Ordering a 2018 23 LSV - Help me choose my options

[shawndoggy]

I have surfpipe (and had FAE on two boats before that).  For me the sales pitch is this: it's the least expensive tower speaker upgrade you can do.  Reason being that the stereo has less sound to compete with behind the boat.  That also means that you don't (necessarily) have to run your stereo at levels that will melt the brains of your cabin occupants in order for someone surfing to hear the music (it's not like it won't be loud, but just not "that" loud).  And when you do run it LOUD, you can definitely hear the tower speakers better at the end of the wakeboard line.  For wakeboarding (in my experience) it was equivalent to adding a second set of rev10s.

YMMV and I totally get that priorities must be set. And looking at your options list, it's pretty lean.  there's not a lot of fat there (phender pro perhaps).  For me, I've had the table on one boat and ended up using it once and then taking it out and not hauling it around because it was such a PITA.  So that'd be an easy trade.  But a friend recently bought a used 23 and was super bummed upon delivery when he realized it didn't have the table.  Almost like he regretted the purchase of the whole boat because no table.  Different strokes!

[SCMike]

6 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

It's easier to spend over our own . 

If you don't surf much though I understand not wanting to add it right now. It can always be added later. 

Agree with you there.  I’m gonna need something to fiddle around with in the off season 😉

[SCMike]

2 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

I have surfpipe (and had FAE on two boats before that).  For me the sales pitch is this: it's the least expensive tower speaker upgrade you can do.  Reason being that the stereo has less sound to compete with behind the boat.  That also means that you don't (necessarily) have to run your stereo at levels that will melt the brains of your cabin occupants in order for someone surfing to hear the music (it's not like it won't be loud, but just not "that" loud).  And when you do run it LOUD, you can definitely hear the tower speakers better at the end of the wakeboard line.  For wakeboarding (in my experience) it was equivalent to adding a second set of rev10s.

YMMV and I totally get that priorities must be set. And looking at your options list, it's pretty lean.  there's not a lot of fat there (phender pro perhaps).  For me, I've had the table on one boat and ended up using it once and then taking it out and not hauling it around because it was such a PITA.  So that'd be an easy trade.  But a friend recently bought a used 23 and was super bummed upon delivery when he realized it didn't have the table.  Almost like he regretted the purchase of the whole boat because no table.  Different strokes!

My wife makes lunch on the boat every time we go out, it’s one of our favorite parts of the day.  Just sitting, soaking in the sun, listening to music, and floating.  The table is on her must have list.  It will mean she doesn’t have to make sadwitches on her lap or the seats any longer.

Phender pro is another one of those options to make my wife happy.  She’s always one one getting the fenders ready, and has bruised her fingers more times then I can count when tieing up.  I’m not sure how she does it, but it happens.  

So, what I’m saying is, these options are staying. 😂 happy wife...

i may end up re prioritizing some options, dropping some and adding others.  I’m the end, if I go with the 450, I’m pretty much maxed out.  If I do the 400, I’ll have some room to add.  Guess I have to decide what’s more important.  Power or options. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by SCMike

[shawndoggy]

Power. Everything else can be added later. 

[Bawshogg]

After having several boats, I've lately been thinking about how much money I spent in options on the last boat that I NEVER even  or hardly used. I'm typically a "build it how I want it" guy, but after much thought over the last few months I've come to realize that a lot of those big ticket upgrades really add NOTHING in exprierience or resale . It's a fine line to walk there.

Prime example, sliding seat with backs on last boat, I wanna say this was maybe a 3k option or so all said and done. I may used it once and put the backs in place twice over 60hrs of use. I hated it not pushed all the way back to the lounge area as it was a hurdle or a blockade moving through out the cabin. 

Same goes for the cool table and mounts throughout the boat, it may have been 600-800 bucks , might have used it once I think and then got frustrated with storing it and having it get scratched up, (it was a nice gel matched table with gator step) with no real "safe" place to store it. 

