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dreamfield

Surf Setup on 2006 VLX

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dreamfield

I've been looking through the forums but haven't found this specific discussion yet, but maybe i'm missing it.  I could use some help on the proper setup, or maybe i'm just expecting too much from the boat. I'm trying to dial in the surf wave on my 2006 VLX, using the acme prop,  Delta Wake Shaper, no listing anymore, full wedge and ballast, and can't seem to get the wave to have enough length and push. I watch others ride with ease but it seems like the wave is more direct behind their boats, versus what i'm getting.    The wave seems very tight to the platform, is decently large, and the face is pretty clean, but seems to go more wide to the side of the boat than it does back behind it, which makes it difficult to stay in the pocket without riding up on the swim platform or being out to the side of the boat versus behind.  I should add that i prefer to ride normal, so i know its better on the goofy side because of prop rotation.    Any recommendations?  I was thinking more ballast in the front to try to lengthen it but i get nervous with the nose getting closer to the water. I've tried full stock, full wedge, extra 400lbs in each rear locker, another 550 up front.   I even invested in a new LF Keen skim board vs original 2007 CWB ride board this year so i'm committed to trying to dial this in.   

My next try will be full stock ballast (250/250 rear, 500 center, 250 front), plus 910 bags in rear lockers, then a 400 lb vdrive fatsac in the center walkway and 1 more in the front.  I have 2 more 275 lb fat sacs to play with. Sounds like a lot of weight plus 6 adults and 8 kids and it gets pretty cramped.  I'm worried about that 1000 lbs up front when in turning around in chop or my wife driving the boat on turn arounds. 

Any advice or recommendations on anything else to try, or am i expecting too much.  I watch others do it with ease, so i'm not fully recognizing that its surfer error, although it very well could be.  I'd rather have a longer smaller wake if it meant more time riding without the rope.  I'm 6' 210 lbs as well, so maybe less beer would also be the answer.  

Love the forum and i've gotten a lot of great advice from this site over the 10 years i've owned my BU. Thanks in advance.  

 

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TimbrSS

What speed are using? You have plenty of weight, especially with all those people. It's all about getting the weight balance correct. I'd go around 11.6 with all your weight. If you can't hit that speed, drop rear ballast (and/or wedge) until you get up to that speed. I said rear because you mentioned fear of weight in the front. If you can get to 11.6, just start dropping front ballast until the wave stops getting better or the nose gets too high (and the prop is pointed at the bottom of the lake) and it's hard to maintain speed. You can play around with listing it a bit to the surf side, just have your passengers move around to figure out quickly if that will help you.

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Doublee133

dreamfield, I was having a heck of a time with my 05 23LSV similar to what you talked about. I know the boats are a bit different but I have the 4 stock under floor tanks full with 1250, and a 900 bag in each rear vdrive hatch and another 600 in the bow (Total 3650lbs). I had 5 people in the boat with a home made suck gate. I did NOT use my manual wedge it washes the wake out. I can tell you that if one person moved to a different spot the wave could wash out and have all white wash but if the one person moved back to the surf side the wave cleaned up. I was driving at 11.5-12 MPH on perfect pass so that could be off a tad, 12 seemed to be better for me. I also only have the stock acme 537 that can go 12 but cannot go much faster after surfing was done. I had to empty the stock rears 250 each to get moving. I also like folks say make sure to mount your suck gate as far back and as low on the hull as you can get it to stick. Mine is about 2-3 inches forward from the rear and about 2-3 inches up from the bottom. Our hulls are curved and some suck gates wont stick in this area. I used the red harbor freight handle with has softer rubber pads and it works great so far. 

