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cwkoch

Malibu- New engines in 2019??

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cwkoch

Heard a rumor about Malibu marinizing their own engines in 2019 (maybe 2018??). Does anyone know any more about this?  Will they be using GM or Ford blocks?

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BadgerBoater55

This thread is your best bet... Lengthy conversation on just about everything we know / can speculate thus far.

 

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cwkoch

Thanks for the link.... Missed that thread. Haven't been real active on here lately. Honestly, lost a lot of interest and excitement over Malibu boats since they went Ford. This is great news that they will be going back to GM blocks in the future!!

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85 Barefoot
On 3/17/2017 at 2:40 PM, cwkoch said:

Thanks for the link.... Missed that thread. Haven't been real active on here lately. Honestly, lost a lot of interest and excitement over Malibu boats since they went Ford. This is great news that they will be going back to GM blocks in the future!!

Have you driven one w the Ford?  The base 6.2 is pretty darn impressive, for several reasons.  I'm not opposed to GM, had many all w good luck, but the Ford is quite strong and oil changes a snap.

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cwkoch
Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

Have you driven one w the Ford?  The base 6.2 is pretty darn impressive, for several reasons.  I'm not opposed to GM, had many all w good luck, but the Ford is quite strong and oil changes a snap.

Yes, I've driven the base, the 450, and the supercharged.....   The base and the 450 are so damn loud you can barely talk in the boat while pulling someone. They also talk about the big torque, but it doesn't feel as strong as my LS3.....  Basically, the ford engines were bad enough to make me look at Nautique and Mastercraft, but if Malibu is going back to GM in 2019, I won't have to do that (I'll just need to hold onto my 2014 longer than I would like).

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85 Barefoot
Just now, cwkoch said:

Yes, I've driven the base, the 450, and the supercharged.....   The base and the 450 are so damn loud you can barely talk in the boat while pulling someone. They also talk about the big torque, but it doesn't feel as strong as my LS3.....  Basically, the ford engines were bad enough to make me look at Nautique and Mastercraft, but if Malibu is going back to GM in 2019, I won't have to do that (I'll just need to hold onto my 2014 longer than I would like).

Isn't it fair to chalk up some powertrain noise to the new reduction and prop?  Or was your 2014 1.76 as well?  I honestly don't recall when they went to that.

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cwkoch
3 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Isn't it fair to chalk up some powertrain noise to the new reduction and prop?  Or was your 2014 1.76 as well?  I honestly don't recall when they went to that.

Yeah, there's definitely more noise out of the tranny, but most of it is the engine.

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tjklein

3 big reasons from Malibu and my dealer on the switch...  (I was at the factory on Thursday and asked about it.)

1.  Warranty claims should be reduced.  They think they can make a more reliable product.

2.  Cost savings.  (obvious)

3.  Better mid tier engine choice.  The 450 is not really an upgrade.  (this is my opinion and my dealer mentioning customers aren't buying it like the LS3)

They've got some really good people that they've hired to work on their in house engines, but couldn't give me any names at this point.  They're really excited about it and you should see them starting to show up in boats late next season.  

 

I love GM engines so I was stoked when I first heard the switch!

Edited by tjklein

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85 Barefoot
38 minutes ago, cwkoch said:

Yeah, there's definitely more noise out of the tranny, but most of it is the engine.

my point is, with the new tranny, generally speaking, most are turning more RPMs lower in the speed range hence the engine noise in my experience and opinion.  But, GM will be fine to return to as well, though I rather like the dual spark plug and canister oil filter on the fords.

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The Hulk

Can't beat that good ol LSA!!! I miss her.... 

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Nitrousbird
On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:20 PM, 85 Barefoot said:

my point is, with the new tranny, generally speaking, most are turning more RPMs lower in the speed range hence the engine noise in my experience and opinion.  But, GM will be fine to return to as well, though I rather like the dual spark plug and canister oil filter on the fords.

You like have two spark plugs and a canister oil filter??!!  Why?  Double the plugs to change - what benefit is that.  I have canister oil filters (have two cars with them).  Give me a spin-on any day.

Our "local" dealer sells both Nautique and Malibu.  They are a well known dealer that sell both heavily.  I asked about the Malibu change and all that I talked to were happy about it.  They all said they preferred the GM powerplants in the Nautiques over the Fords in the Malibus. 

