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MC setteled the lawsuit with Malibu over wake convergence technology


23LSVOwner

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On 5/3/2017 at 11:39 AM, TenTwentyOne said:

And just FYI, every method of creating a surf wave involves delayed convergence. That is the exact thing that causes the wave to form. Listing a boat with ballast  causes delayed convergence. Listing it with tabs causes delayed convergence. Dog tracking the boat causes delayed convergence. Redirecting flow causes delayed convergence.

Boy, you must have pulled that quote straight off the Mastercraft Teamtalk page Mr FourFourty! 

https://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=79619&page=2

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On 5/3/2017 at 2:54 PM, ahopkinsTXi said:

So of company A and company B each come up with similar idea and design at the same general time then produce for a year. After a year no patent has been filed so company B does. What stops them from going after company A and any other company that infringes on it?

Neither can apply for a patent after it has been in the marketplace for over 365 days.  Who ever has a press release first could then be prior art for all those that follow up to 1 year, after that its fair game for anyone to use and no one to patent.

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Also note that failure to protect your patent will also result in neglect and will allow anyone and everyone to use your patent.  If they let MC get away with using the same tech, then Nautique would no longer be required to pay due to neglect.

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ahopkins22LSV
4 minutes ago, 05hammerhead said:

Neither can apply for a patent after it has been in the marketplace for over 365 days.  Who ever has a press release first could then be prior art for all those that follow up to 1 year, after that its fair game for anyone to use and no one to patent.

Gotcha, I have zero knowledge of how any of this works so was just curious.

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On 5/3/2017 at 0:13 PM, racer808 said:

So are all the suckgate companies going to be next?  Surprised we haven't heard more cease letters being sent out to these guys.

I think that if I were Malibu, I would not file any of those until they are more popular.  Give them another year to increase their popularity, and then hit them with a bigger lawsuit.  

The company's end game is to make money, not protect delayed convergence.  

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14 minutes ago, TallRedRider said:

I think that if I were Malibu, I would not file any of those until they are more popular.  Give them another year to increase their popularity, and then hit them with a bigger lawsuit.  

The company's end game is to make money, not protect delayed convergence.  

Not sure they will bother. Does anyone know if Nautique goes after aftermarket tower manufacturers? 

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56 minutes ago, 05hammerhead said:

Also note that failure to protect your patent will also result in neglect and will allow anyone and everyone to use your patent.  If they let MC get away with using the same tech, then Nautique would no longer be required to pay due to neglect.

So with this logic... they would be REQUIRED to go after the suck gate companies, correct?

This topic is so far out of my expertise i have no knowledge, bit i am curious.

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On 5/3/2017 at 9:55 AM, DarkSide said:

I think this was very smart on Malibu's part.   If your not going to defend the patent,  why go through the time, trouble and expense of getting the patent. 

I think Supra/Moomba will be next.   Then will they go after all the "suck gate" vendors next?

I don't think they can go for Tige or Centurion as those are very basic trim tab systems.    MC had a elegantly designed tab that did more than create list. 

Suck gates will be a lost cause.. they will just be sold on Amazon, which is all knock off for everything now.. can't go after the guy who sells a handful and changes seller name the next week.. Amazon doesn't enforce jack.. this why most Major brands ban their products from Amazon but they nearly can't stop.. also why so much is fake as well.. so I dont see them being able to stop suck gates personally.. not sure if they could convince someone it's worth paying them vs selling on back channels.. 

On another note saw the suck gates that's on the moomba in a show room.. best one I've seen yet I think it had a Roswell sticker on it? 

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33 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

So with this logic... they would be REQUIRED to go after the suck gate companies, correct?

This topic is so far out of my expertise i have no knowledge, bit i am curious.

i'm inclined to guess they'd not pursue those on the legal grounds that Malibu sells boats, not parts, and they could logically claim that their direct competitors' incorporation of a patented system was causing lost sales.  Contrast that with guys selling  systems for 10 year old boats.  Just a complete guess, but I'd also be inclined to guess that Malibu may be going after their competitors one at a time due to the legal expenses, and that it may not make financial sense to go after the suck gate systems, since many of them are much smaller companies.  Complete speculation, though.