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dreamfield

Thanks for the quick replies.   I'm finding that we typically run at 11.2-11.6 or higher. I've played with up to 13 mph too, so getting up to speed hasn't been a problem probably because of the prop i have and i haven't tried the 900 lb sacs in the rear yet since those are on their way now, so i might be speaking too soon.  I used to list the boat up until i got the delta wakeshaper, and have only played around with it one weekend so far, but i really like not having to pile people to one side and it seems to work pretty well and the human ballast seems to enjoy not sitting on each other's laps.    I too try to put the wake shaper as far back on the boat as possible, and usually end up with it towards the bottom because the hull shape you mentioned and the logo towards the top where it won't stick.   The funny thing is i think the surf wave looks awesome at a slow wakeboard speed up in the 18-20 mph range but that's way too fast for surfing, so speed hasn't been my issue yet, but i'm guessing it will be once i add more weight.  I tried running without the wedge too and it wasn't as clean, and i typically only run it all the way down, otherwise it does seem to wash it out when its somewhere in the middle.  The boat i have doesn't have a very accurate wedge gauge, so i'm usually all or nothing on it.  Sounds like i should try to play more without the wedge at all, since maybe that's just compounding the issue.  I also have the pre-perfect pass cruise control, so that could very well be off enough so maybe i just think i'm going faster than I actually am.   Thanks for the quick replies.     

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95echelon

Make sure you are GPS checking your speed...

Also the wedge can be well utilized along with a shaper. I think both @dreamfield and @Doublee133 could benefit from more weight up front, maybe some in the walkway as well. I also list the boat just a bit towards the surf side. We get amazing waves on the regular side like this but they can EASILY wash out (whereas my goofy side is hard to wash out) . 

I ran my 400 up front this weekend in a pinch instead of my 1000 lb and the regular wave washed out much easier.

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TimbrSS

I misunderstood and thought you had the 900's in already... still try what I said by draining off the nose weight until you cant hold speed, or the wave stops getting better. My buddy's Enzo 244 with a nauticurl seriously is 1 foot higher and 50% more push by moving 100# of lead from the bow to the rear.

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95echelon
18 minutes ago, TimbrSS said:

I misunderstood and thought you had the 900's in already... still try what I said by draining off the nose weight until you cant hold speed, or the wave stops getting better. My buddy's Enzo 244 with a nauticurl seriously is 1 foot higher and 50% more push by moving 100# of lead from the bow to the rear.

Wedge down, 1000 up front, 900's in the rear with non surf side drained a bit, MLS Full including front tank. Suck gate low and far back. couple of 50 pound kids in the boat. Add more human ballast and the wave gets better and better. 

Slam it, and toss the weight up front. You can even try less weight in the rear. This keeps the wetted surface longer and makes a better wave.

Girl is 5'2"

 

XixtzRX.png

Edited by 95echelon

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dreamfield

Sounds like having 1000 up front isn't a concern for you all but just to double check, that's on a 21'er or larger 23'+?   Does that include the stock ballast or in addition to it?   Does weight in the walkway pushed as far forward count as front Is it not far enough forward to counterbalance the rear weight?   I'm guessing to get that much weight up front people are using the bow bag as opposed to piling up a bunch of other bags. Once I get the weight right, maybe i'll sell the 400s and 275s to get the bow bag and less fill effort.  Sounds like the kids are losing their seats up front.  

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95echelon
17 minutes ago, dreamfield said:

Sounds like having 1000 up front isn't a concern for you all but just to double check, that's on a 21'er or larger 23'+?   Does that include the stock ballast or in addition to it?   Does weight in the walkway pushed as far forward count as front Is it not far enough forward to counterbalance the rear weight?   I'm guessing to get that much weight up front people are using the bow bag as opposed to piling up a bunch of other bags. Once I get the weight right, maybe i'll sell the 400s and 275s to get the bow bag and less fill effort.  Sounds like the kids are losing their seats up front.  

My kids just sit on "the waterbed" up front.

1000 triangle sack up front, I very rarely do a walkway sack. That is the 21.5 VLX (the same exact boat/hull as yours). I have the wakemaker piggybacks (980lbs each) in the rear and full MLS (1250 pounds, I do fill the bow tank). Your boat may not have a bow tank though it was an option.

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nlouthan

Just got back from a week at Lake Shasta with lots of surfing.  I ran MLS full (4 tanks), PW full down, 400 lbs in each locker, half full 1,000 pound triangle in bow and Mission Delta with blade about even with the last letter of "Malibu" on the the side and below the crease in the side of the hull.  The goofy peeps could go back 15 feet and come back to the platform.  The regular riders could go back almost as far.

