Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
FlyBoyCoy

2016 23LSV 410 - prop question

Recommended Posts

FlyBoyCoy

Hi all - well it looks like the dealer has me convinced to go new. They had a couple lingering, never titled, zero-time boats left and made me one hell of a deal.

I should also say I could swear I have already seen this thread but now when I need the info I can't seem to find it. 

Anyhow, here's my question for the day with a little back story. 

I own an 07 23LSV w the standard 350 monsoon - I'd have to jump under and look but preeeeetty certain it's a cruise prop (sarcasm) because wide open throttle gets me in the 45mph range. I love this ability to cruise longer distances. I also weigh it down marginally (factory + another 1800 lbs or so) and rarely have crazy amounts of people and ballast. It does just fine with the cruise prop. I should also note we predominantly surfing.

So... amping up the power tot the new 410 ford my guess is I will have the same results. The dealer will give me my choice of props and if I don't like the one I get I can swap it free of charge. 

what is your experience with the cruise prop on the 410 monsoon? WOT speed? Still enough torque for surfing?

 

thanks in advance

Share this post


Link to post
Slurpee

Yes this has been answered a lot.  Many of us had to go learn that these new engines and transmissions had some different rules.  ACME 2277 or OJ 925A are 15.75" and 16.25" pitch 15" props respectively (though Acme and OJ measure pitch differently) that perform just about the same.  For me here in Texas with you these were the best props on my '16 22 VLX by a long margin.  Many others on here have said the same thing about the 23LSV.

Good luck with the new 'bu!

Here's my RPM plots.  I tested a lot of plots.  I've added to this one in the link below, but haven't updated the plots yet with a 2277.  Wasn't worth it to me because it was pretty much bang on the 925A Note the 925A is not the same as the 925... don't ask me why Eric used the same number all over again on such a different prop.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/forums/topic/61267-2016-22vlx-top-speed-help/&do=findComment&comment=932628

Edited by Slurpee

Share this post


Link to post
teamerickson

I went with the 2277. Seems to do pretty good. I also have a 2249 that I might try. 

I don't think you'll see 45 mph? Close maybe. 

Share this post


Link to post
hethj7

2277 for me but usually can only hit 39-40 MPH, which is fine for us.  

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

Excellent info everyone - will let you know what we go with. I'm down in Austin, so low elevation. Thanks again crew!

Share this post


Link to post
bbattiste247

In a 2016 23lsv at 1000 feet, I started with a 2249 and WOT is 35 MPH and high RPM's. I tried the 2277 and didn't see much difference except the top  speed was about 39 MPH. I decided to go with the 2401 with a 17.75 pitch. This prop puts me at about 43-44 mph WOT. But just make sure you keep plenty of weight up front so the prop will engage or else you will not be able to push a lot of weight when there is high bow rise. The 2401 also significantly cuts down on the whine of the tranny that is common in the 2016. 

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

Seems most like their 2277s and a WOT of just under 40. We do a lot of cruising up and down the length of lake austin so would be nice to have more cruise efficiency, run factory ballast with plug and plag locker sacks. Who has used the 2367? Results? 

Share this post


Link to post
Slurpee
11 minutes ago, bbattiste247 said:

In a 2016 23lsv at 1000 feet, I started with a 2249 and WOT is 35 MPH and high RPM's. I tried the 2277 and didn't see much difference except the top  speed was about 39 MPH. I decided to go with the 2401 with a 17.75 pitch. This prop puts me at about 43-44 mph WOT. But just make sure you keep plenty of weight up front so the prop will engage or else you will not be able to push a lot of weight when there is high bow rise. The 2401 also significantly cuts down on the whine of the tranny that is common in the 2016. 

Yes it does cut down on the whine of the tranny.  That was my main mission slowly stepping up prop pitches and plotting data.  I needed to find something that'd let me cruise at about 21-22mph and still stay at 3000rpm.  As 3000rpm is my Oh Hell No threshold for that tranny whine when I'm cruising and socializing.  Trying a higher pitch prop would be interesting to see what is given up in launching, towing, surfing.

It's not the prop by itself though that fixes the whine.  That's your prop letting your 2016 engine run at lower RPMs to achieve a given speed.  Seems obvious I know.  But its worth saying to be precise considering all the combinations of engines that are out now and will be out in the future.

For the record, WOT my rig (with surf pipe) does about 38-39mph.  No way you'd run like that though to "cruise efficiently".  The powertrain is so freaking loud and you can see the gas gauge moving. :) 

Edited by Slurpee

Share this post


Link to post
bbattiste247
13 minutes ago, FlyBoyCoy said:

Seems most like their 2277s and a WOT of just under 40. We do a lot of cruising up and down the length of lake austin so would be nice to have more cruise efficiency, run factory ballast with plug and plag locker sacks. Who has used the 2367? Results? 