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85 Barefoot
3 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

You like have two spark plugs and a canister oil filter??!!  Why?  Double the plugs to change - what benefit is that.  I have canister oil filters (have two cars with them).  Give me a spin-on any day.

Our "local" dealer sells both Nautique and Malibu.  They are a well known dealer that sell both heavily.  I asked about the Malibu change and all that I talked to were happy about it.  They all said they preferred the GM powerplants in the Nautiques over the Fords in the Malibus. 

Well I have double plugs on my HEMI and I rather enjoy their perceived benefits...but I'm sure you'll tell me there is none, and maybe there's not and Ford is in bed with NGK.

As to canister oil filters, not having to crawl in a trunk space is always fine with me.  Is there some advantage to oily fingers and bilge I'm missing that a canister prevents?

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tjklein

Not a Ford guy at all, but outside of changing plugs, the maintenance is easier.  Winterizing the Raptor is easier than the Monsoon or the LSA.  

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Nitrousbird
1 hour ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Well I have double plugs on my HEMI and I rather enjoy their perceived benefits...but I'm sure you'll tell me there is none, and maybe there's not and Ford is in bed with NGK.

As to canister oil filters, not having to crawl in a trunk space is always fine with me.  Is there some advantage to oily fingers and bilge I'm missing that a canister prevents?

What perceived benefits are there?  A lot of high HP and exotic motors run with a single plug per cylinder - I don't but the benefit at all.

I thought all the newer boats came with the remote oil filter mounts (at the top of the motor).  For my motor, '00 and '01 were bottom and they moved to the top mount after that.  I agree, under the motor sucks which is why I converted.  That has nothing to do with canister vs spin on.  The canister in my wife's Audi is under the car (and stupidly placed).

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WAwinegrapes
2 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Well I have double plugs on my HEMI and I rather enjoy their perceived benefits...but I'm sure you'll tell me there is none, and maybe there's not and Ford is in bed with NGK.

As to canister oil filters, not having to crawl in a trunk space is always fine with me.  Is there some advantage to oily fingers and bilge I'm missing that a canister prevents?

when I see two plugs / cylinder ina Ferrari or lambo, then I will believe there is a reason to put 2 plugs/ cylinder.  When plugs were $0.69 each, that was ok, but plugs are and have not been $0.69 for quite awhile!

And some MB have 2 plugs/ cylinders, but some also have no dipstick to measure oil level.  and that makes NO sense.

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85 Barefoot
49 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

What perceived benefits are there?  A lot of high HP and exotic motors run with a single plug per cylinder - I don't but the benefit at all.

I thought all the newer boats came with the remote oil filter mounts (at the top of the motor).  For my motor, '00 and '01 were bottom and they moved to the top mount after that.  I agree, under the motor sucks which is why I converted.  That has nothing to do with canister vs spin on.  The canister in my wife's Audi is under the car (and stupidly placed).

I don't know the ford design but it either results in half the sparks per plug (longer service) or in some designs the "other" plug fires again giving a more complete fuel charge burn.

 

As to remote oil filter assemblys, you are correct, but I stilll prefer top sided canisters over oily bilge.

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TenTwentyOne

I could potentially be totally wrong......... and I know both Chrysler and Ford have more attractive explanations for the twin plug design...... that almost everyone else avoids, and still gets combustion rates as good or better........but, I do know first hand that both companies had an enormous amount of misfire, and coil issues, after switching to coil on plug engines. So, in my mind, it is no surprise that both of them doubled up their ignition system on the very next generation of engines they built. It certainly reduced the occurrence of MIL's, and powertrain fault codes P0300-P0310 (Ford had the V10, so they had potential for codes P0309, and P0310)

That is just my take on it......

Edited by TenTwentyOne

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Sixball

So I have been away long enough to know the engineering reasoning but I will bet it has much to do with emissions.  Could have slight difference in firing time or even firing the charge having to do with air flow from the intake valve. When you get into performance small things make a big difference. Valve angle cut, valve angle. Valve size can disrupt the charge the space between the valve and the cylinder wall. I just know there is a purpose or it would not be done. You would need to know how much the auto industry works at saving a dime or a pound. Indexing a spark plug can make a significant improvement but its not cheep to index plugs.  

