Bypass/Shut Off Heater Circuit?

[cpuwhiz22]

Hello all,

 

I have an 02 VLX, and I have recently noticed hot water coming from under the dash which I have traced to the heater.  I could see pretty steady leaking from the hoses, so I will try and tighten them up, however it could very well be the core.  Either way, I don't use the heater, so until this is fixed, is there a shutoff to the heater circuit or anything?  It would be nice to stop the water from flowing there at all until it's sorted out.  I would imagine there is a way to bypass this since I would find it hard to believe that the engine cooling would be subject to issues from a failure of a luxury feature like a heater.  Would be pretty scary to think that my heater line could burst and end up causing the engine to overheat, but I don't know how they designed this thing.

 

Any help is appreciated!

[dlb]

You heater hoses come off of and return to the block on the front right side of the engine.  You can buy plugs for those points and completely remove the heater.

If your system was modified the return line comes into a Y fitting on the water intake hose before the hose connects to the impeller.  You would need to  replace or splice that intake hose.

[cpuwhiz22]

@dlb 

 

When you say front right, do you mean fore-starboard?  I only ask since I know on a V drive, the front of the engine is really in the back (aft), right?  Which would mean the front right of the engine is actually port-aft.  Just trying to establish positioning.

 

Thanks!

[Ndawg12]

Pull both lines off the heater/core and connect them with one of these.

 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/B-K-5-8-in-x-5-8-in-Barbed-Splicer-Adapter-Fitting/1000253405

 

 

[Woodski]

@cpuwhiz22:  95% probability the core has a leak, very common issue.  Be real careful if you decide to tighten the hoses, copper tubes can be crushed fairly easily so tread carefully there.  Rarely if ever does a hose connection ever simply start leaking, usually they bond themselves together to guarantee you will draw blood from skinned knuckles taking them apart.  The splice connector should stop the leak, just FYI, my heater is in the garage and the hoses are spliced together because of the heater core springing a leak, heater cores are designed for coolant not lake water which is pretty corrosive to the core.  The most recent batch of marine heater cores appear to be much better.  A radiator shop can repair your core, it will only be a short term fix until the next joint pops a leak, but it is much more cost effective to a new core (unless you go the low $ automotive core from any parts store).

[cpuwhiz22]

@Ndawg12 @Woodski

I think it's the core since I was out this weekend and had the same old leak dispite me tightening the clamps.  With that said, I am going to bypass the core by closing the in/out lines for now.  I wanted to confirm the diameter needed for the coupler.  What @Ndawg12 linked is 5/8".  Is this accurate?  Also, I noticed the pressure rating is 150 psi, and the max operating temp is 167 (should be ok, but oddly the same type od adapter at HD says like 75F for max).  Is this adequate?  Thanks!

 

EDIT: I just found this one at HD:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Chief-5-8-in-x-5-8-in-Plastic-Barb-x-Barb-Splicer-904-122501/100138048

 

What do you think?

 

Or would Brass be better?  My worry is temperature and having the thing fail and pieces of it sucked into the engine.  I think brass might be a little safer?

 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/BrassCraft-5-8-in-x-5-8-in-Barbed-Splicer-Coupling-Fitting/50359458

Edited August 14, 2017 by cpuwhiz22

[Woodski]

@cpuwhiz22:  Most cores are 5/8" hoses, that is the size typically used on the engine side.  One item to note, fittings from H-D will not necessarily be automotive but more on the sprinkler or home application variety so may not be rated for your coolant temp.  I put shut off valves on my lines to keep the raw water from running through the core when not needed.  Still used an automotive splicer when removing the heater for a all too often core repair / replacement.

[cpuwhiz22]

@WoodskiI think I will go with the brass.  Also, do I need to worry about air getting in when I disconnect the hoses from the core to splice them together?

[Woodski]

@cpuwhiz22:  No on air, but do expect some water to come out so be prepared for that.  When you tip the heater unit, you can also tip it in a way that will drain the core. There are plastic splicers available that will handle expected temperatures, available at any auto parts store or places like Walmart with an automotive section.

[cpuwhiz22]

I haven't updated this, but here is where I am at.  As others suggested, I believe the core is shot since my efforts to tighten the hose clamps didn't yield any results.

