M235 first day EPIC FAIL

[ahopkins22LSV]

8 hours ago, potterm said:

Great news from my dealer today.  The prop that I thought looked "perfect" was actually damaged.   They installed my backup prop (which they drove back to my slip to get) and vibration is gone.  Just need to adjust the rudder which was off from the factory. impressed by all the people on this thread that totally called the debris strike.  Code is hopefully not a big deal.  They think it was a knock sensor code.  Strange since I just filled up with 93 octane/ethanol free gas.  I'll keep my fingers crossed (intermittent codes that could not be resolved was the biggest headache of my LSV).  

 

I have renewed hope for my M235.  I just want a reliable boat with an awesome surf wave.   I and everyone in the boat still did not see the mystery debris in a very clear lake but glad that it has to be it.  Never damaged a prop before with 400+ hours on my A22 and 23 LSV on the same lake.   Now I know to just change the prop before assuming the worst. 

 

I still hope Malibu gets the message that their quality control and workmanship needs to improve.  As someone who has purchased 3 Malibu/Axis boats in 3 years, I would hope they would care about my opinion. They make awesome boats but frequent breakdowns and poor workmanship ruin that quickly.  

 

 

Great to hear! Time to get back out on the water and enjoy that beautiful boat!

[Michigan boarder]

7 hours ago, RTS said:

Give me a reliable towboat with 4 gauges plus tach and speedo on the dash, a fuel injected engine with no Cats, and I'm good. 

And a 454?

[ConnollyCrew]

17 hours ago, IXFE said:

This thread is making me nervous to take delivery of my '17 25 LSV (from a new dealer). I hope it's as good as my previous Malibus have been. 

My 17' has been great so far. At 30

hours and other than bad fuel with my first fill up all has been perfect!

Enjoy the new boat!

[The Hulk]

thread lesson.. You can't be an official TMC member until you've been hazed

[spikew919]

I am by no means complaining, we love boating and this is or second malibu, and I'm sure they all have issues. I watched the vids and read up and listened to Malibu's advertising. But quality control is lacking terribly for what they believe their boat is worth. 

I have bought over 30 racing dirt bikes from 5 different manufacturers and out of all those only 1 that I can ever remember having a bolt loose or missing. And keep in mind they turn over thousands or tens of thousands more units. And every single bolt, clamp, pin has a paint marker dot on it where it has been checked. And I know a dirtbike is smaller. But there is a lot of bolts nuts and screws.  

 

Malibu is lucky and the other boat manufacturers that the dealers get the brunt of the problems to repair. 

I wish this boat had no issues like @Fmanor @IXFE but mine does and 99% I will repair myself that's just who I am, and not to Mention my closest dealer is 200 miles away. 

 

I mean thats a pretty prime price that malibu believes this boat is worth, takes 11 days to build, why not take 12 days and use that extra day to check everything out and clean it all up??

Oh well  MBGA ?????? Make boating great again ???

Edited April 12, 2017 by spikew919

[23LSVOwner]

10 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Glad you've got your new boat back and kudos to your dealer.  In the end they were not responsible and yet they put in the extra effort for you.

Now are you going to change the title of the thread?

 

^this^

[TenTwentyOne]

5 hours ago, IXFE said:

and just for fun... and because this thread is severely lacking in pics... 

you ain't living until you find a caulk gun in your bilge! 

(kidding, of course)

 

I am definitely way too picky about my boats...... I would be some pissed if I was doing a factory tour, and saw a caulking gun laying against the finished flake gel on my brand new 100k+ toy.

Im sure it happens with them all, and that gun isn't really hurting much.......but still, I would be extremely annoyed. Kind of like somebody leaning against the side of one of my cars.

I think I need boat OCD counseling 

 

[billjames]

13 hours ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Can't say as I agree with this......... these are Malibu boats, and Malibu chooses the engine marinizer they want to use. They do have choices, and the total quality of ALL components, of the completed package, should definitely fall on them. They aren't selling these boats without an engine, like an outboard boat. They also don't give the customer a choice on different marinizing companies. They only give the one choice, and they sell you the boat as a complete unit. Any issue with the completed unit should definitely fall on them, because they are the ones who choose all the components to sell the completed boat. (We all know indmar is a good choice. Not debating that)

I have always hated the fact that the engine was warranted separately in these boats..... as well as other components, like stereo equipment (for instance). It's good to see that some companies have started to cover the entire boat, factory direct, on ALL components. No more taking the boat to a dealer and getting  "I'm sorry, we will have to talk to indmar, that is a different warranty", or "I'm sorry, that amp is not covered under the factory warranty because it's made by RF, and their warranty is only one year.". 

