M235 first day EPIC FAIL

[Bawshogg]

I've never broken anything in the way those papers say. I run it like I'm gonna use it and never look back. Haven't had a MAJOR issue to speak of in 15 years of boats and a lifetime of trucks, cars , quads, motorcycles , ect. 

Now I HAVE had the nagging check list stuff that typically comes with a new boat. I always chalked it up as part of the game. Don't matter if the boat is 35k or 200k .... same results. On that note, I would hope for progression at least from Malibu when it comes to QAQC and not the regression that seems to be the case lately. 

I seen some SHADY IsH outta there and it's sad . Sad for the consumer and sad that they don't strive to build a better product. At some point you gotta take a step back and reavaulate your mission . 

My local Malibu dealer had expressed almost the same frustrations have to correct Malibus manufacturing issues to satisfy THIER customers .... cause they DO care. 

[IXFE]

10 hours ago, TenTwentyOne said:

It seems that It really all comes down to whatever break in procedures each marinizer pulls off the top of their head. They are all different, and there is a ton of opinions/viewpoints on break in procedures.

The greatest irony in this, is that your brand new 0 hour engine is worked hard through its paces, with the boat full of ballast, just after its fired up for the first time at the factory.......

When I was at the factory last year we demo'd  a M235 with full ballast, and we surfed it all afternoon!  That boat had a grand total of TWO hours on it!  

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

5 hours ago, SCMike said:

I'm not bagging on Malibu at all, but this comment just isn't true unless Malibu allows it to be true.  Do you think hose clamps are not fitted properly and extra screws are laying around in a Rolls Royce?  Every RR that rolls off the line is hand built, even the engines. If quality and craftsmanship are on your DNA, you just don't accept those type of errors. 

I'm also not comparing the build process of RR vs. Malibu (I understand they are totally different) I'm just so not agree with that hand built statement leads to less quality. That simply is not true. 

This is exactly what I said later in the thread. 

[bamaboy]

7 hours ago, Fman said:

That sucks no doubt with your LSV, not even close to my experience with multiple Malibu' s over the past 7 years.  I'm just not a fan of venting publicly when your upset.  It just comes off wrong and really does nobody on either side any good.  It sounds like your dealer is taking care of you which is why it is so important to have a good dealer.  The dealer really can make or break the brand.

I am definitely not saying Malibu is perfect, but your experience wow...just hard to figure it out.  I guess I have had so much good results with Malibu it just seems odd to me.

An educated potential buyer would want to know about his experience.  Just like they would want to know about yours.  

If I was buying a 150k+ boat I would want to hear about positive and negative experiences not just sunshine and rainbows

[bamaboy]

5 hours ago, IXFE said:

When I was at the factory last year we demo'd  a M235 with full ballast, and we surfed it all afternoon!  That boat had a grand total of TWO hours on it!  

 

I talked with the head engineer during my tour at the ilmor plant about this..  Here's what he said about breaking in the 7.4 on my x30.  Notice the quotes. 

 

"Go easy on her the first hour then balls to the wall."

Edited April 11, 2017 by bamaboy

[DarkSide]

1 hour ago, bamaboy said:

 

An educated potential buyer would want to know about his experience.  Just like they would want to know about yours.  

If I was buying a 150k+ boat I would want to hear about positive and negative experiences not just sunshine and Reading the post he appears to be happy with the dealer itself just the lack of QAQC on his 2 previous boats, and now this one too. 

This exactly,  plus negative posts make the same persons positive posts more credible.    If every post is sunshine and rainbows,  to me I discredit that person as a dealer,  promo owner, etc.  Make no mistake it is good to have dealers present.   Especially if they are strait forward about it.  Mason was a great example of this.    

However the best info comes from owners who aren't afraid to be positive or critical.

[RedOwl]

Dumb ?

Do dealers have a Malibu-required checklist to complete when they take delivery of a new boat from the factory? Is there some sort of '200 point checklist' they MUST go through to satisfy their obligations as a Malibu dealer, or is it up to each dealer to set their delivery and inspection routine?

 

[DarkSide]

8 hours ago, Bawshogg said:

I seen some SHADY IsH outta there and it's sad . Sad for the consumer and sad that they don't strive to build a better product. At some point you gotta take a step back and reavaulate your mission 

This is also a hazard, to the secondary community. Hypothetically, let's say @spikew919 took his shiny new M235 to Baws for sub upgrade.  BAWS doesn't notice the heater core clamps are loose, Baws does a great job installs everything and returns boat to spike.  2 months later heater core hose comes off, leaks coolant everywherw, boat overheats, etc.

