2018 23 LSV prop options (with the 410)

[NWBU]

I traded my spare 2277 for a 2249 and put the 2249 on last week for a weekend trip to a lake at 4900'. Before leaving for the weekend, I ran the 2249 at our normal 200' elevation and saw RPMs go up by 300-400, which was a noticeable difference in noise and fuel burn.

Running the 2249 at the 4900' lake this weekend added another 100-200 RPMs, and the 410 did fine with a 7-8 person crew. I was running full ballast and PNP, wedge 2-3 clicks and speed generally around 10.2 since most folks were new or relatively new surfers, and saw RPMs in the 4000-4200 range. That setup back home at 200' would see around 3500 rpms on the 2277. Some more bow weight this weekend would have helped too, and while I would buy a 450 if I lived at elevations like that, this weekend showed me I wouldn't spend the extra engine $ for a few trips a year to this elevation. I'm back to the same area in a few weeks and am tempted to try the 2277 the first day to see what it does.

If I launched with wedge in Lift, then clicked in 2-3 of wedge once the speed was set, I was seeing RPMs in the 3900-4000 range for the rest of the run, which was 100-200 less than if I launched with the wedge set 2-3 clicks from Lift. I've already been doing that back home too since it's a much quicker launch to get to speed with less engine effort but this was the first time I've seen it bring down the high end of the RPMs once speed and wedge were stabilized. 

[NWBU]

Speaking of weight, after rolling the scales last night and making some adjustments for personal baggage in the boat, I'd say it's safe to assume 8,000 lbs for a 2018 23 LSV with full fuel and lake gear. That could be high by maybe 100 lbs., but 8,000 is close enough to use for a ballpark weight and balance.

Edit: After doing a full calc that excluded the weights of all baggage and non-boating personal items in the boat, this 23 LSV came in at 7,750 lbs. ready for a weekend at the lake.

Edited July 25, 2018 by NWBU
Edit for actual total weight

[teamerickson]

My 17 23lsv came in at 7100 with 1/2 tank.

[dalt1]

1 hour ago, NWBU said:

Speaking of weight, after rolling the scales last night and making some adjustments for personal baggage in the boat, I'd say it's safe to assume 8,000 lbs for a 2018 23 LSV with full fuel and lake gear. That could be high by maybe 100 lbs., but 8,000 is close enough to use for a ballpark weight and balance.

Haven't weighed my 18 LSV yet but was guessing it was going to run 7200 to 7500 Depending on fuel load. My 12 VLX was about 6500.

[ORMailbuboater]

1 hour ago, NWBU said:

Speaking of weight, after rolling the scales last night and making some adjustments for personal baggage in the boat, I'd say it's safe to assume 8,000 lbs for a 2018 23 LSV with full fuel and lake gear. That could be high by maybe 100 lbs., but 8,000 is close enough to use for a ballpark weight and balance.

Wow do you have a lot of gear?   Malibu Spec says 5000 lbs + 65 Gallons of gas @ 6.3 lbs\gal =  410 lbs    5000 + 410 = 5410 lbs,    How heavy is the trailer?  Thought that would be around 1500 lbs.    Would think with gear this would come in closer to 7300 lbs.  Assume the scale is correct then trailer and gear come in at ~2590 lbs. 

Higher than I would have thought.  Guess I better re-think my Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).  My Yukon XL Denali 4WD rated at only 7900 lbs trailer weight.  GCWR 14,000.  *The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the total allowable weight of the completely loaded vehicle and trailer including any passengers, cargo, equipment, and conversions. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

Just now, ORMailbuboater said:

Wow do you have a lot of gear?   Malibu Spec says 5000 lbs + 65 Gallons of gas @ 6.3 lbs\gal =  410 lbs    5000 + 410 = 5410 lbs,    How heavy is the trailer?  Thought that would be around 1500 lbs.    Would think with gear this would come in closer to 7300 lbs.  Assume the scale is correct then trailer and gear come in at ~2590 lbs. 

Higher than I would have thought.  Guess I better re-think my Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).  My Yukon XL Denali 4WD rated at only 7900 lbs trailer weight.  GCWR 14,000.  *The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the total allowable weight of the completely loaded vehicle and trailer including any passengers, cargo, equipment, and conversions. 

That weight from malibu doesn’t include the tower, stereo or any other options.

[ORMailbuboater]

Just now, ahopkinsTXi said:

That weight from malibu doesn’t include the tower, stereo or any other options.

