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AJwakedevil

Different take on suck gate design??

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AJwakedevil

We all know suck gates. Delayed convergence blah blah. basically mimics the surf tabs. Have even seen someone post on here sticking a plank of wood flush to the back of the boat so it is hanging out the side to mimic the NSS.

QUESTION: what about trying something facing down, like the MC Gen2 surf system. Instead of having a suck gate with a tab sticking out the push the water away, rigging it up so it sticks down and push the water down/list the boat.

 

Any thoughts? Since the surf gate suck gate works so well why change it right? I guess its just the Curious George in me. 

Would this list the boat some what? Would it aid in delayed convergence? Would it get pushed off from the force (unlike the normal styled force of pushing it towards the boat, it would be pushing at a 90 degree angle from the suction mounting surface trying to peel it off)? 

could it be used in tandem with the normal suck gate, with one wedge pushing out and a smaller wedge pushing down?

 

Also, ran across a thread on here where a dude used a gurney flap on the end of his gate. Look the term up on google. Will that aid the wake in any way? Will it help the driving characteristics at all? or is it just flub and a made-up application in this environment? 

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MadMan
2 hours ago, AJwakedevil said:

We all know suck gates. Delayed convergence blah blah. basically mimics the surf tabs. Have even seen someone post on here sticking a plank of wood flush to the back of the boat so it is hanging out the side to mimic the NSS.

QUESTION: what about trying something facing down, like the MC Gen2 surf system. Instead of having a suck gate with a tab sticking out the push the water away, rigging it up so it sticks down and push the water down/list the boat.

 

Any thoughts? Since the surf gate suck gate works so well why change it right? I guess its just the Curious George in me. 

Would this list the boat some what? Would it aid in delayed convergence? Would it get pushed off from the force (unlike the normal styled force of pushing it towards the boat, it would be pushing at a 90 degree angle from the suction mounting surface trying to peel it off)? 

could it be used in tandem with the normal suck gate, with one wedge pushing out and a smaller wedge pushing down?

 

Also, ran across a thread on here where a dude used a gurney flap on the end of his gate. Look the term up on google. Will that aid the wake in any way? Will it help the driving characteristics at all? or is it just flub and a made-up application in this environment? 

 

I had the same thought last year, kind of an auto-list device.  So I tried installing my suck-gate under the back, side of the boat, it was pushed off immediately.  I've considered making another one that is much shallower.

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RTS

While I'm certainly no expert on surfing/listing/such gate...it would seem to me that what you are proposing would simply lift one side of the boat out of the water.  While it might give you some 'tilt', I don't think it would give the same results as weighting on side down into the water for 'list'.  Probably would delay convergence, though.  But don't think it would do anything for driving the other side down creating a bigger wake.

And if I understand what you are thinking, it amounts to a trim tab....right?

Edited by RTS

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MadMan
3 minutes ago, RTS said:

While I'm certainly no expert on surfing/listing/such gate...it would seem to me that what you are proposing would simply lift one side of the boat out of the water.  While it might give you some 'tilt', I don't think it would give the same results as weighting on side down into the water for 'list'.  Probably would delay convergence, though.  But don't think it would do anything for driving the other side down creating a bigger wake.

And if I understand what you are thinking, it amounts to a trim tab....right?

The idea was to run the same 3500 lbs. ballast I do when using the suck-gate.  Yes, it's basically an $8 trim tab.

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Cmb396
On March 17, 2017 at 3:49 PM, shawndoggy said:

you mean go surf assist, right?

https://www.gosurfassist.com/

Pretty sure this is the system my buddy just installed on his Supra Launch. Cost like 4K!! We're anxious to see how it performs. He had to something after I got my lsv last year with SG, lol!!

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AJwakedevil
On 3/19/2017 at 11:31 AM, Cmb396 said:
On 3/17/2017 at 2:49 PM, shawndoggy said:

you mean go surf assist, right?

https://www.gosurfassist.com/

Pretty sure this is the system my buddy just installed on his Supra Launch. Cost like 4K!! We're anxious to see how it performs. He had to something after I got my lsv last year with SG, lol!!

Exactly like that... except not $4k, and possibly on the side of the boat? Im quickly realizing that there is a lot more force in that direction and some cheap parts wont hold up. I will ghetto rig something in my garage and test for kicks and giggles without any expectations and post it on here if it ends up being worth the typing time.

