Bought my first boat - '94 Echelon LX

[MikeDe]

18 hours ago, nosnarb said:

Thanks!  Had her out at Lake Murray this last weekend and she ran great.  Had a couple of minor issues, first time out the buzzer went off and oil pressure had dropped to around 20 psi.  Shut the motor off an immediately went looking for an oil leak.  We weren't burning any and there was no oil in the bilge so I restarted the motor.  Pressure came back up and stayed up the rest of the weekend.  At idle it drops to around 10-12 psi and is around 40-50 psi under load.  The second issue we had after that is that the buzzer would go off randomly.  Gauges all read fine, water temp was under 200 degrees, oil pressure was good, oil level and transmission fluid levels were all good so I'm not sure what was causing that.  It resolved itself and didn't go off again.  When I bought the boat the buzzer was disconnected so I wonder if its faulty.

 

I ordered the part to repair the throttle cable and a few other odds and ends.  Next major jobs are replacing the carpet with the Chinese seadek like material, installing a subwoofer under the helm and a couple of tower speakers.  I still need to replace the motor cover supports and brackets, figure out my stiff steering to the left, and rewire the navigation light and stern/swim deck lights, touch up some fiberglass/gel coat in some places and wetsand/polish the hull. 

My '14 4runner tow vehicle squats quite a bit with the boat and trailer attached so I ordered a pair of the Airlift 60809 1000 series rear air bags to help with that.  I suspect that my lift kit causes the nose to ride a bit high anyway and the trailer just exaggerates it.  We will see how much of an impact the bags make.

I was planning on hitting Murray last weekend but I had to settle for T-bird due to some scheduling issues.

It's awesome seeing you bring this one back to life!

[nosnarb]

3 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

The buzzer will go off for 3 things that I know of:

1. Oil pressure less than 5psi
2. Temperature (I don't know the upper limit)
3. Key on but engine not running

I would start with replacing the oil pressure switch.  It is located just above your fuel filter, and here is a pic.  It will need to thread into a NPT fitting, which is shown below.  The plug with red paint next to it was in my engine after the rebuild to seal up that hole until I installed the pressure switch.

Temperature - there should be two wires going to your thermostat housing, one supplies temp to the guage the other supplies temp to the alarm.  Maybe try cleaning those up so they are making good contact?

You really do want to have that alarm working, it can prevent you thousands in rebuilding an engine due to a simple issue.

1.  Oil pressure was around 10-12psi at idle....I don't think it got down to 5psi even when the buzzer was going off randomly.

2.  Im curious as to what people typically see here.  Thermostat is rated at 160 deg. if I remember correctly.  Previously the temperature gauge was not functioning so I replaced the sender and it was reading in the low 200 deg range.

3.  Mine does not come on when they key is turned on

When I installed the temp sender I used some teflon tape on the threads.  Since the sender grounds to the block through that threaded connection I'm wondering if that is creating some issues.  Ill take a look at the oil pressure switch and the temperature switch.

[Woodski]

@nosnarb:  1.  For a small block GM with several hours on it, 10-12 psi at idle may not be an issue, I would bump up the viscosity and your 200 degree water temp indicator may be contributing to it.  2.  Gauge should read same as t-stat, you can do a pretty simple test, get an infrared temp gauge (Harbor Freight / Home Depot, etc. ~$15) and check temp near t-stat and other locations such as oil pan.  My guess, you have some blockage in the system, probably at the tranny cooler inlet reducing water flow.  3.  Wait several seconds, the buzzer on my boat has a delay.

[nosnarb]

O&M manual for the 5.7L Comp Ski and 350 Mag Tournament Ski shows oil pressure to be min. 4psi at idle and 30-60 psi at 2000 RPM.  Just replaced the tranny cooler so hopefully there's not a blockage there.