Same goes for all the LED features, transom, runway, , etc, probably added 1200 or so to the price and I might have turned them on 2 times for the evening run back to the dock, definetly wouldn't have missed them if they were gone . Cool ... YA.... worth the coin... meh.

I also tend to believe this extra 5-6g made not a difference at ALL in resale . Probably would have been able to get the same out of the boat with or without these options. 

I think must have options... plenty of HP... now in your case though, not sure I would drop the coin for the base to 450 upgrade... its s smoke and mirror upgrade if you ask me and offers minimal seat "feel" for the money.  All the ballast you can get stock and any wave/wake Inhancing devices.  The stereo .... wether you go for the stock options , which all seem to be pretty good these days , or do a decent aftermarket system ... Keep gel patterns simple and add nothing at resale, color and pattern is all subjective to each person , these add big coin to any boat and offer nothing in return to that potential buyer. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Bawshogg

[Jmann]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 10:17 AM, robbennett said:

I'm sure the clamping racks are nice but the people buying them are in a completely different world than me. I just bought a second pair of racks for $112 shipped to my door. I guess it's easier for some people to make a few grand than to pull a bungee around their board. 

It was a little over 1800 real money to upgrade the bottom two racks.  I have a friend whose kid detached his retina when he let go of a bungee and it hit him in the eye.  That cost well over 1800 bucks and will never be completely right again.  I despise bungee cords on anything and refuse to use them in work or play if another option exists.

I agree 900 per rack to upgrade is still somewhat ridiculous, but with boats well over 100k, there is a bigger elephant in the room.

[Fman]

16 hours ago, SCMike said:

Thanks @shawndoggy, I remember reading that thread.  Still not totally sold on the surf pipe.  I’m at the point where I have to remove options if I’m gonna add any more.  Haha!  The crew really loves spending other people’s money 💰 😂

One comment on the surf pipe.  As many peeps around here already know I am a big fan of the surf pipe.   Not only for the reduced exhaust noise but most importantly the safety factor for your family and friends sitting in the cabin area and riders surfing behind the boat.   CO is no joke and causes all kinds of nasty stuff and long term health problems.

If you add it later (which is totally do-able) it will more likely will cost you substantially more than ordering with the boat from the factory.  Your dealer is more than likely giving you a discount on options with the boat.  It is much easier for them to do this when ordering the boat.  If you order later there is a good chance it will be full tilt pricing along with paying for labor for the install from your dealer.

Just something to consider...

[SCMike]

On 12/1/2017 at 1:11 AM, IXFE said:

You got it. This is exactly the reason. First set is cheaper cuz you get credit for the standard bungee racks that they’re taking off. Your dealer is confused. 

Ok, spoke to my rep today and confirmed what you all were saying.  $2200 per rack is the cost of the uppers being added.  The cost to upgrade from bungee to clamping racks was $1267 per side.  I decided to bite the bullet and add these to the options list.  

[SCMike]

Here is where I think I’m gonna land.  The only option up in the air at this point is the surf pipe.  You guys are making a strong argument on that one.  BTW, I find @shawndoggy comment about the options list being lean, totally hilarious.  I totally agree with him, but even stripped down, my MSRP is still $154k.  Damn these boats are expensive!  Good news is, I plan to keep this one for at least 5 years.

Here is the build sheet...

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by SCMike

[ahopkins22LSV]

Sounds awesome and congrats! Where are the boat builder pics??!

[SCMike]

6 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Sounds awesome and congrats! Where are the boat builder pics??!

Now for the fun stuff!!  Here are the three color schemes we are considering.  What does the crew vote for?  

1. White (Primary) and Black 

2. Black and Charcoal

3. Black (Primary) and White  

Note: The boat builder pics are accurate.  The Printouts for some reason have the incorrect Logo accent color.  

 

[Bawshogg]

Almost 8g for 30 FT. Lbs ... 

It's debatebale what you really get for that 8g... even with a healthy discount it's STILL not worth the extra 5g.. 

I'd ditch that b**** quick, and add the surfpipe STAT.

