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High Altitude Wakesurf Monster Prop!!


alpensurf23

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Just now, alpensurf23 said:

LS3, 10.6 mph, do not recall rpms other than were not concerning. I cannot emphasize the quickness of formation on both sides, the lack of adjustment on regular, and the performance with boat loaded and lift mode. I will take better notes for sure and better pictures for Shawndoggy ( he likes pictures a lot). If you have the ability to try some Acme props, through Acme or Dealer and are close or over 6000. Try this one out.

I have it, it's just different cupping, that's why I am asking.  I had the 2937 which is 15x11 & my RPM's were higher than when I switched to the 2951 which is 15x10.5 like yours, but the cupping is .105 in lieu of your .075.  Mine gets right up no issue with 5400 pounds at 5200'.  My top speed is like 27mph at 5000 rpm though

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My top end Boat empty has been 29-31 given wind and doesn't max out rpms.I can hit 29 as well with 3 adults on board. I spoke with Acme inquiring about 15x11 .075 cup and was told it would drop rpms a  very small amount and really not be much different. We are in the same ballpark it sounds.

Edited by alpensurf23
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Not sure it is even possible to answer this question but Ill try it anyway.  I have a '17 22 VLX on order (subject to test ride) with the 410 on a diamond hull.   For now, I will only have stock hard tanks.  My normal crew I expect to be 5-6, some days will be only 3, some days may be a full load (however I don't imagine I will ever have more than 8 and maybe a dog).  

I will run it primarily on Horsetooth reservoir (5430 elevation at full pool).   I will run it primarily for recreational waterskiing, and surfing.  My entire family will be beginner surfers.   I expect that early mornings will be skiing, and then a lot of surfing.   I slalom ski at 30-31mph.   I would guess our usage will be about 40% skiing, 50% surfing, and 10% wakeboarding.   

The dealer recommended the altitude/torque prop - 15 x 1425 2249, so that is what is on the order.    I have read up a bunch on size, pitch, and cup, but don't really yet understand how the interplay of those affects performance (I get the basics, but say changing cup and pitch together would affect it).   From what I have read, I THINK the 2249 is supposed to be a decent all around prop for this boat.  I THINK I should be able to surf and ski nicely with the 2249 despite the altitude.   But over time, I think we will do more surfing, and less skiing. 

The net of what I am wrestling with is this: 

  • Is the 2249 really the best choice for my all around usage at least in the short term (for example, until I start adding PNP bags)?
  • Sometime this summer, I will pick up a spare prop.   Assuming that my usage starts to shift to more surfing, seems like I should choose a prop that would be more optimized to surfing.    I don't mind swapping props occasionally to optimize performance to what I expect the day to be like, the size of my crew, or the amount of ballast I expect to have.   Seems like the OP suggestion of the 2943 might be interesting!

I spent a lot of time on the 410/450 thread - while I would have loved to outfit the boat with the 575, there was just no way I could get that in the budget, and the difference between the 410 and the 450 didn't seem to be worth the 6K+ that it was going to cost me, especially considering the 410 and 450 seem to have the same HP and torque curves to 3800 RPM.

I am still waiting for a ride in a 22 VLX at altitude, but have not been able to get weather and schedules to line up yet.

Any thoughts would be welcome...

Edited by JeffC
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30 minutes ago, alpensurf23 said:

My top end Boat empty has been 29-31 given wind and doesn't max out rpms.I can hit 29 as well with 3 adults on board. I spoke with Acme inquiring about 15x11 .075 cup and was told it would drop rpms a  very small amount and really not be much different. We are in the same ballpark it sounds.

They said that too to me but I had the opposite affect, going from the 15x11 to the 15x10.5 my rpms went down 200.  That has acme scratching their head & the only thing they can think of is the cupping doing when in theory my RPMs should have went up.  

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8 minutes ago, JeffC said:

Not sure it is even possible to answer this question but Ill try it anyway.  I have a '17 22 VLX on order (subject to test ride) with the 410 on a diamond hull.   For now, I will only have stock hard tanks.  My normal crew I expect to be 5-6, some days will be only 3, some days may be a full load (however I don't imagine I will ever have more than 8 and maybe a dog).  

I will run it primarily on Horsetooth reservoir (5430 elevation at full pool).   I will run it primarily for recreational waterskiing, and surfing.  My entire family will be beginner surfers.   I expect that early mornings will be skiing, and then a lot of surfing.   I slalom ski at 30-31mph.   I would guess our usage will be about 40% skiing, 50% surfing, and 10% wakeboarding.   