The 2367 is the same as the 2401 in size and pitch. The cup is different, but I am not sure what difference that would make. I've been using the 2401 on my 2016 for a year now and I like it. It doesn't have as much torque and it takes longer to get on plane, but I love using it. It cruises very nicely and keeps the RPM's down.

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

lol I haven't even demo'd this thing. Tranny whine? I've had 3 chevy indmar v drives. What am I getting myself into w tranny whine? (Whispers - what is surf pipe? Oh Fresh Air Exhaust?)

Yea and no not cruising at WOT - but in my current 07 LSV when light(4-6 occupants) we cruise at roughly [email protected] [email protected] and JUST TO SEE WHAT ITLL DO IN SHORT SPURTS damn near [email protected] - we have zero issue surfing  - I love this range of our current rig and this is what I was hoping to reproduce w the 16

Share this post


Link to post
MadMan
12 hours ago, FlyBoyCoy said:

lol I haven't even demo'd this thing. Tranny whine? I've had 3 chevy indmar v drives. What am I getting myself into w tranny whine? (Whispers - what is surf pipe? Oh Fresh Air Exhaust?)

Yea and no not cruising at WOT - but in my current 07 LSV when light(4-6 occupants) we cruise at roughly [email protected] [email protected] and JUST TO SEE WHAT ITLL DO IN SHORT SPURTS damn near [email protected] - we have zero issue surfing  - I love this range of our current rig and this is what I was hoping to reproduce w the 16

The current trend in propping a tow boat is less pitch/more diameter.  This is because surfing at low speeds is very popular now.  The reason for doing this is to get the RPM up at low speeds to the point where the engine is generating enough horsepower. This makes it possible to get a heavily ballasted boat to the desired speed.  This approach works well for a dedicated surf boat.  The problem, of course, is that it kills your cruise speed.  But, there's more than one way to skin a cat.  Another way to achieve this result is with a prop that has about the same diameter as "factory" prop, with a little less pitch.  What this does, is at low speeds, at WOT, it presents less load to the engine allowing to reach a higher RPM (more horsepower).  But at cruise speed, where less thrust is required, there is less prop slip, allowing you to cruise at a more pleasant RPM. There are trade-offs, this is not optimized for a surf only boat, but it does allow you to cruise comfortably and surf  I'll bet you're current boat has this kind of prop (mine too).

Which way you go depends on your priorities.

Also, there seems to be a testosterone driven trend to be able to state "I am swinging an x-inch prop".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Slurpee
14 hours ago, FlyBoyCoy said:

lol I haven't even demo'd this thing. Tranny whine? I've had 3 chevy indmar v drives. What am I getting myself into w tranny whine? (Whispers - what is surf pipe? Oh Fresh Air Exhaust?)

Yea and no not cruising at WOT - but in my current 07 LSV when light(4-6 occupants) we cruise at roughly [email protected] [email protected] and JUST TO SEE WHAT ITLL DO IN SHORT SPURTS damn near [email protected] - we have zero issue surfing  - I love this range of our current rig and this is what I was hoping to reproduce w the 16

@FlyBoyCoy, before you overthink anything.  Demo the boat you want or one very close to it.  Don't get overwhelmed in the demo with all the new stuff.  At least not the entire time.  Take a bit to just cruise around.  Listen.  Launch with load, without, hard, soft, put it in reverse.  Try it all out and listen and feel the boat.  That's the best way of course.  Different props aren't going to change the sound made at any particular RPM.  And in the most extreme cases don't move RPMs needed for any speed or weight combination by more than 500rpms or so.  You can allow for that in your test drive to help set expectations if you plan on changing props from what you are demo'ing.

The surfpipe is the Fresh Air Exhaust type option yes.  I liked how it toned down the exhaust note on my last boat so I got it on this one from the factory.  I believe it works well for that.

The tranny "whine" is the sound from the transmission when engaged.  It's just what I think of as machine noise until about 3000rpm or so, and then it starts making it's way into an annoying whine.  There's a lot of moving parts.  For instance at 3000rpm there's stuff putting out a range of sound with fundamentals at 1700-3000kHz.  If you whistle and look at the spectrum (use a real time analyzer app on your phone for instance) you'll see that's right in the 1700-3000kHz range.  That's not a big deal if it isn't too loud.  I think it's too loud because it walks all over peoples voices and the mid-tones of music.  That means everything else gets louder.  Lots of folks like louder.  So it's up to you.

I've got a project I'm about to do for an economical noise solution soon that I'll post about when I'm done if it works. 

I quickly realized that I didn't need the 2016 High Torque Prop (2249).  I could fill up the boat with ballast and people and it didn't have to try to get surfing.  Lots and lots of leftover power.  So I started going up in pitch one propeller at a time till I found what worked for me. 

