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Malibu surf gate


agarabaghi

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Do you think malibu will change their surfgate system to allow more fine tuning of the wave?

I know the pw2 allows you to change from mellow to steep, but i wonder if they will make it like the other manuf where you can dial in other parts of the system to change depending on people and stuff

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I agree on the simplicity aspect, and i wonder if something like gen2 from mc is just over complicating everything ...

but of course that becomes an argument points where mc buddies say they can "fine" tune their wave etc...

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Surfgate and wedge combo is definitely the simplest system out there and it works!  Kinda like having the 8 pack of crayons vs the 64 pack.  With the 64 pack your probably gonna use the same 8 colors from the 8 pack most of the time, the others are nice to have but unneeded. 

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4 hours ago, agarabaghi said:

I agree on the simplicity aspect, and i wonder if something like gen2 from mc is just over complicating everything ...

but of course that becomes an argument points where mc buddies say they can "fine" tune their wave etc...

How so?  With GSA or Gen 2 tabs you don't need a power wedge to give you flexibility with the wave.  You simply adjust the tab for steep or long.  It is also a longer more power wave.  Surf gate you are limited to how much you can slam the boat cause once the gates are too far under water they are useless.  With GSA or Gen 2 tabs there is no limit.  I run 5600 pounds & the only thing I like more about SG is the lip of the wave is firmer & cleaner than mine but by a small margin.  Seems needing gates & an additional wedge with actuators is over complicating a simple system & the boats I've been on with power wedge even though you can get less steep, you can't get any near the length & power of the GSA or Gen 2 waves I've ridden.  With that said, I have all those options, an amazing wave & I can slap on a $200.00 nauticurl & have the exact same wave the Malibu puts off but I can't do transfers behind the boat.  Price, less materials, less electronics & stuff to go wrong seems the clear winner to me.  I also surfed an A20 with GSA on it & thought it was better than the SG T22 I rode.  

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49 minutes ago, racer808 said:

How so?  With GSA or Gen 2 tabs you don't need a power wedge to give you flexibility with the wave.  You simply adjust the tab for steep or long.  It is also a longer more power wave.  Surf gate you are limited to how much you can slam the boat cause once the gates are too far under water they are useless.  With GSA or Gen 2 tabs there is no limit.  I run 5600 pounds & the only thing I like more about SG is the lip of the wave is firmer & cleaner than mine but by a small margin.  Seems needing gates & an additional wedge with actuators is over complicating a simple system & the boats I've been on with power wedge even though you can get less steep, you can't get any near the length & power of the GSA or Gen 2 waves I've ridden.  With that said, I have all those options, an amazing wave & I can slap on a $200.00 nauticurl & have the exact same wave the Malibu puts off but I can't do transfers behind the boat.  Price, less materials, less electronics & stuff to go wrong seems the clear winner to me.  I also surfed an A20 with GSA on it & thought it was better than the SG T22 I rode.  

To be honest, I leave the GSA settings alone and use the power wedge for adjustments. No wedge when I skim... or if no crew on boat wedge down... Wedge down when I surf, if no crew up 2 clicks.. adjust for other riders... Never really saw a change in wave with the GSA adjustments except for when it washes out from not having enough..

Back to the OPS post... It is more than just mellow to steep, the firmness changes, the length changes... and with the power wedge, you are making the same adjustments that others do when they are adjusting their wave with the surf system.

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16 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

To be honest, I leave the GSA settings alone and use the power wedge for adjustments. No wedge when I skim... or if no crew on boat wedge down... Wedge down when I surf, if no crew up 2 clicks.. adjust for other riders... Never really saw a change in wave with the GSA adjustments except for when it washes out from not having enough..

Back to the OPS post... It is more than just mellow to steep, the firmness changes, the length changes... and with the power wedge, you are making the same adjustments that others do when they are adjusting their wave with the surf system.

Point taken.  Where do you have the actuator set to the tab?  I had mine all the way up closet to swim deck and it was a steep face but adjusting them with knob was useless.  I moved that pin on the tab and actuator one hole down and now I have a good amount of adjusting.  