 

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MadMan
1 minute ago, Sixball said:

So I have been away long enough to know the engineering reasoning but I will bet it has much to do with emissions.  Could have slight difference in firing time or even firing the charge having to do with air flow from the intake valve. When you get into performance small things make a big difference. Valve angle cut, valve angle. Valve size can disrupt the charge the space between the valve and the cylinder wall. I just know there is a purpose or it would not be done. You would need to know how much the auto industry works at saving a dime or a pound. Indexing a spark plug can make a significant improvement but its not cheep to index plugs.  

 

My thoughts exactly.

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Nitrousbird
3 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I don't know the ford design but it either results in half the sparks per plug (longer service) or in some designs the "other" plug fires again giving a more complete fuel charge burn.

 

As to remote oil filter assemblys, you are correct, but I stilll prefer top sided canisters over oily bilge.

That more complete burn (which is arguable) is emission only, where other manufacturers are passing without it. 

Why do you prefer top side canisters over top side spin-on's?  One could easily convert their bottom side spin-on to a canister (and hate it too).  Location has nothing to do with filter type. 

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85 Barefoot
1 hour ago, Nitrousbird said:

That more complete burn (which is arguable) is emission only, where other manufacturers are passing without it. 

Why do you prefer top side canisters over top side spin-on's?  One could easily convert their bottom side spin-on to a canister (and hate it too).  Location has nothing to do with filter type. 

I have yet to do an oil change with a spin on (cars and boats) that didnt require gloves, an oil pan, ziplocs, shop rags, a filter wrench and degreaser.  

I have yet to have a drop spilled from an old canister filter.  Mind you my experience is limited to a BMW 3 liter and the Ford 6.2, but I have seen nothing negative about them.  

In any event, since I always get the base motors, and I know you're no fan of the 350, the Ford 6.2, I will admit, is a more impressive engine than the monsoon 350 that I loved.  

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67King

Oh good friiggin' lord.

6 hours ago, WAwinegrapes said:

when I see two plugs / cylinder ina Ferrari or lambo, then I will believe there is a reason to put 2 plugs/ cylinder.  When plugs were $0.69 each, that was ok, but plugs are and have not been $0.69 for quite awhile!

And some MB have 2 plugs/ cylinders, but some also have no dipstick to measure oil level.  and that makes NO sense.

Show me a Ferrari or a Lamborghini with pushrods or inline valves.  I won't hold my breath.  Sheesh, they even used to use carburetors.  But they never made such a crappy engine with such a crappy combustion chamber.

 

The Ford has a superior combustion chamber.  It is much, much more similar to any Ferrari or Lamborghini or whatever.  Why?  The term is "pent roof chamber."  What does "hemi" mean?  Hemispherical.  It allows a smaller sur, face area/volume ratio than any inline valve crap out there.  Why 2 plugs?  Better burn, more torque, better fuel economy, and yeah......lower emissions.

 

It actually makes LOTS of sense.  If you konw what the hell you are talking about.

Edited by 67King

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WAwinegrapes
56 minutes ago, 67King said:

Oh good friiggin' lord.

Show me a Ferrari or a Lamborghini with pushrods or inline valves.  I won't hold my breath.  Sheesh, they even used to use carburetors.  But they never made such a crappy engine with such a crappy combustion chamber.

 

The Ford has a superior combustion chamber.  It is much, much more similar to any Ferrari or Lamborghini or whatever.  Why?  The term is "pent roof chamber."  What does "hemi" mean?  Hemispherical.  It allows a smaller sur, face area/volume ratio than any inline valve crap out there.  Why 2 plugs?  Better burn, more torque, better fuel economy, and yeah......lower emissions.

 

It actually makes LOTS of sense.  If you konw what the hell you are talking about.

slow down cowboy!  I was adding some humor...guess you missed it.

 

And having built performance engines for drag and race and ag use for 40+ years.  I have forgotten more than more ever know about building and tuning  performance engines.

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Woodski

While on the humor wagon, certainly these boats need all the great combustion technology while spinning at a whopping 1000 - 4000 rpm to get the job done.  Piston speed is not exactly at light speed for our application.

One can update a low mounted spin on oil filter to a remote inverted spin on with a simple remote oil filter kit & the Indmar GM version has the filter inverted with an oil catch.  I do like doing oil filter removals from the top on BMW vehicles w/o any spills. 

Edited by Woodski

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