Edited by Slurpee
too wordy

Share this post


Link to post
Sailvi767

I had a 2016 VLX with the 450. I ran it with the 2277. It had no trouble handling full internal, 1600lbs of PNP and a 650lb bow sack. Top speed was 42MPH with no surf pipe. I pick up a 2017 23LSV with the 450 at the end of the month. It's coming with a 2277. I am going to attempt to run it with a 2401 after break in. Malibu appears to finally be realizing how capable the raptor engine is and now offers the 2401 as a option.

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

Thanks again to you all. I'll be interested to hear the project @Slurpee is working on.

Someone mentioned OJ making a custom 15x16.25 and it being the perfect prop for what I was looking for. Ok - more digging (until my wife catches me again - my research is making her nutso)

Share this post


Link to post
Sailvi767

I suspect that prop might hit the sweet Spot!

Share this post


Link to post
Slurpee
48 minutes ago, FlyBoyCoy said:

Someone mentioned OJ making a custom 15x16.25 and it being the perfect prop for what I was looking for. Ok - more digging (until my wife catches me again - my research is making her nutso)

Yeah. That's the prop I have. The invoice called it a 925A. But it's not on their website. They just designed and released it last summer. I recently sent it in for repair and when the woman looked it up she said it was in full production when I asked. 

If you ask they'll let you try before you buy. 

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

Direct from OJ or? (I went a re-read your posts above and you did mention that) thx again 

Share this post


Link to post
Slurpee
17 hours ago, FlyBoyCoy said:

Direct from OJ or? (I went a re-read your posts above and you did mention that) thx again 

Howdy @FlyBoyCoy, yes direct from OJ.  A year ago I emailed support there and Eric Johnson emailed me back and we've had a nice conversation since.  He's very helpful and let me try a whole series of props before I decided to keep the one I bought. Best customer service ever.  He also emailed me this morning and let me know that the 925A has a standard .110 cup.  He also let me know they now also have a 15x16.5" prop.  I don't know that I'll try it since it's only 0.25" increase in pitch, but maybe after I get my other projects done this spring.

PM me and I'll share his email.

Share this post


Link to post
Slurpee
On 3/5/2017 at 2:40 PM, FlyBoyCoy said:

Thanks again to you all. I'll be interested to hear the project @Slurpee is working on.

Howdy @FlyBoyCoy.  Here's the project I mentioned.  I figured it'd take me too long to get all the data parsed, but I wanted to share.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

Nettles has the 2401 on the way. Will get on the boat early next week. 

Share this post


Link to post
FlyBoyCoy

Heyo! Still haven't picked up the 2401. But I got a little closer to the bow ballast system today in detailing the pollen poo out of the boat. 

Q1 : how much water weight in that little tank? (Guessing 250-300)

Q2: if I removed that tank and placed the lead shot ballast bags instead in that cavity how much more weight would the lead provide? (Guessing 400-500) 

Q3: am I just totally off with my guesses?

Share this post


Link to post
Lees23

This thread has me second guessing about which prop to run on my '17 22VLX with base motor.  We rarely will have the boat loaded with ppl and I doubt I'll run more than PNP ballast.  We do like to take cruises. How loud is this tranny wine?  I am coming from a MasterCraft with pretty much open exhaust and a lot of exhaust noise.  I did opt for the surfpipe.  Does the surfpipe really slow the boat down(I keep reading posts about speeds quote with and without the surf pipe).  

I was planning on just running the standard setup but am thinking a little more pitch or diameter might not hurt if the motor will have plenty of torque or my use.

Share this post


Link to post
ConnollyCrew

2277 all the way.

Share this post


Link to post
ConnollyCrew
On 3/26/2017 at 4:10 PM, Lees23 said:

This thread has me second guessing about which prop to run on my '17 22VLX with base motor.  We rarely will have the boat loaded with ppl and I doubt I'll run more than PNP ballast.  We do like to take cruises. How loud is this tranny wine?  I am coming from a MasterCraft with pretty much open exhaust and a lot of exhaust noise.  I did opt for the surfpipe.  Does the surfpipe really slow the boat down(I keep reading posts about speeds quote with and without the surf pipe).  

I was planning on just running the standard setup but am thinking a little more pitch or diameter might not hurt if the motor will have plenty of torque or my use.

I can hit over 40 wot with 2277 and it handles 4500# no problem. It's the only option in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
2THEL8K

I've been looking at ordering a b/u prop.  Have a 2017 LSV on order an will likely order the 2249 since the boat will come with a 2277. 

Can someone please confirm the shaft size on a Malibu?  For some of the tool accessories, Waiemakers makes you select 1" - 1 1/8, or 1 1/4". 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...