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67King
On 3/17/2017 at 4:12 PM, RTS said:

While I'm certainly no expert on surfing/listing/such gate...it would seem to me that what you are proposing would simply lift one side of the boat out of the water.  While it might give you some 'tilt', I don't think it would give the same results as weighting on side down into the water for 'list'.  Probably would delay convergence, though.  But don't think it would do anything for driving the other side down creating a bigger wake.

And if I understand what you are thinking, it amounts to a trim tab....right?

In my opinion:  It would actually allow you to put weight down on both sides, so you'd get more overall weight.  I would expect that while it lifts up one side, it drops down the other, which would then shift teh balance of the boat towards that side.  My thoughts come from corner balancing race cars, where you don't lose or gain weight, you just move it around.  I imagine it probably adds some hydrodynamic lift to the boat, so it wouldn't be identical to having the ability to have, say 1500 pounds on one side, rather than 750 on each.  But I would bet it would actually be somewhere between having 750 on one side and 0 on the other and 1500 on one side.

 

I would, however, expect it to put a lot more stress on the hull than a gate does.

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AJwakedevil
16 minutes ago, 67King said:

I would, however, expect it to put a lot more stress on the hull than a gate does.

Stress on the hull isn't quite accurate as the thing with suck gates is that, enough stress on the hull equals the gate getting ripped off. The up force that would be created could twist the cups off. I wonder if mounting the two cups in a vertical alignment would help hold it on? Ill try it. Just not sure what effects to see. Im hoping for a mix of delayed convergence (in multiple directions) and lift assisted list 

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MadMan
4 hours ago, 67King said:

In my opinion:  It would actually allow you to put weight down on both sides, so you'd get more overall weight.  I would expect that while it lifts up one side, it drops down the other, which would then shift teh balance of the boat towards that side.  My thoughts come from corner balancing race cars, where you don't lose or gain weight, you just move it around.  I imagine it probably adds some hydrodynamic lift to the boat, so it wouldn't be identical to having the ability to have, say 1500 pounds on one side, rather than 750 on each.  But I would bet it would actually be somewhere between having 750 on one side and 0 on the other and 1500 on one side.

 

I would, however, expect it to put a lot more stress on the hull than a gate does.

This might be the best benefit  of these gates.  More weight = bigger hole in the water = larger wake.

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racer808

Having both Go Surf Assist & Tsunami wake gate (both have adjust-ability in angle) I can attest that it gives different waves.  With the GSA I get a very powerful long wave but the lip is weak for airs.  Great for learning 360's due to how long the wave is & being able to recover & there is just a ton of room to play, without measuring I can surf 15'-20' behind the boat, maybe it's only 12', I don't know you can just go really far back, I can also surf in the flats with ease there is so much push.  With the Tsunami gate angled I'd guess close to 45 degrees back, I get a huge lip, wave is still long but not as long.  Put the face of the gate all the way forward & we get a wall of water chest high that is really fun to play with but too steep for airs & not enough for spins.  I should note I run 5400 pounds of ballast which I would venture is why I have so much push every where.  Haven't tried the NSS set up.

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racer808
On 3/21/2017 at 7:01 AM, AJwakedevil said:

Stress on the hull isn't quite accurate as the thing with suck gates is that, enough stress on the hull equals the gate getting ripped off. The up force that would be created could twist the cups off. I wonder if mounting the two cups in a vertical alignment would help hold it on? Ill try it. Just not sure what effects to see. Im hoping for a mix of delayed convergence (in multiple directions) and lift assisted list 

This.  My first home made suck gate is 150' under water at the moment....

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racer808
On 3/17/2017 at 2:12 PM, RTS said:

While I'm certainly no expert on surfing/listing/such gate...it would seem to me that what you are proposing would simply lift one side of the boat out of the water.  While it might give you some 'tilt', I don't think it would give the same results as weighting on side down into the water for 'list'.  Probably would delay convergence, though.  But don't think it would do anything for driving the other side down creating a bigger wake.

And if I understand what you are thinking, it amounts to a trim tab....right?

It doesn't tilt, it's the exact same principal as surf gate just located in a different space.  I run 1100's on both sides & there is zero tilt, when surfing behind it you can see what it's doing & it's nothing more than delaying convergence like a gate does.  Mine has adjust tabs at the end of the GSA but I find it worthless & run them flat.  

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