At this point, I have ripped out all of the under dash obstacles to get to the heater and remove the hoses.  I have them disconnected and I have the heater removed, along with the core.  At this point, despite me probably never using the heater, I do not want to have to pull everything apart again so I am likely going to try and source a replacement core (my heater is a Heatercraft 300-H).  I am thinking that I may put tees in there with some shut off valves so I can bypass the core now, and when the replacement core comes in I won't have to remove hoses from the splicer or anything and can just hook up to the heater.  I figure it's probably not a bad idea to put this all in now since I have it all torn apart.

Anyhow, I am struggling to find any sort of shut off valves for 5/8" ID hose.  Does anyone know where I can find something like this?  My plan is to put a shut off between the in/out, as well as shut offs above that to the in/out on the core so I can bypass the heater if I want.

[Woodski]

@cpuwhiz22:  Home Depot / Lowes / Menards / Ace / Do It Best / TSC / Grainger / McMaster Carr.  Search 5/8" brass shut off valve.

[tvano]

On 8/27/2017 at 6:06 PM, cpuwhiz22 said:

I haven't updated this, but here is where I am at.  As others suggested, I believe the core is shot since my efforts to tighten the hose clamps didn't yield any results.

At this point, I have ripped out all of the under dash obstacles to get to the heater and remove the hoses.  I have them disconnected and I have the heater removed, along with the core.  At this point, despite me probably never using the heater, I do not want to have to pull everything apart again so I am likely going to try and source a replacement core (my heater is a Heatercraft 300-H).  I am thinking that I may put tees in there with some shut off valves so I can bypass the core now, and when the replacement core comes in I won't have to remove hoses from the splicer or anything and can just hook up to the heater.  I figure it's probably not a bad idea to put this all in now since I have it all torn apart.

Anyhow, I am struggling to find any sort of shut off valves for 5/8" ID hose.  Does anyone know where I can find something like this?  My plan is to put a shut off between the in/out, as well as shut offs above that to the in/out on the core so I can bypass the heater if I want.

you can avoid expensive shut-off valves by placing brass garden hose barbs in the right location(s).

i've purchased 2 male/female sets and placed under the dog house where the hoses start to the front of the boat.

if i've got a core leak i can disconnect both fittings in the engine room and connect male to female to drop the core out of the flow.

no valves required.

[Woodski]

My use for shut off valves is to stop water supply to the core when not needed, due to corrosive nature of raw water on the core(s).  It is not if, simply when the core will start leaking, anything to simplify & speed up the R&R process, so quick disconnects are also a good idea.  Cores are repairable, either if you are competent with a torch & can braze or by taking to a radiator shop.  The solder joint is what tends to fail.  Of course you can simply start chasing the failing solder joint from one end to the other, but it gives one good practice...

[ahopkins22LSV]

32 minutes ago, tvano said:

you can avoid expensive shut-off valves by placing brass garden hose barbs in the right location(s).

i've purchased 2 male/female sets and placed under the dog house where the hoses start to the front of the boat.

if i've got a core leak i can disconnect both fittings in the engine room and connect male to female to drop the core out of the flow.

no valves required.

Do you have pictures of this setup?

[oldjeep]

34 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Do you have pictures of this setup?

It would be the same way that the exhaust manifold drains are set up on your boat.

[tvano]

1 hour ago, Woodski said:

My use for shut off valves is to stop water supply to the core when not needed, due to corrosive nature of raw water on the core(s).  It is not if, simply when the core will start leaking, anything to simplify & speed up the R&R process, so quick disconnects are also a good idea.  Cores are repairable, either if you are competent with a torch & can braze or by taking to a radiator shop.  The solder joint is what tends to fail.  Of course you can simply start chasing the failing solder joint from one end to the other, but it gives one good practice...

if you add quick disconnects you could pull the same trick as w the garden hose barbs and not take much/any more time than w that valve.

[Woodski]

2 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Do you have pictures of this setup?

@ahopkinsTXi:  think splicing the line to the core just a bit after the exit at the top of the intake manifold as it gets down to the floor and splicing the return line near there and presto, you can connect the bypass.  This setup would continue to have flow & you could simply get some cheap hose caps to simply block off flow.  BTW - you can get garden hose quick disconnects although I am not totally sure on how great they seal, in the bilge it may not be that big a deal.

