iRide - sub install in drivers footwell

[shawndoggy]

So FWIW, I replaced a basslink in my old vride with an infinity kappa ($50 craigslist) 12 and the box depicted above and it was not a fair fight at all.  The basslink is decent for what it is (small, no need for external amp), but there's no comparison vs a modest 12 on 4-600 watts.

[Stevo]

How about the rubber grommets to shield the wire in tower holes?

[Nitrousbird]

On 3/5/2017 at 4:11 PM, MLA said:

Ideally, id go with a woofer that does not use a paper based cone. Sometimes you see the term cellulose and/or hybrid and laminate used to describe the cone material. The Wet Sounds XS-12 is 100% marine built and for less $$$. Rubber surround, composite cone (no paper of any kind), rubber spider (not cotton or other moisture holding material, gold plated binding posts. 

Read:  Wetsounds dealer.  Nothing wrong with Wetsounds and I would happily use their products, but the Exile subs are great performers too.

 

21 hours ago, Levi900RR said:

I don't know how crazy you want to go with bass, but I'm really happy with my basslink bolted to the wall under my helm. 

Sorry for the blurry pic, but I was able to cut about 3" off the stock kick plate and re-install it with that sub mounted up high.

My boat originally came with this (in observer compartment...obviously the wrong place for any sub).  I relocated under the helm like it should be.  It performs very well - FOR WHAT IT IS - but in no way, shape or form can compete with even a cheap amp/sub combo.

As for my setup, Exile sub in an off-the-shelf cheapie box.  I purchased it as a temp solution to finish my build until I could do the whole custom box deal.  It ended up performing so well I just kept it.  Rhino-lined (sold that way) on the outside, I waterproofed the interior.  Cut some stand-off's for the bottom of the box out of scrap King Starboard to keep it off the floor.  Several seasons of use and it is like-new still.  

[MLA]

2 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

but the Exile subs are great performers too.

So where was anything about performance mentioned? Strictly speaking to construction materials and those that are not ideal for a marine application.

So what is the point the "dealer" statement? Is there something there that is inaccurate? Is there something there you disagree with? 

[David]

Any brand of paper subwoofer in a boat from a non dealers perspective.... Even West Marine and Crutchfield (who sells paper woofers) strongly discourages the use of subwoofers with a pulp-based cone in a boat application. Beyond those two, the amount of published information stating the same from sources in the know is abundant. It's not a matter of the initial performance, but rather the certain and slow degradation of a pulp cone and its performance in a highly humid environment. It's about the changes in parameters with each humidity swing. Enclosures? Some loosely use the term 'bedliner'. However, in reality they are often using a water-based latex paint with a rough blown finish rather than a true solvent-based polyurethane bedliner. And MDF is micro-porous and definitely breathes. On the flipside, I have never read or heard of one legit reason to prefer or to use a paper cone subwoofer, particularly in the context of a boat. So if the Thiele/Small parameters are the same or similar, and the price is the same or similar, just use the marine subwoofer best suited for a boat. And that begins with a polymer cone material.    

Edited March 8, 2017 by David

[Fffrank]

43 minutes ago, David said:

I have never read or heard of one legit reason to prefer or to use a paper cone subwoofer, particularly in the context of a boat. 

Sure you have.  Price.  

It's no wonder that the people that sell and charge the premium for "marine-grade" components are the same ones that stand to profit off the sale of them.

I haven't decided which direction I'm going with my build, but I've always considered speakers (and head units) in a boat to be consumable items.  Moisture just isn't kind to these items no matter how robustly they are designed and built.  And if they do last more than 3-4 years, I'd probably get the itch for latest/greatest anyway....  

[David]

3 minutes ago, Fffrank said:

Sure you have.  Price.  

It's no wonder that the people that sell and charge the premium for "marine-grade" components are the same ones that stand to profit off the sale of them.

I haven't decided which direction I'm going with my build, but I've always considered speakers (and head units) in a boat to be consumable items.  Moisture just isn't kind to these items no matter how robustly they are designed and built.  And if they do last more than 3-4 years, I'd probably get the itch for latest/greatest anyway....  