I'm running an ACME 2773 15x13 prop.

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dreamfield

Sounds like the waterbed is the way to go. I have the bow tank but I like the idea of only having 1 sac to fill and empty instead of multiple and if I can gain back the walkway space then that's a plus too.  Looking forward to trying out all the mods this weekend.  Thanks again for the input.  

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REHinH20

I run 500 in each locker, all MLS full, wedge 100% and the Nauticurl suck gate opposite surfer. I recently switched to the ACME 1235 and it made more difference than anything else I did.  I run right at 11 mph.  I ask a few passengers to get in bow, but other than that no extra bow weight.  I have found that water deeper than 20 ft there is a much better wave.  I have the wake hull, so have no experience with diamond (not knowing which you have).  Hope some of all this info will help.

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stags79

I have been running my 06 vlx with mls full, 750s in the rear lockers, and 800 in the bow.  I don't have a wedge, but have been able to get a decent wave on both sides with a wicked wake.  I have been playing with a suck gate recently, trying to dial in the size and angle of the gate.  I am running an acme 1615 with great results.  I was able to surf with this set-up and a stock 537 for a summer, but didn't hold the speed as well.

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dreamfield

I wanted to give an update after my trials this weekend.  Full MLS and wedge, suck gate, additional 800 in each rear and 800 up front and the wave was huge with great push, so the advice on here was spot on.  I just ordered the 1000 lb bag for the front because I think it could use more and also the supports for the engine covers because when I fill the 910 all the way up it definitely popped out the plastic engine dividers.  Suck gate was mounted just below the Malibu letters before it steps down.  Best wave I've ridden and felt like I could ride forever.  I will say even with the 1235 prop she definitely took her time to get up to 11.6 mph.  I'm hoping the extra weight up front will give me a little more length for a bigger pocket to play in.  Thanks everyone for the advice. 

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95echelon
6 minutes ago, dreamfield said:

I wanted to give an update after my trials this weekend.  Full MLS and wedge, suck gate, additional 800 in each rear and 800 up front and the wave was huge with great push, so the advice on here was spot on.  I just ordered the 1000 lb bag for the front because I think it could use more and also the supports for the engine covers because when I fill the 910 all the way up it definitely popped out the plastic engine dividers.  Suck gate was mounted just below the Malibu letters before it steps down.  Best wave I've ridden and felt like I could ride forever.  I will say even with the 1235 prop she definitely took her time to get up to 11.6 mph.  I'm hoping the extra weight up front will give me a little more length for a bigger pocket to play in.  Thanks everyone for the advice. 

I have the 2419 and can plane to wakeboard speed easily with: 4K ballast, wedge, and 3 adults. The motor can easily handle it, you would give up some top speed and fuel economy though moving props.

 

glad you had a good day on the water!

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95echelon
On 8/8/2017 at 10:52 AM, stags79 said:

I have been running my 06 vlx with mls full, 750s in the rear lockers, and 800 in the bow.  I don't have a wedge, but have been able to get a decent wave on both sides with a wicked wake.  I have been playing with a suck gate recently, trying to dial in the size and angle of the gate.  I am running an acme 1615 with great results.  I was able to surf with this set-up and a stock 537 for a summer, but didn't hold the speed as well.

I do think the wedge makes a big difference (others hate it). If you ever find one used I would snag it. 

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goodmatt78

You put the suckgate above the step down?   Is it even in the water?   I put mine just below the step, so at rest the entire gate is just below water line.

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dreamfield

I was trying below the step down but I think it was just too deep so you didn't see any spray at all.  I have the delta wake shaper so watching those videos says you want a little bit of spray and it fits(just barely) between the letters and the step down.  With all that weight, it puts it just below the water line but then again we had 6 adults and 5 little kids in the boat too.  I noticed the swim platform is about 4 inches under water when sitting still so that was just enough to get the boat low enough.  I was worried about how much weight the boat could handle but I was amazed that adding 4K pounds from empty and it was still floating fine.  Just a little slow out of the blocks and probably chews gas.  I have the monsoon 340 and I think the wedge does make a difference.  