Excellent feedback,

Apparently Chattwake did not get it yet. I might also add that part of the choice Malibu and any other boat manufacturers make is how to manage the warranty on those third party suppliers. As far as I know, if the windshield break down, Malibu does not ask the customer to call and deal the warranty with the windshield supplier. On the other hand Malibu makes the conscious choice to have the engine and transmission warranty dealt directly by the third party supplier according to Chattwake. Again, this is Malibu choice, I bet this is a price/cost issue for them, whatever, their choice not the customer choice so Malibu has to deal with all the positive (my opinion cost reduction) and negative (brand impact, reputation when failure, etc..) effect of this choice.

 

[billjames]

14 hours ago, Chattwake said:

You do understand that the engine and transmission are not assembled by Malibu.  Accordingly, if there happens to be an engine or transmission issue, how do you blame Malibu's "build quality" when the issue has nothing to do with any work that Malibu performed.  If there is an engine/transmission issue, seems to me that the ire should fall on the responsible party i.e. the manufacturer.  There is a reason why the warranty is through the engine manufacturer and not Malibu.  This is a material difference between the auto industry and the boat industry.  But hey, feel free to ignore the facts.

In regard to the OP, I agree that it sounds like a bent prop.   If that turns out to be the case, I hope he lets us know.

Apparently, you do not get it, but someone else already explained to you why your argument is wrong as Malibu made a conscious choice when choosing their engine and transmission supplier. By the way, when Malibu or any other boat manufacturers or cars shop for supplier,s they come with their criteria and requirements that can include anything you can imaging as long as they are ready to pay the price for it and a supplier can supply it. That include, failure rate, warranty management, precision range production, post production test and quality, and more and more.

Now to your point on Auto and boating industry comparison. Again, you like fact so let's go for it. You should compare small scale, mostly hand made production to large scale, mostly automatized production whatever the industry is.

Malibu, Nautique, Mastercraft are all premium boat, mostly hand made production, as........ Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Bentley, Morgan in UK are premium cars, mostly hand made production.

As far as I know, all those hand made car manufacturers handle warranty in house for all car components. Of course they do not repair supplier part, but they at least handle the support call. Remember, a manufacturer can negotiate anything with a supplier, that does not mean he has to handle level 2, 3, or other support level, he can handle only the call center if he wants.

Moreover, as far as I know, those cars are as clean on delivery as mass produced cars. Some are even better finished than mass produced cars. So why your premium Malibu boat cannot be as clean on delivery as mass produced 19 to 23 ft boat??? Or with a better fit and finish than mass produced 19 to 23 ft boat??? Again, Manufacturer choice, nothing else. I include the dealer network in it. Malibu choose their dealers, as you have seen they can remove the Malibu brand from a boat dealer as they wish (wizard lake marine if I am correct).

I hope all the brand fan boys will stop making false claim about the brand they love. This is true for Nautique and Mastercraft on all their respective forums. Those fan boys will always spread myth like that.

Having said so, yes a part can broke, yes something can be missed, the rate of failure is the real issue for premium brand. As this information is not made public by any premium boat brand and we do not have a JD power survey, it is hard to know which brand is really failing the last few years compare to others. In other word, which brand for cost reduction purposes made their quality goes south?

I will argue that Malibu as a public company has overhead cost that none of the other premium ski boat brands have (SEC compliance, reporting, auditing, board management, and more). In addition, the investors in Malibu stock, based on the current stock valuation, require from Malibu a strong future cash flow above the current level. To do so, Malibu needs to increase the production while reducing cost at the same time, yes both, read their 10K and management review at the beginning. I would not be surprised if the bad reviews about the Malibu quality over the last few year are more the result of a trend than just some bad luck customers, my opinion here.

 

 

[bamaboy]

6 hours ago, IXFE said:

i agree that QC isn't on par with some products we get (cars, cell phones, guns, etc.), but this issue isn't unique to Malibu.  I believe it's the entire industry.  The worst gel defects I ever saw on a new boat came on @bamaboy G23.  Would that stop me from buying a G?  Nope!  They fixed it when the season was over.  No harm, no foul.  Bottom line, this isn't a Malibu thing it's a boat thing.  Do I like it?  Nope.  But I've adapted  

Eh....The appearance of the gel defects on inspection was very concerning.  It looked like a few hundred tiny gel voids/air bubbles.  It turned out to be spray from another booth after mine was done and they wiped off with acetone.  Does that excuse it getting past QC?  Nope.  Was it the worst gel problem I've ever seen?  Nope.  In fact, my 2014 23 LSV had a huge gel void that I would consider much worse than some spray that wiped off with acetone.  So while the appearance was concerning and totally freaked me out, in the end it was much less of an issue. I did have some other cosmetic stuff from the factory that I would consider pretty minor and otherwise the boat has performed flawlessly.  

