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SacRiverRat

CC&R's

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SacRiverRat

Have some fairly restrictive CC&R's in my neck of the woods.. I don't live in any gated community, but they do call out that you can't have anything parked in your driveway for more than 48hrs (separated by >48hrs).

This is also not one of those "little lot" communities, where parking on your driveway inhibits anyone's view, sidewalk (there isn't any) or roadway.. I'm on a 1/3acre lot, there is plenty of room..

Most of my neighbors park their cars in their driveways - in direct violation of the CC&R's... in fact, while the Pimpala was torn down last year, I even parked in my driveway for most of the year without any notice..

Last week, I pulled the boat out to prep it for a camping trip, and it ended up being parked in the driveway for a couple of days. I received a notice and a pic of the boat stating I was in violation. Based on the pic, I can see they took it with less than 48hrs of it being parked there..

Ok.. ok... enough whining... sooooo I don't think they can actually do anything about it. I'm a bit cheezed that they sent me something within days of my boat coming out - wasn't like it was there for even a week. And most people on my street violate the same CC&R by parking their cars in their driveway...

Question - should I call the person on the letter & b**** about the other people on my street.. should I tell them to go away and call off their apparent CC&R Nazi that is hasslin me? Should I just smile and ignore it and put my boat away as soon as I get around to feeling like moving it to the side yard? Biggrin.gif

.. maybe I just need a hug - lol

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Jimmy Buffett

Check your CC&Rs and see what the penalties are. Some have stiff fines that they can enforce (and do) in court. Some states also allow a lien on your property for unpaid CC&R fines that will be collected when you sell the place (plus interest). Not a pretty sight.

If the rules are enforced inconsistently I'd definitely complain (or worse, let my wife complain).

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jetskipro550

I would let em have it Mad.gif I know that our neighborhood has certain building restrictinos when building a new house and when my parents built 18 years ago they had to spend about 10,000 more then they planned to make the neighborhood happy. Well about 5 years ago some goober Crazy.gif bought a crapy little lot and was only going to put some POS (which he did) on the land. When a few of the neighbors confronted him and actually tried to help him out he told them that he would sue everyone in the neighborhood. One of the guys who offered to help him "redesign" his house was a builder/engineer and they gy refused his help. After some of the neighbors looked into the legal case against this guy they found that our neighborhood "laws" wouldn't stand up at all in court so they just let him build his crapy house/ugly house. My dad was a little upset when he found this out because he had to pay extra money years ago just to find out that the neighborhood laws weren't really enforcable. So if I were you I would fight the neighborhood and try to leave your boat out. Maybe even a letter will scare them enough to forget about your boat?

BTW my neighborhood isn't really nice or anything just basic houses in the 200-400 thousand price range. So its not like our rules for our neighborhood called for an incredible house to be built or anything like that. We also arn't supposed to have things in the street for a long period of time but unless everyone hates you they arn't going to complain. Good luck!

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SacRiverRat

Yea, I can't imagine anyone actually complained about my boat.. I mean it is out there bringin UP the values, and IMPROVING the view ;)

Just seems funny that they are being selective as to what portion of the code (they sent it to me and it clearly lists auto/trucks with boats, RV's) they enforce, as well as how quickly they called me on it.. someone needs something more to do..

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jklein

Troy:

Is it a private HOA or is it the CSD?

I know quite a bit about CC&Rs, especially those enforced by the EDH CSD. The CC&Rs are a contract that you agreed to when you bought your property. The enforcement is really up to your own HOA or the CSD. The neighborhood narc usually simply either takes a report from a neighbor who reported the violation or does regular "rounds".

Some CC&R provisions are more problematic than others... or cause more "neighbor irritation" than others. RV Parking, Boat Parking, Trailers, Portable Basketball hoops tend to be the kinds of things that get reported most often, thus garner the most attention.