I simply insert a plastic 5/8" barb (auto parts store has them in addition to hardware options) when I pull the heater unit & with a shut off valve in line, I can stop the flow to eliminate any recirculation.

@tvano:  the shut off valve is a flip of the wrist, no fuss there but true, just a bit extra using the garden hose connectors.

 

[tvano]

2 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Do you have pictures of this setup?

@ahopkinsTXi, doubt pix willbe helpful as i did not keep the connectors next to each other.

thinking through my set-up i may have lied, above.  

my hoses have a threaded hose connection at the engine intake manifold and a threaded m/f set of barbs on the other hose near the front of the engine room.  

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B59E9tm-Pit7QnJYT2ZpRGxPVFU shows the return hose w double clamped hose barbs near the bottom right of the pix.

this pix https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B59E9tm-Pit7TGlEYVhmSHgzck0 shows the (disconnected) top hose barbed garden hose connection above the thermostat housing.

i keep a set of caps/plugs in my tool kit in case the core springs a leak.  

my point, above, is that a valve isn't required and the hose fittings aid in adding anti-freeze for winterizing.

[ahopkins22LSV]

I think I get it now! Thanks

[cpuwhiz22]

Hello again.

I wanted to update the crew to let you all know that I got a new HeaterCraft core installed and tested out with my valve setup yesterday and it appears to be working.  The heat doesn't really do anything at idle, which I hear is normal (though I've heard of people tapping other water lines to address this and I would be interested in that solution also).  I am not too worried about this since my primary goal was to stop the leaking, which I have done.  I only bothered with the heater core since I was already there and didn't want to rip everything out a second time to one day replace the core.

It wasn't the cheapest setup however.  I am hoping to be out this weekend and I wasn't able to guarantee that I could get the part in time ordering it online, so I ended up getting it from the local Bu dealer for $135.  I looked at the automotive core option, but I gave up since most things I read were people having success with a two vent heater, where I have the three vent 300H.  Further, the local auto shops are not terribly helpful since they simply search the computer, and do it based on vehicle year, model, etc.

Anyhow, on top of that it cost another $50 or so to rig up the valves.  What I ended up doing was getting (2) 3/4" Brass PEX Tees, (3) 3/4" brass ball valves, hose, and hose clamps.  I used the PEX fittings because I had a hard time finding 5/8" shut off valves and 5/8" barbed Tees, but my research showed other people using PEX fittings for heater systems in cars, and when I looked up the ID of 3/4" PEX I found that the ID of 3/4" PEX is 0.681" and 5/8" is 0.625".  So the PEX is slightly bigger, but wasn't an issue with the 5/8" rubber hose and clamps. 

What I did was install the two Tees on the in/out lines of the core, and in the middle of them I put a ball valve.  I put ball valves above the Tees on the in/out lines so I can now bypass the heater if I choose to, or if it starts leaking one day.  I did a lot of test fitting to ensure hoses were not kinked, the valve levers wouldn't interfere with anything, and most importantly, that it all fit behind the kick panel.

The test drive seems to indicate everything is working as expected, so the only thing left for me to do is reinstall the panels, mount the vents to the panel, and re-install the subwoofer.

When I get a chance to re-install the panels I will snap a few pics and share.  Hope this helps someone!

[bcoppess23]

I recently had issues with my "quick disconnect" system on my heater lines and i will say, having shut-off valves would have been nice.  160 degree water coming out of the lines near the engine is not comfortable to touch.

My setup, I have the Male/Female garden hose connectors and able to disconnect the heater out of the loop.  Having quick disconnects or shut-off valves would have been nice at the time.

[Woodski]

@tvano:  Question - from the first pic, are you using the Heatercraft Y or is that a custom junction?

[tvano]

26 minutes ago, Woodski said:

@tvano:  Question - from the first pic, are you using the Heatercraft Y or is that a custom junction?

that's oem heatercraft.

maybe looks funky because all hose clamps near or below the waterline are doubled?

maybe just a bad camera angle in the pix?