Prop shaft alignment / prop install

[85 Barefoot]

Im not surprised its not turnable but to gauge the difficulty turning with prop on, it can be as stiff as a two hand job.  I've never ever heard of a key not fitting.  I almost wonder if that's from a shaft bend but I'd be surprised if you had no vibration.  That said, your strut is pretty dang jacked so maybe bothe were vibrating it back into equilibrium haha

[Woodski]

@MattyICE15:  Try lubricating the rudder bushings with water or even soapy water to get the shaft to spin freely.

[MattyICE15]

Ordering my feeler gauges tonight and taking home a dial indicator from work to help check the shaft straightness either this weekend or next. 

Looks like I should at a minimum order a new strut from most opinions...

 

 

[Shastasurf]

Looks like a project. Gel Coat is all cracked too.  I wouldn't want to cause any more unwanted stress from vibration. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Shastasurf

[85 Barefoot]

1 hour ago, MattyICE15 said:

Ordering my feeler gauges tonight and taking home a dial indicator from work to help check the shaft straightness either this weekend or next. 

Looks like I should at a minimum order a new strut from most opinions...

 

 

Feeler gauges are not going to tell you if your shaft is bent.  They're for alignment.  Need to remove shaft to do that and since you'll have coupler loose for feeler gauges might as well remove shaft and check it.  

[MattyICE15]

Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

Feeler gauges are not going to tell you if your shaft is bent.  They're for alignment.  Need to remove shaft to do that and since you'll have coupler loose for feeler gauges might as well remove shaft and check it.  

I knew the feeler gauges weren't going to tell me if I had a bent shaft but I could be out of alignment because of a bent shaft and strut.

So I am under the impression that I need to check my alignment with the feeler gauges as well as the shaft "straightness" with the dial indicator.

If I lube the bearings with some water and throw the prop on, I should have enough leverage to spin the shaft and get an accurate reading. Let me know if you feel differently about this.

[85 Barefoot]

From my perspective, alignment is irrelevant at this point until you know you are installing (or are using) straight components.  Right now, you know you have a bent strut and may have a bent shaft.  Last step will be to do alignment.

[MattyICE15]

5 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

From my perspective, alignment is irrelevant at this point until you know you are installing (or are using) straight components.  Right now, you know you have a bent strut and may have a bent shaft.  Last step will be to do alignment.

Fair enough, saves me some time I suppose. I appreciate the feedback.

 

Is there anyway with the current components used as, that it wouldn't cause any issues for me?

i.e. if the shaft is close enough to tolerance, and the alignment isn't terribly off, and the boat has limited (if any) vibrations, would the worst would be excessive wear on the strut bearings but reasonable enough not to mess with it?

On 5/7/2017 at 6:02 PM, Steve B. said:

There's too much resistance to turn a prop by hand. I highly recommend not putting the drive into gear while running.

If there was no vibration or issue before, I dont think you have one now. Get that new prop on there and give her a try.

Steve B.

 

[oldjeep]

3 minutes ago, MattyICE15 said:

Fair enough, saves me some time I suppose. I appreciate the feedback.

 

Is there anyway with the current components used as, that it wouldn't cause any issues for me?

i.e. if the shaft is close enough to tolerance, and the alignment isn't terribly off, and the boat has limited (if any) vibrations, would the worst would be excessive wear on the strut bearings but reasonable enough not to mess with it?

 

worst would be snapping the shaft off and dropping it and your prop in the lake.

[malibuparadise]

I had a bent strut and had it straightened at a machine shop. Still looking good.  Albeit I was in Japan and needed repair soonest.

[malibuparadise]

While one can never measure enough re shaft/strut alignment, etc.,  you will ultimately need to pull the shaft IMO (and roll it on a flat table). It it's straight, I'd be amazed and you are a lucky son of a gun. You also need the exact length of the shaft to get a new one which you'll most likely need. Don't end up going down the wrong path and ending up redoing. Do it "right" from the start. You'll save a lot of time, for sure, and maybe bucks too.

[MattyICE15]

Quick Update and additional insight needed here:

Update 1 - I took the dive and ended up ordering a new strut and a new prop shaft. After taking some readings with a dial indicator it appears I was off .010 on the shaft which is quite a bit out of standard tolerance and my strut was visibly bent .

Update 2 - The removal of the strut and shaft was a pain.  In hindsight, I probably should have removed the strut first because I think it left a bind in the system (from being bent) making the shaft removal much harder than it should have been. Specifically, once the coupler was unbolted, there was no free range of movement through the assembly.  The coupler didn't move at all after the bolts were taken out and was very difficult to get it to slide away from the trans flange.  Finally got it all out with some elbow grease and insight from this site.