The dealer recommended the altitude/torque prop - 15 x 1425 2249, so that is what is on the order.    I have read up a bunch on size, pitch, and cup, but don't really yet understand how the interplay of those affects performance (I get the basics, but say changing cup and pitch together would affect it).   From what I have read, I THINK the 2249 is supposed to be a decent all around prop for this boat.  I THINK I should be able to surf and ski nicely with the 2249 despite the altitude.   But over time, I think we will do more surfing, and less skiing. 

The net of what I am wrestling with is this: 

  • Is the 2249 really the best choice for my all around usage at least in the short term (for example, until I start adding PNP bags)?
  • Sometime this summer, I will pick up a spare prop.   Assuming that my usage starts to shift to more surfing, seems like I should choose a prop that would be more optimized to surfing.    I don't mind swapping props occasionally to optimize performance to what I expect the day to be like, the size of my crew, or the amount of ballast I expect to have.   Seems like the OP suggestion of the 2943 might be interesting!

I spent a lot of time on the 410/450 thread - while I would have loved to outfit the boat with the 575, there was just no way I could get that in the budget, and the difference between the 410 and the 450 didn't seem to be worth the 6K+ that it was going to cost me, especially considering the 410 and 450 seem to have the same HP and torque curves to 3800 RPM.

I am still waiting for a ride in a 22 VLX at altitude, but have not been able to get weather and schedules to line up yet.

Any thoughts would be welcome...

It is going to come down too how much ballast you run, if you weight the boat evenly, etc.  I think you'll be fine if you run 2800-3200 pounds of ballast, any more than that I don't think that prop will be enough.  It is going to be very hard up in CO to find a prop that does all those things well without sacrificing something, IE less ballast weight or skiing at 28mph.

 

We should get together at Horse this summer, hang out in the cove

Edited by racer808
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18 minutes ago, racer808 said:

It is going to come down too how much ballast you run, if you weight the boat evenly, etc.  I think you'll be fine if you run 2800-3200 pounds of ballast, any more than that I don't think that prop will be enough.  It is going to be very hard up in CO to find a prop that does all those things well without sacrificing something, IE less ballast weight or skiing at 28mph.

 

We should get together at Horse this summer, hang out in the cove

Kind of what I was expecting... Hoping that at least in my first season will not have any significant issues as I learn to surf.  

I'm in for getting together this summer... The coves at Horsetooth are why I go there.  Pretty lake, but sure gets rough by mid morning on weekends.   With my old sterndrive, I just gave up by 9:30-10:00 and headed for the coves, or home.  We also head up to Carter sometimes on weeknights.   I can be on the water in 30 min after leaving the house.   Nice for an evening getaway, and is usually quiet on weekdays.

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19 minutes ago, racer808 said:

It is going to come down too how much ballast you run, if you weight the boat evenly, etc.  I think you'll be fine if you run 2800-3200 pounds of ballast, any more than that I don't think that prop will be enough.  It is going to be very hard up in CO to find a prop that does all those things well without sacrificing something, IE less ballast weight or skiing at 28mph.

 

We should get together at Horse this summer, hang out in the cove

I second Racer in this and the getting together and add that I spent countless hours with a fellow boat owner trying props and on the phone directly with Acme. We were able to dial in what we like on both sides in size, length, adjustability on our boats. The prop I am stoked on is solely surf in application. My friends only complaint when we found his prop and combined with 1000lbers in the rear of his 22ft Axis, he needs a bigger gas tank for his Monster..

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22 minutes ago, alpensurf23 said:

I second Racer in this and the getting together and add that I spent countless hours with a fellow boat owner trying props and on the phone directly with Acme. We were able to dial in what we like on both sides in size, length, adjustability on our boats. The prop I am stoked on is solely surf in application. My friends only complaint when we found his prop and combined with 1000lbers in the rear of his 22ft Axis, he needs a bigger gas tank for his Monster..

Yeah I burn a ton of fuel fully ballasted out & useing my GSA.  But the wave is so good with 5400 pounds

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29 minutes ago, JeffC said:

Kind of what I was expecting... Hoping that at least in my first season will not have any significant issues as I learn to surf.  

I'm in for getting together this summer... The coves at Horsetooth are why I go there.  Pretty lake, but sure gets rough by mid morning on weekends.   With my old sterndrive, I just gave up by 9:30-10:00 and headed for the coves, or home.  We also head up to Carter sometimes on weeknights.   I can be on the water in 30 min after leaving the house.   Nice for an evening getaway, and is usually quiet on weekdays.

