but my slt was stripped,  what year?  And if that mileage your getting at 70 is from gallon measured  and not the lie O meter your killing it for a gasser 

Edited January 4, 2018 by granddaddy55

[wheelman]

I have towed with them all through the years and tow the exact same route every year to the interior of B.C. through very high and long mountain passes

I have towed with the old 5.3 Chevy with 4.10, garbage

6.2 litre Chevy much better than old 5.3

2011 ram hemi with 3.91 was super impressed

2015, 2016 3.5 ecoboost with 3.55 gears absolutely amazing, cant compare the others to it.

as the years have gone on I have got heavier boats and the ecoboost pulls the heavier weight faster, less rpm and quieter than any of the others with a lighter boat. I am now pulling 8500lbs and wot up the same hill I am going faster than any of the others  

Now have a 2018 2nd Gen 3.5 ecoboost with 3.55 and 10 speed tranny that can’t wait to see what it does and if there is a difference. 

Sorry but once I towed towed with an ecoboost at elevation there is no half ton truck that I could go to for towing. Unless you’ve towed with one you can’t understand the difference. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by wheelman

[Tims]

So getting back to the original question about Eco vs 5.0. I think most service guys don't look at the data correctly. If the large percentage of trucks are sold with the Eco's, then of course they will see a higher percentage of them in the shop for work vs the coyote. (Would be interesting to see the split of Eco vs coyote since 2013.) However if the Op is looking at an older truck that is out of warranty and reliability is more important than a better towing experience, there is little doubt the the 5.0, absent of turbos and DI, will more than likely be a better choice.