[nosnarb]

I got tired of the rear squat that I was getting on my '14 4runner when towing the boat so I installed a set of Airlift 1000 air bags on the rear.  I followed this thread:  http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/213391-idiot-thread.html#post2481346 to guide me.  Install was pretty simple with the worst part being cutting the old bumpstops with a hand saw.  That got old fast.  So far with 10psi in the bags I don't notice much of a difference.  Planning on taking the boat out this next weekend so it will be interesting to see how much of a difference the bags make.  Ill post a shot of the 4runner with the bags deflated and with around 30psi (max is 35 psi).

[151]

I had an '03 Echelon closed bow.  That boat can make an amazing wake!  Just be careful because the rails will be about level with the water.

 

[nosnarb]

Ive really enjoyed the Echelon so far.  I have slightly dipped the nose a couple of times, theres certainly not a lot of freeboard on that boat!

[Michigan boarder]

I did the air springs too in our Jeep Wrangler 4 door, made a big difference and rides perfectly.  I go full 25 to 30lbs when towing.

Don't worry too much about dipping the bow, yes it's easy with the Echelon but you can also do it with a 23' V-drive almost as easily.  I was driving a 23LSV and intentionally dipped the bow into a roller to soak my buddy in the front and was a little surprised at how low it went and the volume of water that came in.

[footndale]

Probably switch the teflon tape for Permatex sealant. 

[nosnarb]

7 minutes ago, footndale said:

Probably switch the teflon tape for Permatex sealant. 

yeah I'm going to try this before our next outing.  Thanks!

[nosnarb]

running the boat (at idle) on the fake lake while messing with the throttle linkage on the carb I noticed that i get a little bit of oil mist (and I mean very little, it took awhile before I noticed it) coming out of the starboard side breather hose up by the flame arrestor on the carb.  It looks like my motor doesn't have a PCV valve rather it has a couple of plastic 90deg elbows coming off of the valve covers and running up towards the carb.  In looking at mercruiserparts.com and perfprotech.com I do not see part numbers for a PCV valve for this engine.  Should I add a PCV valve to one or both valve covers?  Should I be worried about the fine mist that I am getting?  Is it blow by and a sign of the end of this motor?

[MadMan]

21 minutes ago, nosnarb said:

running the boat (at idle) on the fake lake while messing with the throttle linkage on the carb I noticed that i get a little bit of oil mist (and I mean very little, it took awhile before I noticed it) coming out of the starboard side breather hose up by the flame arrestor on the carb.  It looks like my motor doesn't have a PCV valve rather it has a couple of plastic 90deg elbows coming off of the valve covers and running up towards the carb.  In looking at mercruiserparts.com and perfprotech.com I do not see part numbers for a PCV valve for this engine.  Should I add a PCV valve to one or both valve covers?  Should I be worried about the fine mist that I am getting?  Is it blow by and a sign of the end of this motor?

I wouldn't worry about it, that slight mist is normal.  The PCV is just an emission control device added to auto engines starting in the '60s.  If you do decide to add one, just add one.  The engine has to have an open breather somewhere.

[MikeDe]

On 7/23/2017 at 10:43 AM, nosnarb said:

I got tired of the rear squat that I was getting on my '14 4runner when towing the boat so I installed a set of Airlift 1000 air bags on the rear.  I followed this thread:  http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/213391-idiot-thread.html#post2481346 to guide me.  Install was pretty simple with the worst part being cutting the old bumpstops with a hand saw.  That got old fast.  So far with 10psi in the bags I don't notice much of a difference.  Planning on taking the boat out this next weekend so it will be interesting to see how much of a difference the bags make.  Ill post a shot of the 4runner with the bags deflated and with around 30psi (max is 35 psi).

What lake are you heading to next?

[nosnarb]

29 minutes ago, MikeDe said:

What lake are you heading to next?

Headed to Keystone next I think.  Not sure if Saturday or Sunday as of yet.