Every single person is likely going to point the finger at Baws!  He will become the scapegoat. 

[BlindSquirrel]

Why are some people that posted here "okay or expecting" small issues with a $100k+ anything? I sold Lexus for 8 years and people would go nuts or even refuse a $55k car over the smallest of issue. Cut zip ties left everywhere? Loose hoes clamps? Come on.... that's bush league stuff right there.  For those same people, if you bought a new $500k house and kept finding issues everywhere would you still be happy about your purchase? Even if the builder came back and fixed the items you complained about, like the dealer, ... would you still say, " ahh it's built by humans that will happen"? My point is if I were to buy a new $100k+ Malibu, or any other boat, I would expect nothing less than perfection. If not, what am I paying for?

[Fman]

3 hours ago, bamaboy said:

 

An educated potential buyer would want to know about his experience.  Just like they would want to know about yours.  

If I was buying a 150k+ boat I would want to hear about positive and negative experiences not just sunshine and rainbows

I agree but let's get the FACTS of what actually happened before posting anything.  And let's be honest, we don't know people behind the keyboard, how they use there boat, maintain it, who they actually are, etc...so a lot of these threads I take with a grain of salt.  There are trolls all over forums.

His experience is NOTHING compared to what I have experienced with Malibu after FOUR boats now and over 750 hours in them.

Come over and crawl through my lsv, you won't find loose hinges, misaligned windows, screens that don't work, hatches that don't stay closed, etc etc...

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Fman

[85 Barefoot]

34 minutes ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Why are some people that posted here "okay or expecting" small issues with a $100k+ anything? I sold Lexus for 8 years and people would go nuts or even refuse a $55k car over the smallest of issue. Cut zip ties left everywhere? Loose hoes clamps? Come on.... that's bush league stuff right there.  For those same people, if you bought a new $500k house and kept finding issues everywhere would you still be happy about your purchase? Even if the builder came back and fixed the items you complained about, like the dealer, ... would you still say, " ahh it's built by humans that will happen"? My point is if I were to buy a new $100k+ Malibu, or any other boat, I would expect nothing less than perfection. If not, what am I paying for?

Because for the price delta of a malibu or axis compared to a nautique, I'm more than fine finding usually 5-10 washers or carpet scraps, as I usually do in the bilge that were not accessible at assembly.  Secondly, as all the boats are winterized prior to shipping, dealer is responsible for "commissioning" the boat.  Some dealers actually look through the boat to clean up.  Others, apparently not.  I don't know which hose clamp OP said was loose and I haven't winterized a 2017 but if its a hose that is loosened in winterization then that's on dealer prep.  As for other adjustments on gas shocks, again, not crazy, and dealer responsibility IMO to adjust and inspect prior to delivery.  

Edited April 11, 2017 by 85 Barefoot

[dcsnowwake]

19 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Yes, it does suck for the OP. I had a lemon myself. It was not the most fun thing to deal with, but my dealer and Malibu made it right. I couldn't have asked for anything more.

I was also not making an excuse, but stating a fact. Because boats are 100% built and inspected by humans, things are going to get missed. Even in the auto industry were most things are error proofed automatically, things get missed. It is a part of manufacturing.

 

Please message me how they made it right. I have a really bad lemon and they are not replacing it and the dealer is trying but Bu gives me the run around.

Thanks!

[Fman]

As I mentioned, there are trolls all over forums.

[DarkSide]

26 minutes ago, Fman said:

I agree but let's get the FACTS of what actually happened before posting anything.  And let's be honest, we don't know people behind the keyboard, how they use there boat, maintain it, who they actually are, etc...so a lot of these threads I take with a grain of salt.  There are trolls all over forums.

His experience is NOTHING compared to what I have experienced with Malibu after FOUR boats now and over 750 hours in them.

Come over and crawl through my lsv, you won't find loose hinges, misaligned windows, screens that don't work, hatches that don't stay closed, etc etc...

 

 

The funny thing is, this is exactly MY experience.  I put 400+ hours on 2 Malibu's in 3 years,  the 2 boats combined spent 140+ days in the shop during that period, but that is a whole new topic.  @bbattiste had his windshield fall through the walkway of his 2017 23LSV, so there are good and bad experiences with the same model/year.  I am really happy yours has been stellar!  I don't think either end of the spectrum is the norm.   The norm lies in the middle, and a great dealer can make a huge difference. 