Wow did not know that.  That would make a big difference adding a tower, stereo, and all the options.  Guess I better find a scale to find out the true weight of my 2016 23 LSV.  Thanks

[NWBU]

12 minutes ago, ORMailbuboater said:

Wow do you have a lot of gear?   Malibu Spec says 5000 lbs + 65 Gallons of gas @ 6.3 lbs\gal =  410 lbs    5000 + 410 = 5410 lbs,    How heavy is the trailer?  Thought that would be around 1500 lbs.    Would think with gear this would come in closer to 7300 lbs.  Assume the scale is correct then trailer and gear come in at ~2590 lbs. 

Higher than I would have thought.  Guess I better re-think my Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).  My Yukon XL Denali 4WD rated at only 7900 lbs trailer weight.  GCWR 14,000.  *The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the total allowable weight of the completely loaded vehicle and trailer including any passengers, cargo, equipment, and conversions. 

I would say normal gear for a long boat weekend. 4 surfboards, 2 wakeboards, one Costco sized tube, lifejackets for all possible sizes, spare prop and toolkit. I recall someone else on here rolling their 2015-2017(?) 22 VLX at 7,000 lbs not too long ago, so adding the increased length and extra weight of the deeper '18 LSV hull makes ~8,000 not far from what I was estimating it would be at.

My boat partner wouldn't believe me either when I told him to plan on seeing 8,000 but he's the one that scaled it.

Edited July 23, 2018 by NWBU

[ORMailbuboater]

15 minutes ago, NWBU said:

I would say normal gear for a long boat weekend. 4 surfboards, 2 wakeboards, one Costco sized tube, lifejackets for all possible sizes, spare prop and toolkit. I recall someone else on here rolling their 2015-2017(?) 22 VLX at 7,000 lbs not too long ago, so adding the increased length and extra weight of the deeper '18 LSV hull makes ~8,000 not far from what I was estimating it would be at.

My boat partner wouldn't believe me either when I told him to plan on seeing 8,000 but he's the one that scaled it.

Being in Oregon\Portland area did you go to the CAT scale in Troutdale or Aurora?  Never been to a scale before.  

Sorry to hijack your discussion.  

Edited July 23, 2018 by ORMailbuboater

[NWBU]

On 7/23/2018 at 4:50 PM, ORMailbuboater said:

Being in Oregon\Portland area did you go to the CAT scale in Troutdale or Aurora?  Never been to a scale before.  

Sorry to hijack your discussion.  

It was in the Eugene area. My buddy/boat partner was the one towing it with his '17 Denali XL but he does it fairly often with his other toys/trailers to see how much room he has under the manufacturer specs.

@ORMailbuboater I updated my post above for the actual total weight of the boat and trailer (7,750 lbs.). 

Edited July 25, 2018 by NWBU

[jwl019]

On 6/30/2018 at 12:25 PM, IXFE said:

@NWBU you’re in breach of the first rule (and the second). 

Surfing at 4K is for the birds.

Prop swap about to do down here...

@IXFE, tried to pm you but couldn't. Got a couple questions for you about props and ballast, etc. required down near sea level on the '18 LSV's.

Was this prop the best option?

I think the build sheet on the one I am looking at has the 2249.

[Agman]

I also run the 2277 on my ‘17 T23.  Full ballast w/ 750’s in rear and 650 bow bag-under the cushion. No lead. My usual crew is 5-7 adults. RPM’s while surfing 11.2 mph is 3500. My elevation is around 500’ here in NorCal. Cruising RPM is 4000 at 30-32 mph. Been loving this prop, fuel usage is ok. 

[shawndoggy]

20 minutes ago, Agman said:

I also run the 2277 on my ‘17 T23.  Full ballast w/ 750’s in rear and 650 bow bag-under the cushion. No lead. My usual crew is 5-7 adults. RPM’s while surfing 11.2 mph is 3500. My elevation is around 500’ here in NorCal. Cruising RPM is 4000 at 30-32 mph. Been loving this prop, fuel usage is ok. 

That's weird that cruising would be so different.  I have a 2279 (same pitch and dia, just a touch less cup).  For me 4k unloaded is about 28.  DEFINITELY not 30, and MOST DEFINITELY not 32.

Running less weight than you in a T22 (WITH 150 lead in the bow) I regularly see 3800-4000.  I basically end up weighting the rear end by rpms (adding or subtracting weight till I get to 3800 @11).

Different boat so different challenges, but I'm real surprised you can get RPMs that low with that much weight AND get speed that high with RPMs that low cruising.