 

That being said, if I bought another G23 and it had the same issue, would I buy a third?  I don't know.  I would have to think long and hard about that.  Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  

[IXFE]

32 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

Eh....The appearance of the gel defects on inspection was very concerning.  It looked like a few hundred tiny gel voids/air bubbles.  It turned out to be spray from another booth after mine was done and they wiped off with acetone.  Does that excuse it getting past QC?  Nope.  Was it the worst gel problem I've ever seen?  Nope.  In fact, my 2014 23 LSV had a huge gel void that I would consider much worse than some spray that wiped off with acetone.  So while the appearance was concerning and totally freaked me out, in the end it was much less of an issue. I did have some other cosmetic stuff from the factory that I would consider pretty minor and otherwise the boat has performed flawlessly.  

 

That being said, if I bought another G23 and it had the same issue, would I buy a third?  I don't know.  I would have to think long and hard about that.  Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  

You're kinda making my point. No big deal. You handled it same as I would have  

However, if that was a Malibu one of the idealists in this thread would have posted an "Epic fail" topic and this place would have gone DEFCON 1.

[Chattwake]

Billjames -  You sure do make a lot of assumptions about how the inboard sportboat industry works.  I'm surprised that someone with such familiarity apparently doesn't know that MasterCraft is also a publicly traded company.  You're now trying to compare the operations of Malibu, Supra, Mastercraft, etc. with Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley?  Come on man....    If you want to draw logical comparisons, I guess you could focus your discussions purely on the inboard towboat segment, and make more logical arguments, like how the warranties of MasterCraft, Malibu, Supra, Nautique, MB, etc. compare.  Well, you might not want to do that though because it doesn't fit your narrative (inboard sportboat manufacturers generally route drivetrain warranties directly through the engine manufacturer).  

This thread started because the OP was bashing Malibu's build quality.  My point, in regard to the engine and drivetrain, was simply that Malibu did not manufacture those parts; therefore, if the OP did experience a failure stemming from the build quality of such parts, it wouldn't make much sense to argue that the failure evidenced poor workmanship on the part of Malibu.  Now, if the OP had been criticizing Malibu for selecting a particular drivetrain from one manufacturer verses another, that would be a different story.   At the end of the day, the OP apparently didn't experience an engine or transmission issue, but, instead, hit something with his prop.  Accordingly, all of this argument about the drivetrain is irrelevant. 

As Billjames said "parts can broke."  Fortunately, here, it doesn't appear that parts did broke, and all the OP needed was a new prop.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Chattwake

[23LSVOwner]

Just now, Chattwake said:

Billjames -  You sure do make a lot of assumptions about how the inboard sportboat industry works.  I'm surprised that someone with such familiarity apparently don't know that MasterCraft is also a publicly traded company.  You're now trying to compare the operations of Malibu, Supra, Mastercraft, etc. with Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley?  Come on man....    If you want to draw logical comparisons, I guess you could focus your discussions purely on the inboard towboat segment, and make more logical arguments, like how the warranties of MasterCraft, Malibu, Supra, Nautique, MB, etc. compare.  Well, you might not want to do that though, because it doesn't fit your narrative (inboard sportboat manufacturers generally route drivetrain warranties directly through the engine manufacturer).  

This thread started because the OP was bashing Malibu's build quality.  My point, in regard to the engine and drivetrain, was simply that Malibu did not manufacture those parts; therefore, if the OP did experience a failure stemming from the build quality of such parts, it wouldn't make much sense to argue that the failure evidenced poor workmanship on the part of Malibu.  Now, if the OP had been criticizing Malibu for selecting a particular drivetrain from one manufacturer verses another, that would be a different story.   At the end of the day, the OP apparently didn't experience an engine or transmission issue, but, instead, hit something with his prop.  Accordingly, all of this argument about the drivetrain is irrelevant.  As Billjames said "parts can broke."  Fortunately, here, it doesn't appear that parts did broke, and all the OP needed was a new prop.

Yep. I think he needs to open his own boat company. Seems like he certainly knows everything about it......