When I said plenty of HP is what I would concentrate on, I was stating I would rather spend my money on the BIG engine than the little BS....  , not the big b-hole expanding engine tune. 

Excuse me if I haven't followed the whole thread , but I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difffence in each boat performance wise on the water 410 vs. 450 . I'm coming at this with real world expierience . Pretty sure I could tell you either one was a 450 and you would believe me.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Bawshogg

[SCMike]

9 minutes ago, Bawshogg said:

Almost 8g for 40 HP... 

It's debatebale what you really get for that 8g... even with a healthy discount it's STILL not worth the extra 5g.. 

I'd ditch that b**** quick, and add the surfpipe STAT.

When I said plenty of HP is what I would concentrate on, I was stating I would rather spend my money on the BIG engine than the little BS....  , not the big b-hole expanding engine tune. 

Excuse me if I haven't followed the whole thread , but I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difffence in each boat performance wise on the water 410 vs. 450 . I'm coming at this with real world expierience . Pretty sure I could tell you either one was a 450 and you would believe me.

The SC Motor is out of the question.  From what i understand, the 450 really kicks in around 3500 RPM's which is where you really need it.  This will allow me to push more weight in higher elevations (6200 feet). 

[Bawshogg]

It's your money, but that last statement says it all. 

Naturally aspirated anythings at elevations like that suffer. I'd put in work and negotiate  that huffed 575 down to 8g and feel GOOD about my money spent. 

[SBriscoe]

 Is it all right to ask how much that boat will cost? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want. Just wondering if I got a good deal on my 2018 boat? Trying to see what percentage people getting off of MSRP. 

[Bawshogg]

11 minutes ago, SBriscoe said:

 Is it all right to ask how much that boat will cost? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want. Just wondering if I got a good deal on my 2018 boat? Trying to see what percentage people getting off of MSRP. 

Ooohhh... taboo MFR.. taboo. 

Do your own due diligence and find out what YOU are willing to pay for the boat YOU want. There's way to many variables , location, dealer/dealer relationship, time of year , etc . to accurately base pricing. 

Typically good deal on that boat would be 120ish... a SMOKIN deal would be mid 100's -110k. ..... but then again , that's based on what I know LOCALLY. Could be a whole differnt game depending on region. 

[Stevo]

$50k all day

[IXFE]

@SCMike

I’m with @Bawshogg on this one. If high altitude performance is what you’re after, try to scrape yourself into the 575. Afterall, “SC” is in your name!!

Jokes aside, analyze every line item of your invoice looking for trade offs you’d be willing to make. If I had your requirements and was trying to squeeze into the 575 I would do the following:

Remeber, while none of these moves are huge money savers, every $ counts!! (all $’s stated 

- Get the CS Gen II Surf Bimini instead of the GL Bimini. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the CS Bimini.  It’s actually GREAT! That would save you $556.

- Skip high altitude prop. You won’t need it with the 575.  Savings $258.  Cumulative savings $814.

- Skip cockpit table.  Make sammiches at home or pick them up at Subway on your way to the lake.  Savings $465. Cumulative savings $1,279.

- Skip Phender Pro.  Using dock lines, tie off loops on two fenders at the right length so the fenders fall just below the rub rail when hung from the cleats.  Make sure the fenders are fat enough so as to stick out farther than the rub rail; this will keep your boat off the dock entirely. There’s seriously no reason for anybody to get bruises on their hands.  If that’s happening you’re doing it wrong.  Keep your fenders with those loops ties on them permanently.  Hang them on the starboard side cleats as you approach the dock (either you do it or your kids, not the wife; it takes 5 seconds). Always park on the starboard side. Savings $592.  Cumulative savings $1,871

- Skip soft grip floor. Take the free carpet. Upgrade to Gatorstep (which is better and cheaper than Malibu factory soft grip) in two years when the carpet wears out.  Save $1,425. Cumulative savings $3,296