[Woodski]

@nosnarb:  The marine breather system of that era tends not to use a PCV valve to restrict any air from going back in to the engine, no real need to add one.  To your question on engine condition, the best test to identify the blow by issue would be a leak down test.  Percentage leak and where it is coming from will tell you which parts are worn enough to allow that level of positive crankcase pressure to exist.  Assuming it is a slight mist, as noted, probably not a huge deal, the way a marine breather system is set up is to suck those fumes back in to the engine to be burnt or discharged through the exhaust so they don't build up in the bilge.  The blow by is a sign of age or wear but not impending doom of the engine.

[nosnarb]

So the airlift bags make a huge difference.  

heres the 4runner and boat with the bags deflated.  Ive got a lift/leveling kit on the truck which makes it ride just a little nose high so that exaggerates things a bit.

and heres the 4runner with 25psi in the bags.  sorry for the panno shot.  Truck rode so much better and I averaged 14mpg instead of 12mpg without the bags.

Took the towmato up to lake keystone near Tulsa on saturday.  Water was pretty rough early but seemed to calm down as the day went on.  Boat ran great, no alarms, oil pressure was good, temps stayed down, no errant buzzer so I'm optimistic that taking the teflon tape off of the sender resolved that issue.  Did see some idiots hanging off the back of a pontoon getting drug through the water inside of a no wake area.  Wish I had snapped a pic of that, they were just asking to lose a limb or two.  I need to remember to take some pics while we are out and about on the boat.  I get too busy having fun

So whats next?  still have some odds and ends to get resolved, thats just going to be on going.  I purchased some samples of the chinese seadek material that @Hyperryd used on his flooring replacement thread.  Think i'm going to replace the carpet with that product in the dark gray faux teak.  I think I need to coat the fiberglass floors with like an epoxy or some other coating.  The coating will serve as a finish flooring temporarily until the faux teak comes in.  Hyperryd used a rustoleum enamel to hide the seams but I don't think he coated the entire floor.  My fears with the enamel are that it would be really slick in the short term and I would worry about adhesion between the fiberglass and the enamel and between the enamel and the 3m adhesive on the faux teak.  I looked at tuffcoat epoxy from overtons and that would give some slip resistance but then I worry about putting the faux teak down over the epoxy an will it give it enough bite to stay put.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by nosnarb

[nosnarb]

had my fill with the old carpet.  its gross and starting to disintegrate in some places so I went ahead and started tearing it out.  I will wipe it down with some mineral spirits to get any excess glue off.  Looks like a previous owner used construction adhesive to tack down the carpet in a few places so that will be a PITA to get off.  Since the carpet is just falling apart as I gently pull on it I am not going to be able to use it as a template.  Instead I will lay down some visqueen and trace the lines.  Ill transfer that to some 1/8" masonite that I will shape to fit and use that as a template for the router to cut the fauxteak material.  I've only used a router a handful of times so its going to be interesting.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by nosnarb

[MikeDe]

1 minute ago, nosnarb said:

had my fill with the old carpet.  its gross and starting to disintegrate in some places so I went ahead and started tearing it out.  I will wipe it down with some mineral spirits to get any excess glue off.  Looks like a previous owner used construction adhesive to tack down the carpet in a few places so that will be a PITA to get off.  Since the carpet is just falling apart as I gently pull on it I am not going to be able to use it as a template.  Instead I will lay down some visqueen and trace the lines.  Ill transfer that to some 1/8" masonite that I will shape to fit and use that as a template for the router to cut the fauxteak material.  I've only used a router a handful of times so its going to be interesting.

I would like to check this faux teak out once you get it installed. The carpet in my 06 isn't bad, but I'd much prefer having a different type of flooring.

[90oldskool]

13 minutes ago, nosnarb said:

had my fill with the old carpet.  its gross and starting to disintegrate in some places so I went ahead and started tearing it out.  I will wipe it down with some mineral spirits to get any excess glue off.  Looks like a previous owner used construction adhesive to tack down the carpet in a few places so that will be a PITA to get off.  Since the carpet is just falling apart as I gently pull on it I am not going to be able to use it as a template.  Instead I will lay down some visqueen and trace the lines.  Ill transfer that to some 1/8" masonite that I will shape to fit and use that as a template for the router to cut the fauxteak material.  I've only used a router a handful of times so its going to be interesting.

search "faux teak" on here , there are a few topics on it . Will have with your install. 