 

 

[Chrisjjbrown]

6 hours ago, IXFE said:

my wandering thoughts on this subject...

fman is not alone.  five malibus to date (number six coming soon).  very few warranty items.  my '16 was by far the best with only trailer wheel hub go bad (grease leaked on the wheel).  only screen issue i ever had was a bad viper box on my '14 (the old screen).  I'm a pretty picky guy (known for being AWS most picky customer) but apparently not as picky as some.  

two guys in this thread are on their 3rd malibus and still bitching about QC, which begs the question... why did you keep buying?  I am not questioning your experience at all, just the wisdom of continuing to throw money at a company that has so obviously let you down.  I know I wouldn't.  I'm ruthless.  I wrote off Weathertech after ONE bad experience.  Ruger was very close to getting frozen out by IXFE but they came through just in time.  Just today I had a really unpleasant experience with Amex (corp card).  They are dead to me now... like forever.  If Malibu hosed me on two consecutive boats there wouldn't be a third.  

just bought a new spec house from one of the largest builders in the country (and not a value brand).  the punch list on this house would choke a horse, and two months in and it's not done.  Love the house, but wish it had the QC of my Malibus.  

the only place i've ever noticed misaligned cushions is the wakeview seat; it seems the bracket it's mounted to repositions that cushion a touch so the bead doesn't line it up perfectly.  Should Malibu make an adjustment?  Sure.  Do I care enough to start a thread?  Nope.  

My first boat had windshield gaps that were not concours quality.  I raised the issue.  dealer "adjusted" it (ie with shims).  still wasn't right.  another attempt, still not "spot on."  I started to realize the cure was worse than the problem and this was "normal" for boats.  This wasn't a Malibu btw (gasp, others have these issues??)

i agree that QC isn't on par with some products we get (cars, cell phones, guns, etc.), but this issue isn't unique to Malibu.  I believe it's the entire industry.  The worst gel defects I ever saw on a new boat came on @bamaboy G23.  Would that stop me from buying a G?  Nope!  They fixed it when the season was over.  No harm, no foul.  Bottom line, this isn't a Malibu thing it's a boat thing.  Do I like it?  Nope.  But I've adapted

I've found a few zip ties in my boats (remember, I install my own stereos so I see plenty behind the scenes).  I don't get the outrage.  Rather than start a thread, you know what I do?  I pick them up and never think about it again.  Much quicker for me that way.  

Is Malibu aware of the issues we write about?  Yes.  I know for a fact they have put processes in place to improve.  One dealer told me recently they have noticed fewer and fewer QC stuff the last two years... 2017 in particular.  

some will say I'm a malibu apologist so disregard my comments.  it's easy to assume that, but if you read closely i'm plenty critical of malibu.  worst stereos ever (pre '17), how they nickle and dime you on options, sub par regular wave, lousy surf band, crappy covers (I actually ordered one this year), coolers without drains, small bow tanks, etc.  I have even openly praised other brands, other waves, etc. on this forum.  nobody owns me.  i call it like i see it.  Malibu looks amazing, is best all around performer for my family, and they hold their value very well.  

it really comes down to this... some people are idealists and others are pragmatists.  The idealists stand on their pedestals and whine, "it shouldn't be this way."  The pragmatist says, "Yeah, but it is and nothing I say is gonna change that."   Honestly, if you're that unhappy with your boat, dump it and move on... to another boat... to another hobby!  I would!  Life is too short.  As for me, I love boating too much to be pissed at my boat all the time.  It's really simple... if you have issues, get them fixed and learn to enjoy the process (I actually like visiting my dealer).  

I think IXFE makes some good points here.....I love how zip ties,  screws, and other items in the bilge always get brought up as lack of QC.   Should they be there no,  but honestly who cares.  

Cosmetic issues can get fixed at the end of season....as long as your dealer gets those cleaned up, or fixed for you it is not a huge deal.  Is it an annoyance for sure you want your new toy looking and working perfect....., and some of these are clear misses by Malibu and the Dealer during prep.   

Items that cause people to miss time on the water though are another story.  If you don't live near your dealer, or your dealer isn't proactive in getting you back on the water quickly I can see how you would be pretty upset after paying for a new boat.   Those that haven't experienced that seem to be the ones that always like to discredit someone else's experience.    If you wanted something that needed to be in shop all the time you would buy a used boat right?  

Fortunately there don't seem to be very many of these instances and Malibu still makes a great boat. 

[windy1]

The prop shop that fixed my bent prop said that a majority of damaged props they fix have no visual damage.  