48 hours is kind of the norm. The reasoning is that it gives the home owner enough time to prep/store. You should not need more time than that to either prepare the vehicle for an upcoming trip, or clean it up after a trip to put it away.

If you've corrected the issue (boat is put away) simply reply to the letter and let them know. They will likely do a quick check and close the issue. They might not even check up.

If they're sending you a notice and you did not violate the 48 hour rule, I would tell them that you are aware of the CC&R section and that your boat was not out longer than the 48 hours stipulated in the CC&Rs, and that your boat is never out beyond what the CC&Rs allow and that you are in full compliance.

As far pleading the "everyone else is doing it" case, I think you'll find that the CC&Rs cover that situation and it's basically "not an excuse".

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SacRiverRat
As far pleading the "everyone else is doing it" case, I think you'll find that the CC&Rs cover that situation and it's basically "not an excuse".

Mad.gif Damn it! I figured, since I'm older than 5... that probably wouldn't get me very far.. Biggrin.gif

It is CSD - and I'm assuming it was a neighborhood narc, because I know all my neighbors well, and like I said, I just pulled the dang thing out.

Of course it is still in my driveway, becuase I was thinking about using it Friday or this weekend... and didn't feel like packing it away on the side yard, since I have to drive on my lawn.

The letter I received was a polite warning letter, and doesn't require a follow up.. but it is early in the season, and I plan to have it in my driveway on occasion. So I was trying to get a read as to what they could do.

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stewart

We have the same thing in my neighborhood. I have notices when my 5th wheel trailer was just parked in front of house for less than 24 hours. Total PITA. How can you always load, unload, etc. inside those constraints?

Anyway, bottom line, they just send you the letter. If they constantly have to send you one, meaning lots of complaints, they may have you come down to a board meeting and publicly slap you hand. The latter is what they wanted to do to me.

So, I told the property management that they were harassing me and that a neighbor had it in for me :lol: I told them, my attorney advised me (Bullsh....t ) to give them a call each time my trailer would be in front of the house and when it will be moved. I also told them that they should advise the complainers, that we have a right according to CCR's to be able to park for 48hrs. Now the property manager can tell the complaining SOB's, that they/we are aware of it. And guess what, since we started doing this, no complaints.

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actionadd

I'm glad I live in the country on 20 Acers.

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jklein

Troy:

What you likely got was called a "good neighbor" letter. It may have been sent to you by Cindy at the CSD or by a resident volunteer who reports possible violatons to Cindy.

While the CC&Rs are a PITA sometimes, you've got to remember that they are there to prevent your neighborhood from becoming South Central LA where vehicles are parked all over lawns and neighborhoods fall into dis-repair. They do help keep your property values up.

The reality of the situation is that if you wanted to get nasty with them, it would take a long long long time for the CSD to do anything serious. Eventually they will notify the sheriff that there's a "non-op" vehicle on the property and that it needs to be towed. A "non-op" vehicle is any vehicle that can't move ... in this case on land ... under it's own power. The county sheriff has the jurisdiction to tow "non-ops" and impound them.

However, before that you will get (1) a good neighbor letter, (2) a Wayne Lowry (WL the CSD's attorney) notice, and (3) a third and final notice to comply with the CC&R statutes once the CSD board has reviewed the case and approved the third and final. If nothing is done about the violation after the 3rd and final, legal action can be taken, and that's when the Sheriff will be called in to tow the vehicle.

The best thing to do is to find the reporter (i.e. narc) and take them out for a good time on the lake. That should take the pressure off of you.

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SacRiverRat

John,

Yes, you seem to know way too much about the EDH CSD.. The letter was from Cindy, and while I agree that CC&R's have their place, just seemed odd that I'd get one for the boat right away, when every one of my neighbors parks multiple cars in the driveway, and the street (which is also a no-no) RTFM.gif

I think my course of action is to just go about my business, and put it away as soon as I can, and make an effort not to leave it out for more than a day or so. Now if they could just get the guy down the street to water his lawn (dead ugly front yard) I'd be ok..