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On 11/10/2017 at 1:52 PM, kerpluxal said:

To be honest, I leave the GSA settings alone and use the power wedge for adjustments. No wedge when I skim... or if no crew on boat wedge down... Wedge down when I surf, if no crew up 2 clicks.. adjust for other riders... Never really saw a change in wave with the GSA adjustments except for when it washes out from not having enough..

Back to the OPS post... It is more than just mellow to steep, the firmness changes, the length changes... and with the power wedge, you are making the same adjustments that others do when they are adjusting their wave with the surf system.

Same in my experience. I set the GSA tab (it's always in the same spot), then use the wedge to adjust wave. I pretty much run as much wedge as I can and still maintain desired speed... this is highly dependent on crew.

Has anyone added extensions to the top of surfgate for situations where too much ballast sinks the gate too far?

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3 minutes ago, TimbrSS said:

Same in my experience. I set the GSA tab (it's always in the same spot), then use the wedge to adjust wave. I pretty much run as much wedge as I can and still maintain desired speed... this is highly dependent on crew.

Has anyone added extensions to the top of surfgate for situations where too much ballast sinks the gate too far?

I had a DIY gate that was significantly larger than a stock surf gate. 

Our wave was huge but the older larger swim platform would crush the lip.  Even so,  it was a super fun wave to ride but doing airs sucked with no lip.  They were more like ollies at the top of the wave than airs.  I would have loved to see what the wave was like with a smaller platform.  I was going to make a smaller platform for it but we traded it in this year. 

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What would be cool is if they could make the Power wedge rotate/swing left and right.  You could evenly weight the boat and use the wedge to add list. 

Listed transfers!!! 

Not sure if that would actually work or not but if that did not then how about dual wedge one on both sides?

There are plenty of things to try and I'm sure we will have another "game changer" soon. 

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1 hour ago, vanamp said:

What would be cool is if they could make the Power wedge rotate/swing left and right.  You could evenly weight the boat and use the wedge to add list. 

Listed transfers!!! 

Not sure if that would actually work or not but if that did not then how about dual wedge one on both sides?

There are plenty of things to try and I'm sure we will have another "game changer" soon. 

Didn’t centurion have something like that, some sort of giant wing. 

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6 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

I could see surfgate having fine tuning. Like let’s say it automatically goes to the preferred normal setting but then you can fine tune from there. 

I think it might be possible with lenco position switch after maliview before actuators.. just need to find out if the actuators are compatible with position switch. Maliview is either on or off for SG.. adding the switch would allow u to adjust easily.. I think the tabs need a few position options for different wave styles. 

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Maybe they could split surfgate into two pieces and you could deploy the top and bottom half of surfgate at different angles. 

I can think of lots of things to do but most would result on a transom full of lencos.  Not very pretty

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2 hours ago, MadMan said:

Maybe Malibu will start offering adjustable surf gates as an option.  They could charge a couple thousand dollars for what might be just a software change.

Should or could be my guess is it's probably a 1-10v signal .. hope to find out this winter but need to see if the larger actuators are in fact able to be adjusted with the Lenco adjustment switch

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There is something to be said for simplicity.  I was on a Centurion Ri237 and the owner got into sort of a conniption fit about the goofy wave settings because the wave went to crap because they had 2 more people in the boat than usual.  So he searched online and found the right had to be at 75% and the left at 48% with the front ballast XX% full, and on and on and on.    It made me glad I own a boat where I hit 'surf' on the settings and it is a pretty dang solid surf wave without all the machinations people who own these boats go through.  Adjustable surf tabs may be good for the 5%, but not good for the 95% of real world buyers.  

Given that the current fully deployed surf gates work pretty well for every situation, I think it would be a mistake to let us jack around with them.  

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If someone could confirm whether both surfgates deploy to the same angle, or if they're set to different angles on each side, that would answer much of the debate on here, at least for me. Until then, it's easy to speculate whether the surfgate R&D team was a couple of goofy riders and they called it a day once they got their side dialed and set the regular side to be the same (I get the underlying reason is prop rotation). Hopefully that's not the case, but the potential for a beneficial tweak is what keeps folks interested in adjustability. 