- Skip trailer bow step and light bezel.  You can live without the bow step; you’re gonna use those transom steps 99% of the time anyway. And the light bezels are cool and cheap, but if you’re gonna make them black you won’t even notice them. Savings $391. Cumulative savings $3,687

- Skip the factory Rev 8’s and the required amp. There isn’t a more inefficient way to spend your money with Malibu than on tower speakers.  Their pricing is reduculous. This will save you $3,067.  Now I know you’re gonna say you need tower speakers.  Wait a few month/years and buy Exile SXT9Q Surf Package 1 which retails for $1,305 incl amp. Cumulative savings $6,754 (assuming you can hold off for a bit on tower speakers).  Even if you immediately get the Exiles you’re still saving over $1700 here and I promise you they’re just as good, if not better (I’ve had both).

- Now eliminate the Monsoon 450 and our cumulative savings is $14,652.  That goes a long way towards the 575.

The point is... don’t prioritize a bunch of junk that can be added easily later for something that can never be added later.  Imagine the disappointment you’ll feel the first time you’re up in the mountains and realize the 450 doesn’t cut it.  I’m not saying it will, but the point is neither you nor I can be sure. At least with the 575 you’ll remove all doubt.  Add the other junk later as you go... boat projects are fun!!

 

[Bawshogg]

Spot on. Espeically at 6200 ft. 

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

Boom. Another @IXFE knowledge bomb! 

#mindblown

[shawndoggy]

Hey did anyone mention back on page 1 that you want the SC motor for tahoe performance?  If not they shoulda!

[IXFE]

4 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Hey did anyone mention back on page 1 that you want the SC motor for tahoe performance?  If not they shoulda!

In Doggy we trust!  I even liked it!!

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by IXFE

[Bawshogg]

So if 40 plus years of inboard expierience doesn't do it for ya.... 450 it is! 

[SCMike]

4 hours ago, IXFE said:

@SCMike

I’m with @Bawshogg on this one. If high altitude performance is what you’re after, try to scrape yourself into the 575. Afterall, “SC” is in your name!!

Jokes aside, analyze every line item of your invoice looking for trade offs you’d be willing to make. If I had your requirements and was trying to squeeze into the 575 I would do the following:

Remeber, while none of these moves are huge money savers, every $ counts!! (all $’s stated 

- Get the CS Gen II Surf Bimini instead of the GL Bimini. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the CS Bimini.  It’s actually GREAT! That would save you $556.

- Skip high altitude prop. You won’t need it with the 575.  Savings $258.  Cumulative savings $814.

- Skip cockpit table.  Make sammiches at home or pick them up at Subway on your way to the lake.  Savings $465. Cumulative savings $1,279.

- Skip Phender Pro.  Using dock lines, tie off loops on two fenders at the right length so the fenders fall just below the rub rail when hung from the cleats.  Make sure the fenders are fat enough so as to stick out farther than the rub rail; this will keep your boat off the dock entirely. There’s seriously no reason for anybody to get bruises on their hands.  If that’s happening you’re doing it wrong.  Keep your fenders with those loops ties on them permanently.  Hang them on the starboard side cleats as you approach the dock (either you do it or your kids, not the wife; it takes 5 seconds). Always park on the starboard side. Savings $592.  Cumulative savings $1,871

- Skip soft grip floor. Take the free carpet. Upgrade to Gatorstep (which is better and cheaper than Malibu factory soft grip) in two years when the carpet wears out.  Save $1,425. Cumulative savings $3,296

- Skip trailer bow step and light bezel.  You can live without the bow step; you’re gonna use those transom steps 99% of the time anyway. And the light bezels are cool and cheap, but if you’re gonna make them black you won’t even notice them. Savings $391. Cumulative savings $3,687

- Skip the factory Rev 8’s and the required amp. There isn’t a more inefficient way to spend your money with Malibu than on tower speakers.  Their pricing is reduculous. This will save you $3,067.  Now I know you’re gonna say you need tower speakers.  Wait a few month/years and buy Exile SXT9Q Surf Package 1 which retails for $1,305 incl amp. Cumulative savings $6,754 (assuming you can hold off for a bit on tower speakers).  Even if you immediately get the Exiles you’re still saving over $1700 here and I promise you they’re just as good, if not better (I’ve had both).