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HoustonPerson

Your lucky. In Houston, each subdivision has it's own political mafia (HOA of sorts).............They routinely take houses away here without cause or notification..........They are very selective on who they want to target or whos house they want to take away. There is very little protection for the homeowner.

There is another case of such an event almost every month in the paper or on TV. Very common.

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auto
Your lucky.  In Houston, each subdivision has it's own political mafia (HOA of sorts).............They routinely take houses away here without cause or notification..........They are very selective on who they want to target or whos house they want to take away.  There is very little protection for the homeowner.

There is another case of such an event almost every month in the paper or on TV.  Very common.

Same in Richardson (suburb of Dallas). I park my boats in the back which is within the rules and still got a letter, called them, chewed their a** and said go for it. I have extensive history with the HOA (not positive), the board wanted to sue me last year for slander, I had my attorney send them a letter and that died down.

The co-boat owner wants to move close to work, so we are off to Dallas. Not even a hint of an HOA, and very loose CCR's. Bad news, 200K more for the same house and 5K a year in more property taxes. Good news, I will not have to threaten bodily harm and lawsuits to live in peace.

Cornbread the HOA's. Home value has not suffered in Dallas or HP without the Nazi's. I hate wannabe rich people Mad.gifMad.gif

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waimo

and you guys live in the land of the free are you saying you cant park your boat on your own drive for more than 24 hours

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Sunsetter95

There are people in Phx that have lost their homes over CC&R disputes.

You need to know your rules.

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BillFooter

While we may complain about the rules, we bought our property with full knowledge of what those rules were. The rules are almost always there to support the intended use of the property and property values. We have some dumb rules where I live too, but I knew we had them before I bought the property. The only thing that would bother me is if they are not enforced evenly for all of the residents.

Bill

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Sunsetter95
While we may complain about the rules, we bought our property with full knowledge of what those rules were.  The rules are almost always there to support the intended use of the property and property values.  We have some dumb rules where I live too, but I knew we had them before I bought the property.  The only thing that would bother me is if they are not enforced evenly for all of the residents.

Bill

Here... Here... I heard that.

Fair play....Hmmmm... I've heard of that before!

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Lakenut

I don't get whats wrong with having a $30,000+ boat sitting in the driveway occasoinally. My boat stays in the garage and never sits out. But what is wrong with one sitting out for a few days. Hmm...lets see. Its ok to have a $15,000 car in the driveway but not for an expensive luxury item? go figure.

On the other hand, if you look at the intent of the HOAs it probably is a good idea. If you park you Bu in the driveway whats to keep Billy Bob from parking his 1975 POS glasstron in his? Heck, we had a neighbor once (my wife lovingly called white trash) that had such a boat. Only when he got back from the lake it didn't stay in the drive way untill he put it away. He would drive his rig across his corner lot and leave his truck and boat parked their in the yard untill he sobered up, which was usually a couple of days. Forget HOA rules, this is aginst city rules and you better belive we raised [email protected]$% about it. Ranting.gif The city would do something but our HOA is worthless and told us that we could hire a lawyer if we wanted action.Fingerwag.gif

I guess it is a matter of how serious your neighborhood assn. is.

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martho

As many stated above, the rules can be enforced and often times you will end up with a lien against the property for unpaid violations. Furthermore, most HOA/CSD/CCR have clauses that if you are in violation and you fight, you will also pay the atty fees for the HOA/CSD/CCR.

While I am a boater, I would hate to stare at someone's boat all day for 5 months or worse yet, year around. The rules are not written to exclude nice boats. I agree that a nice bu or nice boat is no big deal. However, the rules usually cannot distinguish between a 2005 RLXi and a 1978 brown/yellow tri hull with a ripped cover and a rusted out trailer.

You knew the rules/regs when you moved in and they cannot be a surprise now.