[Agman]

I do not have Zero Off GPS. So I am just telling you what my dash says for speed. I have never used my GPS speed app on my phone while on the boat. Wonder how accurate my speed on the dash really is.....

[Agman]

I am heading up to Oroville this weekend to close up my houseboat and see what this Wake9 Polar Fest is all about. I will use the app and report back.

I went up yesterday afternoon to pump off my boat and the dock crew said Wake9 has rented all of the houseboats..... should be fun to watch

[NWBU]

8 hours ago, jwl019 said:

@IXFE, tried to pm you but couldn't. Got a couple questions for you about props and ballast, etc. required down near sea level on the '18 LSV's.

Was this prop the best option?

I think the build sheet on the one I am looking at has the 2249.

I used the 2277 all summer on my '18 at an elevation similar to yours and it was the right prop for me with no issues pushing the weight for surfing.

I put on the the 2249 just for a trip to 4,900' but had a chance to run it at ~100' elevation first. The resulting RPMs and noise level were too high, and unnecessary for me, so it's just my backup and altitude prop.

[jwl019]

3 hours ago, NWBU said:

I used the 2277 all summer on my '18 at an elevation similar to yours and it was the right prop for me with no issues pushing the weight for surfing.

I put on the the 2249 just for a trip to 4,900' but had a chance to run it at ~100' elevation first. The resulting RPMs and noise level were too high, and unnecessary for me, so it's just my backup and altitude prop.

I think thst is the prop I am leaning towards.  What pnp ballast size are you running? Should I opt for the 580's and just not fill them all the way?

[NWBU]

16 minutes ago, jwl019 said:

I think thst is the prop I am leaning towards.  What pnp ballast size are you running? Should I opt for the 580's and just not fill them all the way?

I had the WM 475s and filled surfside 100% but left the opposite side at 75%. I found that filling both rears to 100% required some bow weight to compensate, or less wedge. I'll probably get the 580s this next year but I'm also planning on using lead on the port side and in the observers compartment to compensate for the extra rear weight and prop torque.

You mentioned '18 23 LSV but if you're looking at a '19 just be aware that the standard prop changed from the 2277 to the 2249. I was skeptical of the change before demoing but it works well with the PCM 6.0 in the '19, with slightly lower RPMs and much lower noise levels. 

[Ronnie]

9 hours ago, NWBU said:

You mentioned '18 23 LSV but if you're looking at a '19 just be aware that the standard prop changed from the 2277 to the 2249. I was skeptical of the change before demoing but it works well with the PCM 6.0 in the '19, with slightly lower RPMs and much lower noise levels. 

@NWBU Have you been in one with the 2277 yet? Wondering how that prop wil preform on these '19's with the 6.0. I ordered the 2277 with the knowledge that my dealer will swap to the 2249 if it's really needed (they are interested in the results as well). With the different torque curves of the Raptor and the GM 6.0, we need some real world tests.

[NWBU]

7 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

@NWBU Have you been in one with the 2277 yet? Wondering how that prop wil preform on these '19's with the 6.0. I ordered the 2277 with the knowledge that my dealer will swap to the 2249 if it's really needed (they are interested in the results as well). With the different torque curves of the Raptor and the GM 6.0, we need some real world tests.

Not yet. I've been on the '19 23 LSV twice now but with the 2249 each time. I was hoping to swap to the 2277 and try it back to back but we ran out of time to do that.

I'm going to do the same thing and order the 2277 on mine since I really think it's going to work well at my elevations, and I'm hoping for even lower RPMs with that combo. My backup prop is the 2249 so I can easily swap it out if needed for higher elevations. 

[Ronnie]

Sounds like a plan. I'm at ~600' elevation.  I'd love to run 3000RPM's at surf speed. I just don't know the if torque will allow that.

[Agman]

Ran it last night. 4000 RPM 30 mph using my gps speed app on the phone. My dash was saying 29-31. Lovely paddle wheel.....

[NWBU]

On 10/12/2018 at 7:50 AM, Ronnie said:

Sounds like a plan. I'm at ~600' elevation.  I'd love to run 3000RPM's at surf speed. I just don't know the if torque will allow that.

I’m hoping to see ~3200 RPMs at surf speed but even that will allow everyone in the boat to talk at normal conversation levels while surfing.

[german88]

Sorry to revive such an old thread but going through my "new to me" 2018 23 LSV and need to figure out the best prop for surfing at 2500ft elevation. Boat came with a new 2773.  This looks to be way out of the recommended range.  Anyone have thoughts on this prop?

[german88]

Forgot to mention my engine is the PCM 409 6.0.