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dreamfield

I wanted to provide an update 2 years later, because my suckgate appears to just slip back around the back of the boat and fall off and without it, i can't get a decent wave at all.   I'm considering upgrading to the GSA system, but i'm looking to see what people might have done to make the transition from surf to kid-towing less painful.   I've heard of the piggy back system, but i seem to find the bags in the rear lockers require quite a bit of attention to make sure they fill evenly in the locker.    I spent over an hour setting up and trying to get things dialed in, only to ride for 1 terrible wave run without the suck gate staying in place, so anything people can provide would be helpful.  The other thing is that i'm noticing that my speedo now needs to be at 13+ mph to get a decent wave, and i watch others going much slower.  I tested GPS speed and it seems to be pretty close, so I'm thinking something else is wrong...maybe its' all in the suckgate. 

 

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bovhica
On 9/11/2019 at 7:52 AM, dreamfield said:

I wanted to provide an update 2 years later, because my suckgate appears to just slip back around the back of the boat and fall off and without it, i can't get a decent wave at all.   I'm considering upgrading to the GSA system, but i'm looking to see what people might have done to make the transition from surf to kid-towing less painful.   I've heard of the piggy back system, but i seem to find the bags in the rear lockers require quite a bit of attention to make sure they fill evenly in the locker.    I spent over an hour setting up and trying to get things dialed in, only to ride for 1 terrible wave run without the suck gate staying in place, so anything people can provide would be helpful.  The other thing is that i'm noticing that my speedo now needs to be at 13+ mph to get a decent wave, and i watch others going much slower.  I tested GPS speed and it seems to be pretty close, so I'm thinking something else is wrong...maybe its' all in the suckgate. 

 

I have the same hull and installed GSA this year. I linked my GSA thread below if you are interested. We love GSA, but your hull is very capable and can throw a very nice clean wave with a suckgate, which we used for years before the GSA install.  FYI....GSA requires a different weight setup.  We found that with the lift from the tabs more weight is required in the rear and less in the bow, but here is how we setup our suckgate as a baseline and then made adjustments from there depending on crew, gear and conditions and rider preference.  We could get a very long wave or a shorter but massive wave by weight and speed adjustments.  Attached pics to show different waves.

Suckgate Setup:

1000 lbs in bow (no  stock bow tank in my boat) just bag on seat and some lead

Mid and rear stock tanks full

750s full in rear compartments

Floating wedge deployed

Slightly listed to surf side with people or I would drain opposite hard tank in rear. (My bags and tanks are on their own dedicated pumps, no piggyback)

10.4 to 11.4 mph for speed on paddle wheel.

I also purchased the wakesurf edge pro wakeshaper with curvature rings which help the suction cups stay attached to the hull.  It required quite a bit of pressure while locking the suction cups in place, but it only slipped off a few times and I realized it was happening after I waxed the boat, so I quit waxing the mounting locations on each side...lol. after that no problems as long as I attached it correctly with pressure.  My mounting location was as far to the rear as I could get it before the hull began to curve and on the upper section of the hull below the rub rail as as far down as i could get it before the step in the hull. 

FB_IMG_1565889992289.thumb.jpg.d80ee7f3c1326d0fbf75fb6813014c62.jpgFB_IMG_1565889749013.thumb.jpg.6c1da08d885d9874842b06c7977b09ed.jpg20190905_182134.thumb.jpg.e373067898e3cfec23732f0f19828caa.jpg20180703060507_IMG_0856.thumb.JPG.2a08c43a3da092ea93028afce2cdb200.JPGFB_IMG_1565889966319.thumb.jpg.9ae3df2c855276a9dccbc48af37e7d80.jpgFB_IMG_1565889830712.thumb.jpg.e86c7af3ad8636ba1b6d8f1fa92daaef.jpg

FB_IMG_1564179900277.jpg

Edited by bovhica

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