[Woodski]

@nosnarb:  Not necessarily applicable to your material change, I redid the carpet on my Echy.  I did not do the final cut until I laid the carpet on the floor then simply cut along the crease or edge with sharp (very important and buy lots of blades) cutting knife.  That worked great, but then carpet is pretty pliable and does lay right in to a deep corner.  I also hit the floor with a disc sander to get some stubborn stuff, you noted started, I noticed that when I started it seemed pretty easy to pull up the carpet which gave me that false sense of removal.  When I got farther forward (probably where less water immersed to the glue) it got tougher, as in quite a bit tougher which really meant longer.  There are several threads on this site that document carpet redo's both for carpeting and SeaDek type redo'.  In the end you will be very satisfied, it really makes a huge difference.  I would also get some additional material as the foam makes great step pads on the gunnel, etc.  Much nicer than the old plastic style pads used back in the day.

[nosnarb]

@woodski: I actually started at the bow of the boat and was working my way towards the stern.  The bow pieces came up relatively easily, and in one piece, but once I got to the ski pole it started tearing apart with the lightest of tug.  I am currently to the stern side of the engine cover on the starboard side and working around the spotter seat on the port side.

Any idea what grit you used on the disc sander?  I'm not too concerned about roughing up the fiberglass...if anything that will just aid in the adhesion of whatever epoxy/bed liner I put down.

I'm going to go ahead and have the trim/frame powder coated for the ski locker and the rear compartment while I have all of this torn apart.  Do I need to take the gas tank loose to be able to remove the rear compartment trim?

 

 

[nosnarb]

ick

Edited April 21, 2018 by nosnarb

[Michigan boarder]

This is pretty inspiring, would be a really nice upgrade for my Echy too.

What is your plan for up the gunnels?  Leave the carpeting?

[nosnarb]

@Michigan boarder:  I think I will run the same flooring material up the gunnels too.  Im currently looking at the chinese faux teak seadek stuff and I saw a post on here about using woven vinyl flooring.  That would come in a roll and be installed in a manner similar to carpet.  From a material cost standpoint (not including shipping) the Chinese seadek product is about $1.55psf whereas the woven vinyl would be about $0.79psf.  

 

I guess my next big question is what to put down under whatever I do flooring wise?  Should I do an epoxy like tuff coat?  Bedliner? Monstaliner? or just put the flooring down on top of the fiberglass and call it a day?

Edited August 3, 2017 by nosnarb
train of thought crashed into platform and exploded

[Woodski]

@nosnarb:  IIRC around  100 grit, simply to get all the excess glue / debris off the floor, you might need to go finer as you are going to the foam material.  Doing a carpet floor, I did the sides so it would match, kind of a bummer knowing you are pulling off perfectly good carpet.  What is the plan for the engine box, that may be your indicator on what material for the sides.  I pulled the tank as there is carpet under it, but I actually pulled it for more reasons that just the carpet redo.  For the trim, I don't think so as it rivets to the deck.  You might want to just to clean up the transom area, lots of debris / vapors collect back there.

On a different topic - sweet steering wheel.  If you look at some old Malibu brochures, you will see when Malibu did a wooden steering wheel they also did a simulated wooden dash & throttle knob which looks very nice.  The dash panel is actually very easy to make (real wood would be a bit tougher, but a high quality vinyl would be simple) along with a wooden shift knob would have a very classic look.  Of course I just opened a can of worms if you consider that as to what color you do the floor!  Faux teak & done to sides with wood dash / wheel / knob would really pop IMO.  You will find people on this forum are more than happy to help you spend your hard earned cash.