I have a similar clause in my HOA, however I made sure the boat fit in the garage when I bought the house. My wife was looking at the bathroom and I was measuring the garage. I would not purchase a house in an HOA where the boat couldn't go in the garage or have a garage built/modified to fit.

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whiteVLX

We have CCR's in our neighborhood. Trouble is our HOA was run by the developer since the inception of the development. It wasn't until just a few months ago that we took over the association. The development was built in 7 stages and the rules have clearly not been enforced since the beginning. At least 30 of us out of 140 have been here for 4-6 years. We've all more or less played by the rules but when the latecomers arrived they have "stretched" the rules. Trouble is what used to be just talking to your neighbors to see if they had any problems with something you were doing has turned into a full blown war of attempted enforcement. I say attempted because they haven't been enforced in so long I doubt if they would stand and there has been a lot of precedents set in regards to secondary structures which are in some cases in clear violation of the CCR's. We're in a wait and see attitude about the whole thing but I'm hoping it doesn't come down to legal action. If it does were out of here, I don't want any part of having to foot the bill because joe across the street doesn't like the color of stain jim used on his fence.

BTW, you might consider trying to buy your way out of your assosiation. My inlaws lived in a HOA and were caught with a legal battle going on like I mentioned above. They were getting assesments on order of 2-3K a quarter to pay the legal bills for a dispute between two neighbors. Anyhow aftersome time they contacted a lawyer who was skilled in HOA's. In their situation they didn't even really live in the development. There house was accessed by a county road behind the development. Anyhow there lawyer suggested a separation agreement from the HOA. The HOA agreed for a lump sum cash payment. I believe it cost them 15K to get out of it, but they figured it was money well spent.

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RTS
Heck, we had a neighbor once (my wife lovingly called white trash)

You want white trash??? My sister's neighbor was drunk and went to start his airboat in the driveway and blew down his own wooden privacy fence.

That, my friend, is white trash...

BTW, this drunk clown has one hell of a fireworks show on July 4th. I'm guessing he blows 2-3 weeks pay on the bottle rockets alone. It lasts a long time too, because it takes the fool about a minute to get each fuse lit with his cigarette.

Edited by rts

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RTS
You knew the rules/regs when you moved in and they cannot be a surprise now.

Enough said...

If the rules and regs are a surprise to you, you could probably sue your closing attorney or title insurance company for not letting you know your property was encumbered by a HOA when they did a title search...

Also, you may have a case against your HOA for selective enforcement of the Deeds/Restrictions if they are being so harsh on you, but ignoring the rest of the violations in the neighborhood.

Edited by rts

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jsaxton
Heck, we had a neighbor once (my wife lovingly called white trash)

You want white trash??? My sister's neighbor was drunk and went to start his airboat in the driveway and blew down his own wooden privacy fence.

That, my friend, is white trash...

BTW, this drunk clown has one hell of a fireworks show on July 4th. I'm guessing he blows 2-3 weeks pay on the bottle rockets alone. It lasts a long time too, because it takes the fool about a minute to get each fuse lit with his cigarette.

Too funny...I can just see that happening ROFL.gif

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MARiley

i'd swallow my pride. if you go to the hoa and they say "well, it looks like time to give everyone a ticket." i'm sure your neighbors would love ya then...

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stewart
and you guys live in the land of the free are you saying you cant park your boat on your own drive for more than 24 hours

No. We live in Kalifornia :)

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auto
You knew the rules/regs when you moved in and they cannot be a surprise now.

Enough said...

If the rules and regs are a surprise to you, you could probably sue your closing attorney or title insurance company for not letting you know your property was encumbered by a HOA when they did a title search...

Also, you may have a case against your HOA for selective enforcement of the Deeds/Restrictions if they are being so harsh on you, but ignoring the rest of the violations in the neighborhood.

Which was exactly my point. Enforce the rules according to the CCR and equally. I still can't wait to move where there are no HOA's. Happiness is worth every bit of the extra cash. :)

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