I've been behind both the Ri's and really like their waves but they were dialed by enthusiasts. It was easy to see how a non-enthusiast would have fits with all their settings, so that's not the boat for most people. 

Edited by NWBU
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The better goofy wave comes from the prop rotation.  I had a fixed platform gate the same angle on each side with even weight and my goofy wave was better. Always made me jealous when we had goofy riders out with us. 

Surfgate is definitely the easiest surf system.  My favorite wave is a dialed in Ri237 but also spent an hour on a Ri257 demo with a dealer only managing to get a barley rideable wave.  I don't think that would ever happen on a surfgate boat. 

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They do deploy to the same angle.  The difference you see from regular side to goofy isn't a matter of the delayed convergence system (at least not directly).  The goofy side tends to be better largely because of the prop torque and it's effect on the roll axis.  With a left hand rotation, the starbord side of the boat will naturally ride lower under heavy torque.  Surfing is a decidedly heave torque application.  With the starbord side lower, it's creating a bigger "hole" in the water on that side, making the surf wake slightly better there.  You can counteract some of the disparity between regular and goofy sides with a bit of extra weight on the port side of the boat. 

Dialing in the wake is one of the more fun parts of the experience (second to actually surfing, of course).  It's kind of self limiting, really, since non-enthusiasts would be far less likey to do all the tweeking or buy a boat that has all of the adjustments.  You can get a very nice wake with the presets programmed into the boat.  Tweeking takes it from good to excellent, and accounts for factors that the factory system can't cover (size of crew, experience level of riders, skim or surf style, etc.).  We spent hours messing with our boats to dial them in and enjoyed every minute.  Maybe we're just nerds...

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6 minutes ago, ajgear said:

Dialing in the wake is one of the more fun parts of the experience (second to actually surfing, of course). 

From what's I see discussed in this forum, I'm not sure that's true.  Seems like there is a lot more talk about dialing in a surf wave than talking about actual surfing.

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20 minutes ago, ajgear said:

They do deploy to the same angle.  The difference you see from regular side to goofy isn't a matter of the delayed convergence system (at least not directly).  The goofy side tends to be better largely because of the prop torque and it's effect on the roll axis.  With a left hand rotation, the starbord side of the boat will naturally ride lower under heavy torque.  Surfing is a decidedly heave torque application.  With the starbord side lower, it's creating a bigger "hole" in the water on that side, making the surf wake slightly better there.  You can counteract some of the disparity between regular and goofy sides with a bit of extra weight on the port side of the boat. 

Dialing in the wake is one of the more fun parts of the experience (second to actually surfing, of course).  It's kind of self limiting, really, since non-enthusiasts would be far less likey to do all the tweeking or buy a boat that has all of the adjustments.  You can get a very nice wake with the presets programmed into the boat.  Tweeking takes it from good to excellent, and accounts for factors that the factory system can't cover (size of crew, experience level of riders, skim or surf style, etc.).  We spent hours messing with our boats to dial them in and enjoyed every minute.  Maybe we're just nerds...

Thanks for confirming the surf gate angles are similar. And therein lies my issue since the prop rotation effect is different on each side and I want to see some factory set difference to partially factor that in.

I know how to dial in a 2017 23 LSV, having learned from one of the best on here, and I’ve seen the waves of most guys asking about this, so my take is it’s not so much a matter of knowledge or time spent playing with settings, but rather hoping we’re set up by the factory to take full advantage of the BU’s user friendly settings.

Edited by NWBU
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21 minutes ago, NWBU said:

Thanks for confirming the surf gate angles are similar. And therein lies my issue since the prop rotation effect is different on each side and I want to see some factory set difference to partially factor that in.

I know how to dial in a 2017 23 LSV, having learned from one of the best on here, and I’ve seen the waves of most guys asking about this, so my take is it’s not so much a matter of knowledge or time spent playing with settings, but rather hoping we’re set up by the factory to take full advantage of the BU’s user friendly settings.

In its simplistic design there is nothing you can do to counter act the prop rotation. When you increase the angle too much you can't drive straight.  The harder the angle the better the wave.  The surfgate deployed angle is simply the max angle where you can still drive the boat. 

 

This is based on my time tweeking my DIY gate.  

Edited by vanamp
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