Additional questions:

Question 1 - The new shaft came with the coupler already bolted on. Since I used longer bolts and the trans flange to "press" the old shaft out for removal, how should I go about getting the coupler off the shaft without any leverage? Or is there anyway you guys think I could install it on the boat with it already on? (my guess would be no but I figured I better ask).

Question 2 - What is the best way to ensure my strut is installed in alignment?  I know you can use washers as shims if you are out of alignment but I'm not entirely sure how to verify I am dead straight from the get go?

Question 3 - My new parts didn't come with any mounting hardware. I saved the old bolts/nuts just in case but thought it was odd that I didn't get new hardware with the new stuff. Am I wrong for thinking it should have been included?

[Woodski]

@MattyICE15:  1.  A vice and 3 jaw puller should handle that project.  Keep the nut on the shaft while using the puller.  2. I would use shaft as a course alignment tool, attach the strut finger tight, install the shaft, snug up the strut then check alignment via the coupler alignment procedure.  I am sure there are some video's online as installation guide & a local dealer may be willing to offer advice.  3.  I would guess it all depends on where purchased as to contents of kit.

Good luck.

[MattyICE15]

20 hours ago, Woodski said:

@MattyICE15:  1.  A vice and 3 jaw puller should handle that project.  Keep the nut on the shaft while using the puller.  2. I would use shaft as a course alignment tool, attach the strut finger tight, install the shaft, snug up the strut then check alignment via the coupler alignment procedure.  I am sure there are some video's online as installation guide & a local dealer may be willing to offer advice.  3.  I would guess it all depends on where purchased as to contents of kit.

Good luck.

I think I will only be able to eyeball the shaft and strut alignment to start.  My engine was adjusted before we bought it to compensate for the bent components I believe. It will have to be centered which I suppose could be step # 1 to get a better ballpark for the shaft and strut? (Then adjust again for alignment once all is installed)

It looks like the vertical mounts are fairly straightforward on all four posts (2 nuts that adjust to work the engine vertically). The horizontal mounts seems like they may bit a bit trickier.  I previously read that there is a pin I have to pull out to get the engine to slide? I only saw two bolts at each post at a first glance when I looked last weekend? Maybe I'm premature here but some closure would be nice.

Edited June 16, 2017 by MattyICE15

[williemon]

Put the strut on and then put shaft through the strut and log. The shaft should center itself and be happy easly moved and spun as you hold it in your hand as if you were the tranny coupler. If the shaft will center without force in the shaft log, then match the engine alignment to that. The engine side to side adjustment is just loosen the bolrs on each side, them make engine slide from side to side using a pipe or 2x4 wedged in there to make it slide. 

[MattyICE15]

I was able to get the strut bolted on last night.  Put the shaft through the log and tested the play side to side and up and down to gain a central point. Ball-parked that with the strut position to make sure I was close enough for hand grenades. Bolted the strut on finger tight and ran the prop shaft through to make sure I was still centered (I was with a minor adjustment).  Then pushed the bolts out a bit to apoxy them as well as the base of the strut with 3M 4200 and started tightening her down.  Some of the nuts were tough to access in the bilge but I got them all secure.  Didn't put any 4200 on the nuts and washers in the bilge but I layered it on pretty good under the hull so I should be ok.

Next step, prop shaft and engine alignment on Friday ...

[MattyICE15]

New issue... got the engine aligned to where the trans flange and the shaft coupler are within .003 tolerance without using any bolts. The way the coupler sits there is not a lot of play right to left/up and down. The two units are naturally lined up now.

problem exists when I bolt the coupler and the trans together. The bolts don't have enough clearance to spin the flange all the way around. They clunk as it makes contact with the underbelly of the trans. Not sure what I did wrong here as I adjusted the front mounts (closest to the transom) down a few quarter turns, slide the back (transmission side) a little towards the starboard side for alignment purposes, and then lowered the back end with the verticals mounts to better align with the coupler in its natural state.

Hopefully someone can help me out. It seems like the trans flange is fixed so at any position the bolts should have contact issues? Using the previous bolts that were already in the boat for the record.

Edited June 24, 2017 by MattyICE15

[MattyICE15]

So after trying to figure it out for awhile, I took a break to sit down and write the previous post. Typed up and posted.

Took a deep breath trying to release the frustration and went and sat out by the pier over the water to relax and clear my mind.

thats when it hit me... what is different about now and how it was previously. I added a small washer because I thought it was missing!

removed the washer and she spins freely when bolted up.

Tranquility of being on/by water does wonders for the mind. Sorry for the false alarm.