Price is not at all a factor when it comes to a subwoofer using a paper or polymer cone (not like the small premium on marine electronics). You can get the same subwoofer product, with the same T/S parameters, at the same price, with the cone material being the only major difference. You might even get a synthetic non-linen spider and other marinized contruction techniques at the same price. Paper is not necessarily less expensive. Paper is simply a more accessible off-the-shelf material to foreign imports who might need cones of varying thicknesses, depths, voice coil diameter fitments, and weights. New tooling is the more expensive component and small companies avoid tooling costs to stay competitive. So paper cones hold no price advantage.     

[MLA]

1 hour ago, Fffrank said:

Sure you have.  Price.  

It's no wonder that the people that sell and charge the premium for "marine-grade" components are the same ones that stand to profit off the sale of them.

 

Hay frank. You need to go back and read my post and then google some brands. The 100% marine woofer IS LESS MONEY than the non marine paper coned woofer. 

[David]

Above, I shared the true reason why some importers or builders of subwoofers still use paper cones at this late date. There is also a myth that a paper cone is lighter, faster, and therefore more accurate. Total nonsense. A giant myth for multiple reasons. First, once the subwoofer adds an outer plastic dust cap or liner to protect the external side of the cone (and display their logo), mass has been added and the cone just got much heavier. So any benefit of a lighter cone, if one existed, would be defeated. Second, it's a subwoofer, not a midrange or midbass or woofer that has to reproduce higher frequencies. A subwoofer only has to reproduce up to 150 Hz. at the highest, so speed is not much of a factor in a slower realm of motion. Besides, voice coil inductance and many other factors have a considerable impact on a subwoofer's speed, so lower mass alone is indeed a small factor. Third, a subwoofer, as a dedicated low frequency resonator, has to conform to a target set of Thiele/Small parameters in order to be effective. If you made the cone much lighter, you would have to offset the change with a smaller magnet, a more compliant spider, a doped cone to increase the mass, a thinner conductor plate, a changed voice coil winding, or one of many other alterations to bring the entire speaker back into balance for the intended purpose. Fourth, if you want a subwoofer to work in a very small enclosure, which is the popular choice, you must have a minimum amount of moving mass. The days of low mass subwoofers are long gone. Contemporary subwoofers (since the developments by 'AR', Acoustic Research decades ago) use heavier mass, and longer Xmax to work in small enclosures.    

Now, can a paper cone subwoofer still sound good, at least initially? Absolutely. There's just no good reason anymore to use paper cones and plenty of reason not to in a boat.        

[jk13]

18 hours ago, David said:

Any brand of paper subwoofer in a boat from a non dealers perspective....  

David, I love having your input here and never want to lose it. We know this ^^ is true now that you are retired, but we also know this was not always the case. You and other 'one' brand dealers, the 'other' brand, and the community at large got this forum shut down and scrubbed a few years ago. ONE MENTION of the other brand in this thread has prompted multiple responses from you and another current dealer. With all due respect, I think it's time to get over it.

We have a few former dealers here, including myself, that have refrained many times. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by jk13

[David]

4 minutes ago, jk13 said:

David, I love having your input here and never want to lose it. We know this ^^ is true now that you are retired, but we also know this was not always the case. You and other 'one' brand dealers, the 'other' brand, and the community at large got this forum shut down and scrubbed a few years ago. ONE MENTION of the other brand in this thread has prompted multiple responses from you and another current dealer. With all due respect, I think it's time to get over it.

We have a few former dealers here, including myself, that have refrained many times. 

Thank you for your thoughts but my comments are in response to "paper woofers" and not any particular brand. You can make the brand association if you want but that is not a concern to me. There are many, many brands (DC Audio, RE Audio, Sundown Audio, DD Audio, Treo Audio, Ascendant Audio, Massive Audio, and at least a dozen more) that use paper cones and are primarily used in automotive, but are sometimes still used in boats. My comments are directed at all brands using paper cones. Sorry, if any particular brand, mentioned or unmentioned, gets in the way, and for those who have a special sensitivity to the subject. I'm not a dealer, and have no role whatsoever in the industry for going on 4 years now. Frankly, I'm shocked that people still cling to these archaic materials and will even attempt to reconcile their use. Being an enthusiast and a stickler for accuracy is what drives my comments on this topic and I am confident that my comments are informative and accurate. Beyond that, spend your own money on any type product you want. If you think my comments are inaccurate, please just ignore them.  

[jk13]

David, I never said you were wrong.

To the rest, nice try. Your coyness is not heightening my respect for you, of which I had a great deal. 

[minnmarker]

With all this sub swapping going on does anyone want to sell me a gently used WS XS-12?