We belong to a private lake but head to Horse a lot.  Mostly to party in the coves, if we go to session it's very early & then into the coves or just leave.  If you didn't like the chop out there with a deep V I/O you're going to hate it out there in your VLX when it gets rough.  I have had killer evening sessions at horse in the past, but it seems to get more & more crowded every year at all hours.  I guess all our lakes around here have gotten stupid crowded though.  I love life on the private lake, hopefully we don't run out of water this year

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58 minutes ago, racer808 said:

We belong to a private lake but head to Horse a lot.  Mostly to party in the coves, if we go to session it's very early & then into the coves or just leave.  If you didn't like the chop out there with a deep V I/O you're going to hate it out there in your VLX when it gets rough.  I have had killer evening sessions at horse in the past, but it seems to get more & more crowded every year at all hours.  I guess all our lakes around here have gotten stupid crowded though.  I love life on the private lake, hopefully we don't run out of water this year

Hopefully the snow keeps up in the mountains... 150% of average is a nice number.   Looks like Horsetooth is about 7' higher than same time last year.    Would love to find a private lake close to me.   I agree, lakes here are way too crowded.  I am hoping to have more time this year during the week, maybe that will be better.

I am hoping the VLX will be similar (or maybe better) than my I/O.   It was a Crownline 182... got beat to death in that little boat.  

 @alpensurf23 I hope I am ready for the gas burn.   The Crownline would burn MAYBE 4 GPH on watersports last year (5.7L, mostly skiing)   Mentally I am ready for more than double that with the VLX.  Whether my wallet is ready for that is yet to be seen...

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33 minutes ago, JeffC said:

Hopefully the snow keeps up in the mountains... 150% of average is a nice number.   Looks like Horsetooth is about 7' higher than same time last year.    Would love to find a private lake close to me.   I agree, lakes here are way too crowded.  I am hoping to have more time this year during the week, maybe that will be better.

I am hoping the VLX will be similar (or maybe better) than my I/O.   It was a Crownline 182... got beat to death in that little boat.  

 @alpensurf23 I hope I am ready for the gas burn.   The Crownline would burn MAYBE 4 GPH on watersports last year (5.7L, mostly skiing)   Mentally I am ready for more than double that with the VLX.  Whether my wallet is ready for that is yet to be seen...

You'll be more like 6-8 gallons an hour.  I've never actually monitored my fuel but fully ballasted out I am burning 8-10 gallons an hour

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1 hour ago, racer808 said:

You'll be more like 6-8 gallons an hour.  I've never actually monitored my fuel but fully ballasted out I am burning 8-10 gallons an hour

A tank a day keeps the doctor away!

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8 minutes ago, racer808 said:

I figure we do about 30-40 gallons in a 4-5 hour session.  How much weight are you running?

Factory Max plus WakeMakers custom 820s plug n play. Those bags are heavier than 820..

Edited by alpensurf23
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29 minutes ago, alpensurf23 said:

Factory Max plus WakeMakers custom 820s plug n play. Those bags are heavier than 820..

Do you stand up to drive at 10.8 mph and no additional bow weight???

Edited by thtrog
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1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

@alpensurf23 do you have any "regular" pictures (shot from the boat, not super low or from the side)?

:rofl: only you Shawndoggy... your definition of regular leaves even more to be questioned, all cell phones photo different is one example, location in boat because believe me all were shot with in boat, one of the rare times Im not behind the wheel. Gotta love ladies day.

IMG_4827.jpg

 

IMG_4126.jpg

Edited by alpensurf23
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1 hour ago, nzone said:

HorseTooth - We are renting two cabins at horsetooth  for the weekend of 4/29.  Hopefully warm enough to surf behind our mxz24. 80 gallons helps!

 

Rod

 

Bring wetsuits, horse is a deep lake & the water will be in the mid 50's to 60's unless we have an unusually warm spring

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1 hour ago, alpensurf23 said:

:rofl: only you Shawndoggy... your definition of regular leaves even more to be questioned, all cell phones photo different is one example, location in boat because believe me all were shot with in boat, one of the rare times Im not behind the wheel. Gotta love ladies day.

IMG_4827.jpg

 

IMG_4126.jpg

Note the captain is sitting, then demonstrating her mad guitar skills!

Edited by alpensurf23
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1 hour ago, alpensurf23 said:

:rofl: only you Shawndoggy... your definition of regular leaves even more to be questioned, all cell phones photo different is one example, location in boat because believe me all were shot with in boat, one of the rare times Im not behind the wheel. Gotta love ladies day.

IMG_4827.jpg

That's what I'm talking about!  Wave looks good.  Me, I really like to see pics from the "back" of the wave to see the length, because I'm a long wave guy.  I know others like shorter / taller waves.  the in the boat shooting angle gives a good perspective, though, of the wave from boat to boat (even if not the best portrayal of the actual wave from the rider's angle).

 

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