17 suburban pull a 17 m235?

[oldjeep]

And fwiw I used to tow one of my jeeps on a surge braked car trailer behind a 4.0l 99 ranger.  I was well within the 6k tow rating when that trailer tried to pass me on an icy down hill.  If the jeep had not lurched back and forth so much and stretched the straps enough to drop a wheel through the open center of the trailer that hit the road and straightened the trailer out I'm not sure I would have gotten to tell the story.  That was the last down sized tow vehicle and the last surge braked winter trailer.

[hethj7]

9 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

regardless of insurance and the law, who wants the possibility of a problem caused by an undersized tow vehicle.  Id be more worried about the ability to get boat out of water, roasting trans or busting rear end than the possibility of crashing into a bus load of nuns and if insurance would cover it.

I am the opposite.  Pulling the boat up a ramp isn't too hard.  The emergency stopping is the situation that worries me the most, especially at freeway speeds, with my family in the vehicle.  Although.... some of the steepest ramps I have been on with my buddy's 247 did make me nervous. 

[oldjeep]

Just now, hethj7 said:

I am the opposite.  Pulling the boat up a ramp isn't too hard.  The emergency stopping is the situation that worries me the most, especially at freeway speeds, with my family in the vehicle.  Although.... some of the steepest ramps I have been on with my buddy's 247 did make me nervous. 

I've just never had a trailer that didn't want to lock up the brakes in a quick stop.  In general if they are working and it isn't icy or wet trailer brakes seem to be more than enough.

Edited May 25, 2017 by oldjeep

[hethj7]

Guess I have been fortunate to never truly had to slam on the brakes while towing.  I have had a few white knuckle stops with no issues but never truly a holy sh$t moment.  I do count on the trailer brakes doing their job and that the load isn't such that it starts yanking me around.  Thise are my fears but certainly the Malibu trailer and brakes seem to be dialed in. 

[MadMan]

Whenever I get a new tow vehicle or trailer I do a "panic stop" in a non-panic situation, just to see if the rig behaves ok.  A real panic situation is not the best time to find out how it's going to stop.

[nyryan2001]

I'm about to do a fairly nasty tow for another move.

~8500lb tow, VA to TN through some fairly extreme extended WV mountain passes.  Warning signs, pull offs etc.  I'll be pulling slow.

i already did my empty truck weigh, certified sales measure my empty Tundra at 6020lbs.  I'll follow up with my full weigh.  Truck full and boat in tow.  I'm estimating 15,000lbs combined.

 

[oldjeep]

35 minutes ago, nyryan2001 said:

I'm about to do a fairly nasty tow for another move.

~8500lb tow, VA to TN through some fairly extreme extended WV mountain passes.  Warning signs, pull offs etc.  I'll be pulling slow.

i already did my empty truck weigh, certified sales measure my empty Tundra at 6020lbs.  I'll follow up with my full weigh.  Truck full and boat in tow.  I'm estimating 15,000lbs combined.

 

3 MPG?

[nyryan2001]

It'll be 6-7 average if I keep it 65-70 at ~2000-2500rpms. 70-75mpg seems to be the wall at this weight with the Tundra... MPGs drop fast in 4:10gears. Lots of 3000+ RPM downshifts at 70+... and drinks fuel on an already small 24gal? Tank.  Absolutely cannot pass a gas station with 1/4 or less fuel, last 1/4 lasts 15mins. Means stoping every ~70-90mins.

but through the moutains... yep 2-4mpgs

[nyryan2001]

Forgot to add, towing that same route on the way here from OK I towed the boat with the largest Penske moving truck with the International diesel.  25mph going up completely floored.... Coming down the backside of the mountain the air brakes got really hot.... massive 300ft plume of white smoke same as the large semis do.  

Yes I plan to engine brake the entire way down.

[Falko]

My parents had a rear caliper on their gas RV explode due to overheating once. Lucky it didn't ignite. But this was while also engine braking. They traded it for a unit with air brakes and exhaust brake after it was repaired. But anyway, just still be vigilant with that much weight, as I'm sure you will be.

[pauley71]

Don't know about those fords (kidding) but my 1/2 ton Sierra (2015 w/ 5.3) says up to 7k a WDH is optional, over 7k recommended.  I don't think I would tow more than my 23 LSV with it.  

For reference, the manual says 2500/3500 is 18k w/ WDH as optional.  

Not that I would put the stress of a WDH on the swing arm tongue anyway.  

[ilovetrains]

21 hours ago, RyanB said:

Going further off topic, but I will push back some here.  It sounds like you are well versed in the subject, so I do appreciate your insight.

I worked for a non-standard auto insurance company many years ago.  And a good buddy of mine is an Independent Agent.  From my memory, and what he tells me, it is incredibly difficult to deny coverage unless there is a stated policy exclusion.

The one you mention is probably in all policies, and I am sure that in extreme circumstances could be used to fight coverage, but I think with as broad as it is, insurance companies could use that in many circumstances - which makes it much more difficult to defend in court.

For example, wouldn't you argue that an accident caused by a drunk driver could be willful or wanton unsafe acts?  Or if you were speeding say 20 + MPH over the posted speed limit (which in Colorado is reckless driving, by definition a willful unsafe act).  I am unaware of either of those being reason to deny coverage.