[REHinH20]

32 minutes ago, BlindSquirrel said:

Why are some people that posted here "okay or expecting" small issues with a $100k+ anything? I sold Lexus for 8 years and people would go nuts or even refuse a $55k car over the smallest of issue. Cut zip ties left everywhere? Loose hoes clamps? Come on.... that's bush league stuff right there.  For those same people, if you bought a new $500k house and kept finding issues everywhere would you still be happy about your purchase? Even if the builder came back and fixed the items you complained about, like the dealer, ... would you still say, " ahh it's built by humans that will happen"? My point is if I were to buy a new $100k+ Malibu, or any other boat, I would expect nothing less than perfection. If not, what am I paying for?

I'm not sure I follow where you were going with the comment about buying a house.  I think you were saying that if you buy a $500k house you expect it to be perfect??  If that is in fact what you were saying - I believe you must not own a house.  I don't know of ANYONE who has purchased a house and didn't find numerous things to correct.  Even a new one will have imperfections that someone (homeowner or original builder) must correct.  The material that goes into a home (or boat) is not 100% exact, so boards, glass, metal plastic will have variations that don't fit like they were intended in theory.  If i"m getting this wrong, please help me to understand where you were intending that comment to go.

[wilster]

While I love my 2015 23LSV, anecdotally, it has had some "break-in" issues, gremlins and other things that I wouldn't expect from buying a $100k piece of machinery--and yes it is a boat and not a space shuttle they are building, so it is reasonable for us to expect close to perfection within a warranty period.  With the prevalence of these issues, Malibu is putting a lot of pressure on their dealers and at some point those dealers may give up on Malibu.  I've got 150hrs on my boat now, and here is what I've seen/experienced:

- loose/misplaced oil line clamp caused oil to leak all over engine compartment at 20hrs.  I still see rainbow water from the bilge after a day's use.

- I've found probably four or five cut zip ties, four screws, two random bits of fiberglass.

- clouding of the black sparkly premium paint (just starting to raise this issue with Malibu/dealer)

- bad viper unit needs to be replaced (in process)

I'm glad Malibu has moved to a 5yr warranty, but now they need to beef up QA/QC so they can make money on that proposition. 

 

[AJwakedevil]

50 minutes ago, Fman said:

As I mentioned, there are trolls all over forums.

If every boat came out 100% there would be nothing to complain about, this forum would slowly die, and trolls would starve...

[BlindSquirrel]

35 minutes ago, REHinH20 said:

I'm not sure I follow where you were going with the comment about buying a house.  I think you were saying that if you buy a $500k house you expect it to be perfect??  If that is in fact what you were saying - I believe you must not own a house.  I don't know of ANYONE who has purchased a house and didn't find numerous things to correct.  Even a new one will have imperfections that someone (homeowner or original builder) must correct.  The material that goes into a home (or boat) is not 100% exact, so boards, glass, metal plastic will have variations that don't fit like they were intended in theory.  If i"m getting this wrong, please help me to understand where you were intending that comment to go.

Yes I do own a house, we built, and was referring more towards the the quality of the build. A good builder, or QC department in the manufacturing world, should catch most if not all issues before the customer takes possession or delivery. Maybe a house is not the best example here. I guess a better question might be... How much should I expect to pay for a boat to not have issues at first? To not have Mickey Mouse things forgotten? Is $100k+ not enough?  

[jjackkrash]

2 minutes ago, BlindSquirrel said:

How much should I expect to pay for a boat to not have issues at first? To not have Mickey Mouse things forgotten? Is $100k+ not enough?  

Not to excuse poor QC--some companies are better than others--but with boats generally, bigger, more complex, and more expensive, means generally more problems over the life of the boat, from delivery to decommission.  My dad works as a liaison with the customer between sales and the shop/set up on some pretty big boats (cruisers), and the biggest problems on delivery generally come from the biggest, most expensive boats.  You should hear about some of the issues from the factory on a $5M+ boat until they get it dialed in.  If you want flawless from the get go, a 14ft. aluminum boat with a honda trolling motor and zero electronics is the way to go.  

 

[minnmarker]

Taking this thread on a bit of a tangent but my cabin is 2 hours from the dealer and I think I'll stick with well maintained used boats and give someone else the job of hauling a new boat back to the dealer once or twice or more per year during the warranty period.  I don't want to waste my time hauling the boat around and really don't want to loose water time during the summer.  Thanks guys that buy new!

If a Malibu dealer was on my lake that would be another story - maybe.  The only dealer is a Centurion shop and I'm not going there because we still slalom.  Fortunately the mechanic is Indmar and Mercruiser certified.