- Now eliminate the Monsoon 450 and our cumulative savings is $14,652.  That goes a long way towards the 575.

The point is... don’t prioritize a bunch of junk that can be added easily later for something that can never be added later.  Imagine the disappointment you’ll feel the first time you’re up in the mountains and realize the 450 doesn’t cut it.  I’m not saying it will, but the point is neither you nor I can be sure. At least with the 575 you’ll remove all doubt.  Add the other junk later as you go... boat projects are fun!!

 

@IXFE While your logic is sound and I truly appreciate the thought, detail, and attendtion here, I’m 100% not going with the SC motor.  Here is my reasoning...

1. Im already stretching my budget getting into a 23lsv.  If I delete everything you recommended, I’ll still be $5k more on the MSRP then where I’m at now.  I’d basically have to strip the boat down completely in order to get into the 575.  Yes, I’ll certinaly get the optimal performance, but my on water experience will be diminsished greatly without any options.  Yes, I can add options later, but there is no way I want to wife drop another $10k in options after just spending above our budget on the boat.  This is just out of the question. It means that I won’t be able to take my family on vacations for the next 2 years.  The way I look at this is, it’s a balance.  If I had an unlimited budget, then I’d opt for the 575, but unfortunately I don’t.  

2. I’ll put around 30 hours a season on the boat in Tahoe.  The majority of the hours will be at Lakes below 1500 elevation.  If I was boating 100% of the time at Tahoe, I may reconsider, but I’m not nor will I ever.

3. I may not get optimal performance from a 410 or 450 in Tahoe, but both motors will get the job done.  If the boat just wouldn’t get on plane at all, I’d have no choice but to get into the 575. I have never heard from anyone on this forum that their 450 (or 410 for that matter) would not get on plane in Tahoe or a similar elevation.  If someone can supply some data there, I’m all ears.  

4. I don’t slam my boat like some on this site.  Im not on a mission to absolutely max out my boat and squeeze every last inch of wave or wake out of it.  I’m more about simplicity and ease of use.  I’ll fill up MLS and PNP and call it a day.  If I need to add a few lead bags in the bow then that’s as far as I’ll go.  I’d rather drain some rear ballast then have to throw a bow sack in. 

In th end, I’m just looking for balance.  I’d like to come away with a moderately optioned boat that will function on any lake I plan to take it to, and provide fun times for my friends and family.  

For me, it’s a question of if I go with a 410 450.  I am finding it really hard to pay $7k for 40 HP.  I wish they could give us another 25-30 more HP and nobody would question the upgrade cost.  $7k for a slight tune is highway robbery. 

Again, if some on this site has a 410 or 450 and has not been able to get on plain in Tahoe I’d like to know ASAP before I lock in my order. 

I’d like to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread. This truly is the best forum on the net! 98 replys and counting!  

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by SCMike

[shawndoggy]

Mike what do you mean by "not being able to get on plane?"  Are you asking whether your unloaded boat with your wife and kids will be able to cruise around the lake at 25-30 mph while you eat sandwiches on the table with fenders flopping and tunes cranking from the Rev8s?  OF COURSE IT WILL.  No problem.  If you are asking whether you can wakeboard with full factory ballast and wedge, or surf with full pnp and wedge, the answer is going to be no... at least not without propping the heck out of it (you may want that 2773 after all, at least for when you are at "The Lake" (as we refer to it around here).

You should call my dealer (Ulitmate Marine) here in Reno and ask one of the sales folks about how a 410 (or 450) will perform loaded down at the lake.  They demo boats up there frequently for potential buyers.  

Having had a boat that I really liked except for the fact that it ran out of steam at altitude, this is the kind of thing that will chew at you every time you have to drain weight to get to surf speed.  Or it would me.