Perhaps my statement of insurance not denying coverage due to being over weight was too absolute.  I think it would be easier to argue coverage denial if someone in a Smart Car was towing a M235.  But using the assumption that someone was over a manufactures tow rating as the sole reason for denial of coverage is going to be a tough sell in court.

Regardless, your story is something I wouldn't wish upon anyone.  That would be rough.

There might be some confusion, as I look at my post I was not very clear.

There essentially two types of claims against your insurance, an injured party claiming against your insurance, in which case generally the carrier (again this varies widely from state to state) is responsible for both simple and gross negligence, and one you make against your own insurance.  There the carrier typically always has an exclusion for gross negligence.  Again, YMMV from state to state.

[85 Barefoot]

9 minutes ago, ilovetrains said:

There might be some confusion, as I look at my post I was not very clear.

There essentially two types of claims against your insurance, an injured party claiming against your insurance, in which case generally the carrier (again this varies widely from state to state) is responsible for both simple and gross negligence, and one you make against your own insurance.  There the carrier typically always has an exclusion for gross negligence.  Again, YMMV from state to state.

are you saying the Range Rover claim was a first party  Um claim?  who caused the accident?

[oldjeep]

12 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

are you saying the Range Rover claim was a first party  Um claim?  who caused the accident?

In a single vehicle accident the answer seems obvious

[85 Barefoot]

10 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

In a single vehicle accident the answer seems obvious

Well, without rereading what ilovetrains wrote again, I recall he said coverage was denied, or something to that effect.  Coverage may mean on the vehicle, it also may or may not apply to the liability claims of the passengers (he was not specific, but he could have meant all claims).  It would be a particularly harsh and strict construction of a policy defense to exclude bodily injury liability and/or uninsured motorist' coverage for passengers of said vehicle, but he's the one with the example.

And no, even in 1 car accidents, they can be caused by other vehicles (ie a "phantom vehicle").

Edited May 25, 2017 by 85 Barefoot

[Bozboat]

21 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

I think it depends.  Do you have neck or face tattoos?

 

85 Barefoot already answered the question, two types of claims, my claim on my policy and someone who has a claim against me where the insurance company is supposed to stand up for me and pay for my mistakes.

Around here if the insurance is paid they will at least provide a defense to the third party claim  (the bigger the policy the more documents the adjustor needs to justify the payment).  

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bozboat

[maliboobie]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:36 PM, MadMan said:

Whenever I get a new tow vehicle or trailer I do a "panic stop" in a non-panic situation, just to see if the rig behaves ok.  A real panic situation is not the best time to find out how it's going to stop.

Agreed... which is why i got a burban from the dealer and did a "test"... it was really an easy tow. Ive hauled with a f250 and ive hauled 10k on an old 1/2 ton so ive had the range of what decent weight feels like, and this did not feel like an 8k# tow

Edited May 28, 2017 by maliboobie

[maliboobie]

[hethj7]

Forget the towing discussion - that M is sexy!

 

 

[leje0306]

On 5/25/2017 at 8:11 AM, nyryan2001 said:

It'll be 6-7 average if I keep it 65-70 at ~2000-2500rpms. 70-75mpg seems to be the wall at this weight with the Tundra... MPGs drop fast in 4:10gears. Lots of 3000+ RPM downshifts at 70+... and drinks fuel on an already small 24gal? Tank.  Absolutely cannot pass a gas station with 1/4 or less fuel, last 1/4 lasts 15mins. Means stoping every ~70-90mins.

but through the moutains... yep 2-4mpgs

It says right in your manual you're supposed to limit to 4th gear. That should put you near 3k RPM at those speeds

[Cole2001]

20 hours ago, maliboobie said:

My initial thought to this picture was the your lake police sure have a nice boat. The all black suburban with black rims looks like a cop car. 

Love it!

[carguy79ta]

great looking boat (and ride) post back with some awesome wave pics!

[Falko]

I don't know if it is the angle, or the closeness of the boat, but the boat looks huge compared to that sub.

[RyanB]

7 minutes ago, Falko said:

I don't know if it is the angle, or the closeness of the boat, but the boat looks huge compared to that sub.

I don't think it is either of those.  It is just that those boats are HUGE.

Eager to hear how it pulls.  It certainly is a nice looking combo.

[nyryan2001]

~750 miles through the mountains from D.C. to north of Nashville.

averaged 6.8mpg on Shell gas... I ran hard averaging 70-75mph.

99% (~75-100)of the hills were ran at 3100rpms at 70mph.  The one extreme hill was 50-60mph at 4200rpms.

Empty truck is 6020lbs.

total weight today was 15,340lbs.  

The rear 3 axels carried 7760lbs.

the truck tires carried 7580.

Out of the 1560lbs in the truck, ~500 was gear and 200lbs was boat lead.  So approx ~800lbs of tongue weight.

So boat and trailer as seen weigh ~8560lbs with 2/3rds ~40gals of fuel.  No cooler, ice, lead or anything else. 5 Group 29 batteries.  (3 extra at ~60lbs ea).

108k miles on the Tundra and it ran great.  Let the RPMs humm and enjoy the power.  The triple axel tracks and handles very nice.  A- overall for the Tundra at this weight, it needs better brakes at this weight.  I've already upgraded to the R1 slotted... no real improvement towing.

 

https://flic.kr/p/VgvU3G