[minnmarker]

24 minutes ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

  If you wanted something that needed to be in shop all the time you would buy a used boat right? 

Based on comments in this thread and others it seems new boats may spend more time in the shop than used boats. Perhaps there's a golden age range for these boats - after the manufacturing errors (and electronic bugs) are worked out but before stuff starts wearing out.

[CJAY]

I'm on my third Malibu.  My first was a VTX we bought used and that boat was amazing.  I've seen its service records and it had some warranty things early on, but had no issues for us.  Kept it 3 years and sold it for more than I bought it for.  My second malibu, a 14 LSV, was a lemon, nothing but problems on that boat.  That boat made it one year and the engine blew at the end of the first year, which led us to getting our third which is a 15 VLX has been great.  It's had a few warranty issues, it had a starter blowing fuses, my screen started flickering and some gel coat issues, but other than that it's been great.  These boats are hand made, they are going to have issues at first.  That's why I could never buy a new one every year, I feel like the first year is usually ironing things out.

[bbattiste247]

I love the Malibu brand and now I am on my 3rd...2010 247, 2016 23 LSV and now a 2017 23 LSV.

My 2010 had only one gelcoat issue, but in 2010 Malibu was not manufacturing nearly as many boats as they do today.  

My 2016 23 LSV had numerous QC issues...it was delivered without a sensor for the surfband. One had to be ordered and put in by my dealer. They told me they've had boats delivered without transmissions.

My 2017 23 LSV had a walk through windshield shatter at a low speed and my windshield needs replacing. Now at 12 hours my service warning light and horn was going off at least every 5 minutes even shutting down my motor on several occasions. Not sure what it is, but anxious to find out, and I know it is not the 10 hour service because I had reset it. The Malibu design is awesome, but they do need to step up their QC!

 

[REHinH20]

14 hours ago, potterm said:

Great news from my dealer today.  The prop that I thought looked "perfect" was actually damaged.   They installed my backup prop (which they drove back to my slip to get) and vibration is gone.  Just need to adjust the rudder which was off from the factory. impressed by all the people on this thread that totally called the debris strike.  Code is hopefully not a big deal.  They think it was a knock sensor code.  Strange since I just filled up with 93 octane/ethanol free gas.  I'll keep my fingers crossed (intermittent codes that could not be resolved was the biggest headache of my LSV).  

 

SOOOO.....I"m guessing it was no longer such an EPIC FAIL?  Glad to hear you are getting the Bu back and on the water, now time for some pics of that baby!?!

[23LSVOwner]

43 minutes ago, bbattiste247 said:

 They told me they've had boats delivered without transmissions.

 

Your dealer is full of crap.

 

The engine/transmission/v drive comes in assembled and the boat manufacturer puts it in the boat as a package.

[willyt]

Teamtalk has been boring recently. Thanks for keeping it interesting over here 

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

However, if that was a Malibu one of the idealists in this thread would have posted an "Epic fail" topic and this place would have gone DEFCON 1.

There is some irony in the attitude when you don't trust Malibu to install a stereo tho, right?  I mean I'm pretty sure you already see the WS stereo to be a debacle in the making... so it's "Malibu is great and does most everything right and can be trusted and QAQC is good and Malibu will do right by you...." except as to the stereo?

 

[bamaboy]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

You're kinda making my point. No big deal. You handled it same as I would have  

However, if that was a Malibu one of the idealists in this thread would have posted an "Epic fail" topic and this place would have gone DEFCON 1.

I wasn't disputing that all brands have issues.  I was mainly clarifying that the "worst gel issues ever" turned out to be over-spray that wiped off with acetone.

 

We all know that Nautique would never send a boat out with a gel void.  At the end of production, the boat is waxed with the secretions of male bald eagles.  This seals all gel voids

[23LSVOwner]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

There is some irony in the attitude when you don't trust Malibu to install a stereo tho, right?  I mean I'm pretty sure you already see the WS stereo to be a debacle in the making... so it's "Malibu is great and does most everything right and can be trusted and QAQC is good and Malibu will do right by you...." except as to the stereo?

 

He likes to do his stereo, his way. I don't see where you can fault him for that, especially in this context.

 

Hell, if I could order a vehicle with a stereo delete these days I would. I always redo everything anyways.

[Stevo]

21 minutes ago, willyt said:

Teamtalk has been boring recently. Thanks for keeping it interesting over here 

Recently????

that place been tumbleweeds since the great troll thread of 2016