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Not sure that I want to get involved with this discussion.  However, it would not take much for Malibu to have their lawyers send letters to all Suck Gate manufacturers if they believe that their IP is being infringed upon

 

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29 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

A patent lawyer chimed in on that Team Talk thread.  Very good insight actually.  What he is saying makes a lot of sense. 

I'm lazy, link to the thread on TT?

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I don't like how you can patent a result. Patent how you get that result, but how can you patent the end game? Can a pharmaceutical company patent "relief of pain"?

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15 hours ago, DarkSide said:

So with this logic... they would be REQUIRED to go after the suck gate companies, correct?

This topic is so far out of my expertise i have no knowledge, bit i am curious.

Theyd likely be required to at least send a cease and desist letter saying they will do something.

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15 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Suck gates will be a lost cause.. they will just be sold on Amazon, which is all knock off for everything now.. can't go after the guy who sells a handful and changes seller name the next week.. Amazon doesn't enforce jack.. this why most Major brands ban their products from Amazon but they nearly can't stop.. also why so much is fake as well.. so I dont see them being able to stop suck gates personally.. not sure if they could convince someone it's worth paying them vs selling on back channels.. 

On another note saw the suck gates that's on the moomba in a show room.. best one I've seen yet I think it had a Roswell sticker on it? 

Not sure this is true.  They can easily target these people.  As for why major brands dont allow their products on amazon its because they dont want to compete against other people they sell their products to.  There is less margin on products sold on amazon and would likely cause a rift among others who sell the product and cant compete.  We sell home building parts/pieces and if we allowed someone to sell it direct off amazon, do you think Ferguson would still sell our product?

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14 hours ago, bamaboy said:

A patent lawyer chimed in on that Team Talk thread.  Very good insight actually.  What he is saying makes a lot of sense. 

Very well spoken too.  Good read.

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7 minutes ago, 05hammerhead said:

Not sure this is true.  They can easily target these people.  As for why major brands dont allow their products on amazon its because they dont want to compete against other people they sell their products to.  There is less margin on products sold on amazon and would likely cause a rift among others who sell the product and cant compete.  We sell home building parts/pieces and if we allowed someone to sell it direct off amazon, do you think Ferguson would still sell our product?

yes well aware of the amazon beast! cut throat... most sellers have no idea they arent even making any money.. the 15% seller fee typically ends up being around 30-35% at the end of the day  and FBA is extremely bad in that is automatically searches for lower prices and reduces pricing below mfgs MAP pricing to alwasy win.. its terrible from a sellers standpoint but great from a buyers standpoint..

we also sell products to large dealer network and we had to ban products from being sold on amazon because it ticked off the stores for MAP violation and it got uncontrollable, but on the other hand larger stores like Do-it-best have set up literally 100+ accounts to sell products and circumvent their vendors from knowing they are selling on amzon/ebay etc.. problem as i said they can all hide behind a sellers account and quickly switch to someone else etc.. just food for thought on how Amazon has become a "sl*t" fest.. ha

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17 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

yes well aware of the amazon beast! cut throat... most sellers have no idea they arent even making any money.. the 15% seller fee typically ends up being around 30-35% at the end of the day  and FBA is extremely bad in that is automatically searches for lower prices and reduces pricing below mfgs MAP pricing to alwasy win.. its terrible from a sellers standpoint but great from a buyers standpoint..

we also sell products to large dealer network and we had to ban products from being sold on amazon because it ticked off the stores for MAP violation and it got uncontrollable, but on the other hand larger stores like Do-it-best have set up literally 100+ accounts to sell products and circumvent their vendors from knowing they are selling on amzon/ebay etc.. problem as i said they can all hide behind a sellers account and quickly switch to someone else etc.. just food for thought on how Amazon has become a "sl*t" fest.. ha

And like you said above, it'll get so diluted with overseas crap it won't be able to be regulated anyway. Just like the CC tower issue, anyone can to go Alibaba and buy 5 of the same towers that Aerial/Lightning/Krypt/Big Air do, put their own name on them and set up a seller account. Once they're gone the account dies until they decide to do it again. If they get harassed they'll just make a new account. Modern business model.

Edited by jk13
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