[DarkSide]

Not to derail further on house thing.   However one of my friends is a VP at a local builder.  The final walkthrough is done without construction present.  Only buyer and customer service.  Customer service reps are SUPER picky.  The reason being, any defects they find construction has to fix out of construction departments budget.  Any repairs/warranty work after close comes out of customer service budget.  So customer service has vested interest in finding any flaws.  

Same concept could easily be applied to boats.  Have the warranty department guys inspect before they leave, i am willing to bet defects leaving the factory would drop significantly.

[spikew919]

1 hour ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Because for the price delta of a malibu or axis compared to a nautique, I'm more than fine finding usually 5-10 washers or carpet scraps, as I usually do in the bilge that were not accessible at assembly.  Secondly, as all the boats are winterized prior to shipping, dealer is responsible for "commissioning" the boat.  Some dealers actually look through the boat to clean up.  Others, apparently not.  I don't know which hose clamp OP said was loose and I haven't winterized a 2017 but if its a hose that is loosened in winterization then that's on dealer prep.  As for other adjustments on gas shocks, again, not crazy, and dealer responsibility IMO to adjust and inspect prior to delivery.  

Op did not say hose clamps but n his boat was loose. Was on my m235 that got delivered to my dealer. He went through boat and then lake tested. Boat run hot and  emptied both reservoirs on engine cooling system that is full of antifreeze from factory, use filled from factory loosely" almost 3 gallons of indmars super antifreeze that they say voids warranty if any other is used,at this point both heated cores and lines are full,  then lake test again, all is good. I pick up the boat that I'm going to say is priced higher than the nautique I demoed. Get home with boat and getting it ready to take out first chance I get.  Open compartment where if you look underneath there is heater core. Plain site clamps loose down hoses never put on. Keep in mind the system is closed and full of super antifreeze, so witerization from factory don't hold water in my opinion, or the engineer that they have that thinks you have to drain antifreeze for winter did not have a firm grasp on the word,ANTIFREEZE,  anyway, I could see the dealer should have caught those two. But since 2 out of 2 so far was never even put in place. Lifted seat on bow, removed compartment, slid fancy aluminum bow wind door out the way and there say other heater core. They did get both clamps in place but must have dropped but driver cause only tightened one. Now I must say, I really don't feel the dealer should have to disassemble the boat to check ever clamp and nut and bolt. I may be wrong. 

 

 

I love the boat, just expected a little more. 

[spikew919]

Moral of the whole story is, people at Malibu's plant and everywhere need to get back to having pride in their work. I have a business and am a bit of a perfectionist. If I were malibu I would want to hear these things and after the second time I hear the same worker leave clamps off, I would have a new worker the next day. And you can ask any of my guys that work along side me, I never tell anyone to do anything, I ask, and I will never ask anyone to do anything I won't or have not done myself. Just my 2 cents 

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Because for the price delta of a malibu or axis compared to a nautique, I'm more than fine finding usually 5-10 washers or carpet scraps, as I usually do in the bilge that were not accessible at assembly.  Secondly, as all the boats are winterized prior to shipping, dealer is responsible for "commissioning" the boat.  Some dealers actually look through the boat to clean up.  Others, apparently not.  I don't know which hose clamp OP said was loose and I haven't winterized a 2017 but if its a hose that is loosened in winterization then that's on dealer prep.  As for other adjustments on gas shocks, again, not crazy, and dealer responsibility IMO to adjust and inspect prior to delivery.  

Except, this is an M235 we are talking about. There is no "Malibu is a little cheaper, so it's kind of acceptable", when we are talking about the most expensive 23'er out there.

As for the hose clamps..... I thought all raptor motors were closed cooled, in which case, there is no winterization of the heater system. In fact, loosening those clamps would be the last thing you would want to do in that case. Not saying the dealer shouldn't have caught it....... but at the same time, I don't think it is the dealers responsibility to take the boat half apart in order to double check the factory work. Had the boat been open cooled, and equipped with a heater, the tech would know to check that stuff.....That is not a prep at all. The dealer should be cleaning the inside, the parts of the bilge that are easily accessible, and cleaning up the gel, and fixing minor blemishes if there are any. Then they should water test, and verify operation of systems and options.

They shouldn't be expected to take half of the boat apart, check tightness on every screw and clamp, fix major gel screw ups, adjust the windshield, etc, etc.. I don't feel that is on the dealer at all. They should be cleaning, perfecting, and verifying operation. A dealer shouldn't be expected to be factory QC on top of that IMO.

[Fffrank]

56 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Taking this thread on a bit of a tangent but my cabin is 2 hours from the dealer

I think you're forgetting about the "other" Malibu dealer.  There's one in Clear Lake that doesn't get much attention (or sell many boats!)